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Guardian dps irrelevant?

IVAchillesVI's Avatar


IVAchillesVI
02.22.2013 , 01:11 PM | #1
After looking at many different peoples characters in progression runs I have begun to wonder if guardian dps is becoming irrelevant. Before you get your panties in a bunch I want you to hear my thoughts behind this. In a progression run it always nice to have ranged dps, for obvious reasons (they avoid aoe's). Its also nice to have atleast 1 or 2 sentinels for their massive dmg output as well as utility (via inspiration). With all that taken into account, where do you think guardians fall in progression runs as well as the hardest ops?

Tarurelm's Avatar


Tarurelm
02.24.2013 , 04:39 AM | #2
Guardians bring quite a few things to the table. Our Sunder armor debuff is pretty sweet, 20% armor debuff, in 2.0 is way too easy to maintain which increases raid wide dps. The ability to off tank in a dire situation if needed, swapping to Soresu form with a taunt, to get a fallen tank up. Guardian leap decreases threat and gives a slight defensive buff to a team mate if they grab aggro on accident. Guardian dps is now on par with Sentinal dps, and from what I've seen in 2.0 and even in 1.7, can out dps most Sents. Guardians also take less damage than Sentinals due to their Heavy armor, therefore aleviating some pressure off the healers.
How is that?
Giggle Crits@ The Harbinger
-DPS Vigilance Guardian- Täru Relm
-Sage Heals- Va'shh
-Sorcerer Heals- Nihk

JamieKirby's Avatar


JamieKirby
02.24.2013 , 05:20 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Tarurelm View Post
Guardians bring quite a few things to the table. Our Sunder armor debuff is pretty sweet, 20% armor debuff, in 2.0 is way too easy to maintain which increases raid wide dps. The ability to off tank in a dire situation if needed, swapping to Soresu form with a taunt, to get a fallen tank up. Guardian leap decreases threat and gives a slight defensive buff to a team mate if they grab aggro on accident. Guardian dps is now on par with Sentinal dps, and from what I've seen in 2.0 and even in 1.7, can out dps most Sents. Guardians also take less damage than Sentinals due to their Heavy armor, therefore aleviating some pressure off the healers.
How is that?
Believe it or not, the difference between medium armour and heavy armour is only like 5% or something, also, the damage boost, i think is only at endgame, it would seem that, guardians and juggernauts will still need to use their healer companion when they gain them for far less down time.

If that is the case, the moment 2.0 goes live, i will be rolling a sith warrior or jedi knight for it to be my main, but right now, doing dailies without the healer companion is VERY difficult, which it honestly shouldn't be, companions should gear up automatically to be honest.

banehammer's Avatar


banehammer
02.24.2013 , 06:10 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Tarurelm View Post
Guardians bring quite a few things to the table. Our Sunder armor debuff is pretty sweet, 20% armor debuff, in 2.0 is way too easy to maintain which increases raid wide dps. The ability to off tank in a dire situation if needed, swapping to Soresu form with a taunt, to get a fallen tank up. Guardian leap decreases threat and gives a slight defensive buff to a team mate if they grab aggro on accident. Guardian dps is now on par with Sentinal dps, and from what I've seen in 2.0 and even in 1.7, can out dps most Sents. Guardians also take less damage than Sentinals due to their Heavy armor, therefore aleviating some pressure off the healers.
How is that?
^^ Thats what I love to hear
Endoor | Guardian Jedi's have grenades now
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HARBRINGER

Tarurelm's Avatar


Tarurelm
02.24.2013 , 07:46 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by JamieKirby View Post
Believe it or not, the difference between medium armour and heavy armour is only like 5% or something, also, the damage boost, i think is only at endgame, it would seem that, guardians and juggernauts will still need to use their healer companion when they gain them for far less down time.

If that is the case, the moment 2.0 goes live, i will be rolling a sith warrior or jedi knight for it to be my main, but right now, doing dailies without the healer companion is VERY difficult, which it honestly shouldn't be, companions should gear up automatically to be honest.
I always have SGT Rusk, rDPS companion, running with me while I run my dailys and the Gree event. Yah, its a little easier running with Doc, our healer, but I never find myself on the verge of death at anytime.

Also, the damage boost isn't avaliable only at endgame. Not sure I understand what you're talking about, but if you are referring to the Sunder Armor debuff, 20% debuff effects all mobs, therefore it always benifits dps even solo, especially fighting elites and champions.
Giggle Crits@ The Harbinger
-DPS Vigilance Guardian- Täru Relm
-Sage Heals- Va'shh
-Sorcerer Heals- Nihk

Draqsko's Avatar


Draqsko
02.27.2013 , 05:44 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by IVAchillesVI View Post
After looking at many different peoples characters in progression runs I have begun to wonder if guardian dps is becoming irrelevant. Before you get your panties in a bunch I want you to hear my thoughts behind this. In a progression run it always nice to have ranged dps, for obvious reasons (they avoid aoe's). Its also nice to have atleast 1 or 2 sentinels for their massive dmg output as well as utility (via inspiration). With all that taken into account, where do you think guardians fall in progression runs as well as the hardest ops?
Well considering we're running progression on TFB HM, in black hole/campaign except 1 rakata armoring on my belt, and rakata hilt in my saber (it's very expensive on my server to GTN a might hilt 27), I am regularly the first or second DPS on the parse. In fact I cut back my DPS to open a boss fight cause tanks have aggro issues if I go all out (but sometimes I like to make them work for their aggro, shh don't tell them).

My build is Vigilance, so it's really a great single target burst DPS, and I can regularly keep pace with Commandos, and Slingers quite easily. Generally if there's a target that needs to go down fast (Trandoshan warriors on Kephess, Jealous Male on Writhing Horror, Datacores on Operator IX, etc.) I get stuck on it by the raid leader because I can throw, leap in, sunder and start hitting with every major attack. I kill the Warriors and Jealous Male solo, but me and sent burn the Datacores ourselves. If you can, get teamed up with a Combat Sent, your debuffs will aid each other's damage alot.

Any guild that thinks you can't be a good DPS as Vigilance clearly has no idea about their capabilities. Do we have to move alot, sure, but by the time you actually get to EC HM or TFB HM you should be used to that and know how to work your skills to have everything ready to hit when you can get back on target. 2.0 looks like it will improve the QOL of Vig as well, yeah we lose a little bit with Force Rush, but Keening will help with our DoTs (mine do 20% of my total damage output over the course of a boss fight), and proc Dispatches sooner, possibly even above 30% hp mark, plus the changes to Sunder will be a welcome addition, being able to open a fight with full Sunder on a target without wasting a GCD before Master Strike after a leap. I cannot see Vig Guardian ever being considered irrelevant given the incredible burst we can open with and sustain.

CJAShadow's Avatar


CJAShadow
02.28.2013 , 01:19 AM | #7
Its good, not superb like sent dps but is still good. Vigilance is great and honestly, not that hard to dps with. You can pay more attention to your group and manage stuff in the fights easier.

I pull at the beginning often too when I completely open.
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Draqsko's Avatar


Draqsko
02.28.2013 , 07:55 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by CJAShadow View Post
Its good, not superb like sent dps but is still good. Vigilance is great and honestly, not that hard to dps with. You can pay more attention to your group and manage stuff in the fights easier.

I pull at the beginning often too when I completely open.
There's one thing we can do that a sentinel can never do too.. Replace a tank albeit temporarily. On fights like Toth and Zorn, or Firebrand and Stormcaller, because of tank swapping mechanics usually the two tanks are 1 and 2 on the aggro tables. So if one tank goes down, both bosses will be on one tank. This is very bad and usually results in 2 dead tanks. But a Vig guardian can pop a taunt, hit saber ward, and soresu form, and usually last long enough to get the dead tank back up, buffed, healed, and back into the fight. No sentinel can do that, even with their "superior" defensive cooldowns. With Saber Reflect coming, we'll be even more capable in this regard.