pop hold the line, strafe away from them. i dont usually pop my defensive cooldowns against a vengeance jugg; there are too many instances where you run into them and in the majority of situations you wont have your cooldowns. make ample use of kolto bomb in that situation too.

after 4s, if you want to fully disengage them hit them w/ stockstrike (root) and then immediately use conc charge. if you do it right you wont break the root, and you just bought yourself 3s of additional time to increase the gap. i do this when i want to run away from someone.

kite them for the 4s, and then knockback/stun

Just let me add one thing here:

"kite them for the 4s, and then knockback/stun with electro net on them!"

There... they lose a bunch of HP and while you kite them with the net you can still do more damage.

Just let me add one thing here:

 

"kite them for the 4s, and then knockback/stun with electro net on them!"

 

There... they lose a bunch of HP and while you kite them with the net you can still do more damage.

imo you dont want to be wasting electronet on a DPSer. if you are totally alone and you need to win the fight (solo guarding perhaps, but commando should really be doing that anyways) then id say maybe use it.

you want electronet available for when youre bursting down a healer imo. stop that op from cloaking out/scampering away, or that sorc from using force run or force barrier.

Can also cleanse the dots

It's the opener that OP having problem with. Best thing I can say is HtL and hope he doesn't push u after the cleanse is nice too, just gotta make sure u cleanse the not crappy dot

imo you dont want to be wasting electronet on a DPSer. if you are totally alone and you need to win the fight (solo guarding perhaps, but commando should really be doing that anyways) then id say maybe use it.

 

you want electronet available for when youre bursting down a healer imo. stop that op from cloaking out/scampering away, or that sorc from using force run or force barrier.

B-but random warzones are not about coordinated teamplay! They're about isolated skirmishes, ambushes and random duels! You aren't supposed to save up your strongest mechanics to help your "team"! You're supposed to use them to kill that Warrior that thinks you're easy prey!

P.S. Only being half-ironic, because I'm guilty of that myself when I'm running pug warzoens my Commando. PuG people just rarely capitalize on the E-net advantage, even when timed reasonably well, and I find myself using it to smack down that geared cocky guy who comes at me hoping for an easy kill.

B-but random warzones are not about coordinated teamplay! They're about isolated skirmishes, ambushes and random duels! You aren't supposed to save up your strongest mechanics to help your "team"! You're supposed to use them to kill that Warrior that thinks you're easy prey!

 

P.S. Only being half-ironic, because I'm guilty of that myself when I'm running pug warzoens my Commando. PuG people just rarely capitalize on the E-net advantage, even when timed reasonably well, and I find myself using it to smack down that geared cocky guy who comes at me hoping for an easy kill.

i will use it in 1v1ish fights where someone just wont leave me alone. ive kited a warrior around for a solid 2 minutes before, all the while attacking his teammates. he never once thought to maybe attack the guy healing me. its like being a commando makes warriors/knights see red; they assume youre just an easy kill and will pursue it at the cost of all objectives.

the downside to this is that this is the same kind of player who will make it his sole mission in life to stalk you if you beat him 1v1. i hate those kind of players :|

kite them for the 4s, and then knockback/stun

The problem is that you can't kite them initially since in all probability you are rooted from the Vengeance Jugg Force Leap. And even when that root is off, you still can't kite them since they have Unstoppable and move as fast as you do. This is the problem with this subclass and to a lesser extent with Jugg tanks. The key strength of the Arsenal Merc is that he can very rapidly jujitsu an enemy melee that leaps to them by using RocketPunch/JetBoost combined with HO. However the Vengeance Jugg completely negates that tactic. You basically are going to eat 4 sec of their damage and if they follow up with Force Push, you can double that vulnerability window. In a 1v1 situation, I think your best bet is to pop your defensive cooldowns. The problem is that if you do this is a group fight, the Jugg will simply leap to a different target and you've wasted your defensive CDs.

i will use it in 1v1ish fights where someone just wont leave me alone. ive kited a warrior around for a solid 2 minutes before, all the while attacking his teammates. he never once thought to maybe attack the guy healing me. its like being a commando makes warriors/knights see red; they assume youre just an easy kill and will pursue it at the cost of all objectives.

 

the downside to this is that this is the same kind of player who will make it his sole mission in life to stalk you if you beat him 1v1. i hate those kind of players :|

Don't see a problem here. There would be a problem if you're melee (fewer options for tactical positioning in the fight), but as ranged, you can LoS ranged stalkers, position yourself to make it harder for melee stalkers (granted, good stealthers can be a pain, but if you play stealth yourself and know how they think, they're easier to deal with).

And there is, of course, the sweetest thing. You catch your stalker attacking someone else - you blow them up. The more they get worked up, the less they care about their own safety, the more tunnel-visioned they become, the more hilarious it gets.

Dìomedes - Vengeance Juggernaut

wait what?

wait what?

As the OP I left this game about 6 months ago. Sometime after Denova came out. I played a Vengeance/Immortal Jugg. When I came back, my guild was defunct and I made a Commando as my main.

A little update: Since the original post I've played around with using Hold the Line, Reactive Shield, and cleanse. I didn't know you could cleanse the dot. If I use all of them while kiting, I can do good damage while creating a bit of space. I've also realized that when they charge they have a triangular orange shield on them, that tells me its veng and not immortal. I still have 2 problems:

1. Doing damage on the run. As of right now I've been chucking my sticky grenade, explosive round and hammer shot. The problem is, this doesn't do great damage and I run out of energy cells.

2. Another problem, is after I hit hold the line to kite the first charge, I'd say 7 times out of 10 I get pushed and charge again. This I have no answer for because I am rooted. By the time the root is up I'm in between 25%-40% life depending. I've been trying to Shockstrike and kite but I get force screamed and saber thrown and that usually finishes me off.

I still have 2 problems:

 

1. Doing damage on the run. As of right now I've been chucking my sticky grenade, explosive round and hammer shot. The problem is, this doesn't do great damage and I run out of energy cells.

Never ever use Explosive Round, unless you're interrupting objectives with its splash damage, or you have massive Ammo overflow. All the damage on the run you need is the Tech Override Grav=>Demo=>HiB=>TO Grav with procced full autos and stickies mixed in.

2. Another problem, is after I hit hold the line to kite the first charge, I'd say 7 times out of 10 I get pushed and charge again. This I have no answer for because I am rooted. By the time the root is up I'm in between 25%-40% life depending. I've been trying to Shockstrike and kite but I get force screamed and saber thrown and that usually finishes me off.

You have Hold the Line. Use it to run out of Ravage range when you're charge-rooted. When he's Unstoppable and he uses the charge-push-charge combo you can tank it with your shield cooldown.

Fighting Warriors is about matching mechanic for mechanic, even if they don't counter eachother directly. You have the TO combo to do mobile damage which is very nice to use with hold the line and stockstrike root. You have a 4-sec hard stun. You have your shield cooldown (Stack with WZ adrenal+medpack for when you have no other choice but to eat massive damage). You have Electronet for when you know he has Charge ready. You have Concussive Round, which you can use on him with TO to wait out his Blade Ward, if the fight is not too thick - you can heal up, too. You have talented Diversion for eating an extra Shatter or Force Scream. You have (the sucky) Adrenaline Rush (that will not save you in execute range, but might buy you an extra shot).

He has his big 3-min Blade Ward cooldown. He has Reflect. He has Unstoppable=>Push=>Unstoppable combo, he has Endure Pain+Adrenal+Medpack for a final push, he has Enraged Defense for general-purpose mitigation, he has 10-meter choke (uses it either to interrupt you, or to wait out his big brust cooldowns), and he has an AoE mez (same purpose, but he can't really use it because of his DoTs, aside interrupting).

Just keep practicing. Play your Juggernaut, get the hang of its pacing and you'll be able to counter it. You don't have to use skills perfectly, or even reasonably well. You just use them and, with practise, they will click into place. Your fingers will remember the buttons, your brain will develop reflexes and stimulus responses. Keep practising and you'll be able to stand up to anybody.

Never ever use Explosive Round, unless you're interrupting objectives with its splash damage, or you have massive Ammo overflow. All the damage on the run you need is the Tech Override Grav=>Demo=>HiB=>TO Grav with procced full autos and stickies mixed in.

 

You have Hold the Line. Use it to run out of Ravage range when you're charge-rooted. When he's Unstoppable and he uses the charge-push-charge combo you can tank it with your shield cooldown.

 

Fighting Warriors is about matching mechanic for mechanic, even if they don't counter eachother directly. You have the TO combo to do mobile damage which is very nice to use with hold the line and stockstrike root. You have a 4-sec hard stun. You have your shield cooldown (Stack with WZ adrenal+medpack for when you have no other choice but to eat massive damage). You have Electronet for when you know he has Charge ready. You have Concussive Round, which you can use on him with TO to wait out his Blade Ward, if the fight is not too thick - you can heal up, too. You have talented Diversion for eating an extra Shatter or Force Scream. You have (the sucky) Adrenaline Rush (that will not save you in execute range, but might buy you an extra shot).

 

He has his big 3-min Blade Ward cooldown. He has Reflect. He has Unstoppable=>Push=>Unstoppable combo, he has Endure Pain+Adrenal+Medpack for a final push, he has Enraged Defense for general-purpose mitigation, he has 10-meter choke (uses it either to interrupt you, or to wait out his big brust cooldowns), and he has an AoE mez (same purpose, but he can't really use it because of his DoTs, aside interrupting).

 

Just keep practicing. Play your Juggernaut, get the hang of its pacing and you'll be able to counter it. You don't have to use skills perfectly, or even reasonably well. You just use them and, with practise, they will click into place. Your fingers will remember the buttons, your brain will develop reflexes and stimulus responses. Keep practising and you'll be able to stand up to anybody.

This was really informative, thank you. I'm also only level 40 so I don't have tech override or Electro net yet. Although I've leveled through Warzones so I know exactly what you are saying. Does blade ward have a visual cue like Unstoppable does?

This was really informative, thank you. I'm also only level 40 so I don't have tech override or Electro net yet. Although I've leveled through Warzones so I know exactly what you are saying. Does blade ward have a visual cue like Unstoppable does?

Yup. Blade Ward is a big transparent shimmering red "bubble" around the Warrior (blue for Knight). Also, the character does a fancy martial arts-like flourish when he activates that skill. You have a Juggernaut yourself, just use the skill and see what it looks like. You don't have to be in combat for that. Reflect is intense light red shimmer on the character model.

Go get'em, tiger

The problem is that you can't kite them initially since in all probability you are rooted from the Vengeance Jugg Force Leap. And even when that root is off, you still can't kite them since they have Unstoppable and move as fast as you do. This is the problem with this subclass and to a lesser extent with Jugg tanks. The key strength of the Arsenal Merc is that he can very rapidly jujitsu an enemy melee that leaps to them by using RocketPunch/JetBoost combined with HO. However the Vengeance Jugg completely negates that tactic. You basically are going to eat 4 sec of their damage and if they follow up with Force Push, you can double that vulnerability window. In a 1v1 situation, I think your best bet is to pop your defensive cooldowns. The problem is that if you do this is a group fight, the Jugg will simply leap to a different target and you've wasted your defensive CDs.

i use hold the line when a veng jugg charges at me. solves all those problems. wait 4s, then stock strike -> conc charge to create tons of distance and root.

It's extremely easy to avoid their leap + unstoppable + ravage combo with Hold the Line.

Even with Hold the Line/HO, the enemy melee can stay within 10m range for 2 GCDs. And then Intimidating Roar (followed by Force Choke if the Merc/Trooper uses his cc breaker). At this point Hold the Line will be off and the Jugg can use Force Push, Force Leap, Ravage. So no, Hold the Line/HO does NOT prevent a good Vengeance Jugg from teeing off on you. You don't see many Vengeance Juggs use their Intimidating Scream vs. ranged attackers, but that's solely because crappy melee outnumber good melee.

A good trooper has a 10s HTL and a 15s wait after it finishes to use it again for a 40% uptime.

If you anticipate a leaper, pop HTL and run in ANY direction the leaper will burn their leaps for nothing.

Leaps jump to a map point not a player.

Leaps root you to allow the travelling leaper time to fly through the air and be on you.

HTL prevents all physics, roots and snares from happening and (effectively) allows out-of-combat sprint speed while in combat.

The result? You are well away and these players are jumping to the empty spot where you were, often smashing thin air and you are now in a good position to deal with that melee who just burnt their leap (might even burn two leaps on you).

If the Unstoppable gets the jump on you (hur hur) then it's instant defensive CD and pop HTL to destroy their Force Push setting you up for another leap.

Something melee can't do much about is that Diversion (aggro drop) in Gunnery spec causes the next direct hit (not a DoT) to hit for 0. As good as a heal when a DPS Jugg chokes you because they're not going to use a miserable default attack when that stun wears off. You hammer Diversion and it'll be up before their attack hits. For 0.

The new Commando is far tougher than the pre-2.0 version, it has suitable tools vs any other spec and if only stealth scan wasn't so crap (gee lets fish for a stealth class with a small AOE that they can see...) it would be good against anything.

A good trooper has a 10s HTL and a 15s wait after it finishes to use it again for a 40% uptime.

 

If you anticipate a leaper, pop HTL and run in ANY direction the leaper will burn their leaps for nothing.

 

Leaps jump to a map point not a player.

Leaps root you to allow the travelling leaper time to fly through the air and be on you.

HTL prevents all physics, roots and snares from happening and (effectively) allows out-of-combat sprint speed while in combat.

 

The result? You are well away and these players are jumping to the empty spot where you were, often smashing thin air and you are now in a good position to deal with that melee who just burnt their leap (might even burn two leaps on you).

 

If the Unstoppable gets the jump on you (hur hur) then it's instant defensive CD and pop HTL to destroy their Force Push setting you up for another leap.

 

Something melee can't do much about is that Diversion (aggro drop) in Gunnery spec causes the next direct hit (not a DoT) to hit for 0. As good as a heal when a DPS Jugg chokes you because they're not going to use a miserable default attack when that stun wears off. You hammer Diversion and it'll be up before their attack hits. For 0.

 

The new Commando is far tougher than the pre-2.0 version, it has suitable tools vs any other spec and if only stealth scan wasn't so crap (gee lets fish for a stealth class with a small AOE that they can see...) it would be good against anything.

I like this approach. I dusted off my old Juggy and played a bunch of WZs and paid attention to what troopers were doing. I would say 1 out of every 5 played this way. Most of the time I rocked them, some of the time they got confused for a couple of seconds when I didn't go away when they concussion charged me. The ones that did play smart, it was much tougher to kill them, and it was usually a 50/50 kill. I actually remember switching targets on 1 or 2 of them because they were so far away when I charged.