I have this question about the hybrids build for all classes...

When i read the patch notes of the PTS and read again, it appears that hybrid builds will not be viable anymore, maybe the nerf of those builds are for that.. i'm not sure, but some threads in this forums are taking about that.

some one can clarify me that...

I have this question about the hybrids build for all classes...

When i read the patch notes of the PTS and read again, it appears that hybrid builds will not be viable anymore, maybe the nerf of those builds are for that.. i'm not sure, but some threads in this forums are taking about that.

 

some one can clarify me that...

 

 

sorry for my english u.ú

Well, its never been Biowares policy to have Hybrid specs outdoing 31 point trees. We saw that when the Shadows hybrid spec was nerfed way back. And we see it now again.

The first rule about hybrids is: YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT HYBRIDS

Voicing my general opinion about hybrid IA for pve on a pts thread got the thread closed in no time.

It's a tough line to walk. They have to make the full tree attractive first, so that the tree has worth as a full tree. Whether or not hybrids work is up to them but that's more optional I think. Some hybrid builds were probably unintentionally powerful (hard to know) and certainly more powerful than the full trees (sorc hybrid madness vs full madness or full lit).

The real question is whether or not they want hybrids to be possible to co-exist or if they'll take the WOW route and squash it flat. I can understand you don't want a hybrid to be 'the best' but I don't know why it can't still be 'a good option'.

There's a noticeable pattern from testing through the 1.2 notes of Bioware becoming increasingly hostile to hybrids. On a few occasions they claim it was "because players wanted it" but mostly it seems to be an inability/unwillingness on Bioware's part.

There may be very good reasons to eliminated hybrids (itemization, balancing, simplifying the game for inexperienced players, etc) but I'd say yes, hybrids are being actively squashed by Bioware.

I understand now why they dind't touch shadow's Trees...

They were already touched before 1.2. This is why they weren't revisited much. Their dps/tank hybrid capacity was specifically targeted. So I can't really see what it is you understand.

It's a tough line to walk. They have to make the full tree attractive first, so that the tree has worth as a full tree. Whether or not hybrids work is up to them but that's more optional I think. Some hybrid builds were probably unintentionally powerful (hard to know) and certainly more powerful than the full trees (sorc hybrid madness vs full madness or full lit).

 

The real question is whether or not they want hybrids to be possible to co-exist or if they'll take the WOW route and squash it flat. I can understand you don't want a hybrid to be 'the best' but I don't know why it can't still be 'a good option'.

It's mostly because it's a very delicate balancing act. Hybrids can very easily become overpowered because they have the freedom to cherry pick talents at their leisure from all the trees.

Well, its never been Biowares policy to have Hybrid specs outdoing 31 point trees. We saw that when the Shadows hybrid spec was nerfed way back. And we see it now again.

It's a tough line to walk. They have to make the full tree attractive first, so that the tree has worth as a full tree.

There's a noticeable pattern from testing through the 1.2 notes of Bioware becoming increasingly hostile to hybrids. On a few occasions they claim it was "because players wanted it" but mostly it seems to be an inability/unwillingness on Bioware's part.

BW using the "because players wanted it" excuse is lame; I heard they used it before in regards to moddable gear, saying something along the lines of "players didn't like moddable gear because they didn't feel like they were progressing when their boot graphics didn't change for X levels." So either they're idiots for targeting their game towards idiots, or they're just being ******es and designing out of spite.

Should be a good laugh when the entire forums escalate into a full blown uproar when the patch releases (as if that wasn't going to happen already).

They were already touched before 1.2. This is why they weren't revisited much. Their dps/tank hybrid capacity was specifically targeted. So I can't really see what it is you understand.

Im talking about 1.2... i understand why in 1.2 dont touch shadows, because they already did it

Some players wear being pigeonholed as a badge of honor. I was just reading a comment in the juggernaut forum from a guy who displayed irrational vehemence against hybrid specs; the only conclusion I can draw is that he feels his arbitrarily chosen "pure" spec is better, like this was some sort of spec war.

There is a vocal minority of players who are primarily concerned with hardcore endgame raiding that trumpet loudly that specialization=efficiency. Of course they are the same ones that ignore leveling builds, laugh at anyone who has to PUG, and whine if the best gear isn't all dropped from raiding. They are also a small portion of the gaming population and nowhere near large enough to sustain a game.

BW using the "because players wanted it" excuse is lame; I heard they used it before in regards to moddable gear, saying something along the lines of "players didn't like moddable gear because they didn't feel like they were progressing when their boot graphics didn't change for X levels." So either they're idiots for targeting their game towards idiots, or they're just being ******es and designing out of spite.

My guess is Bioware thinks that rigidly defined roles for trees is a service to players who can't think for themselves. They want to make specing easy for us, whether we like it or not.

Specing should be easy.

When I have to go to a 3rd party webiste to figure out how the "best" spec my character there is an issue.

Any skill I put points in should offer bennefit and be more a matter of playstyle rather than "math nerd says this is best". (yeah, I am one of those math nerds)

I Would rather spend my time playing and enjoying the game and not number crunching to figure out what provides another 0.0008% boost in my DPS output.

I personally think for myself and can't stand all the "oh are you going with the jim crow assassin" build etc etc etc BS. However that's fine other people enjoy being unoriginal and as previously stated intelligent enough to make up their own minds when putting points into skills...

All that said, I must say I also think this makes 0 sense to me considering, how crappy the top tier abilities are on my defense skill tree...if the move was worth investing in I would do it. But in my defense skill I'd prefer not wasting my points in order to get one instant attack I personally feel is not as helpful as the buffs from another skill tree...

Specing should be easy.

When I have to go to a 3rd party webiste to figure out how the "best" spec my character there is an issue.

 

Any skill I put points in should offer benefit and be more a matter of playstyle rather than "math nerd says this is best". (yeah, I am one of those math nerds)

 

I Would rather spend my time playing and enjoying the game and not number crunching to figure out what provides another 0.0008% boost in my DPS output.

I agree....but there's nothing about that statement that precludes the ability to pick and choose talents from 2 or more trees to craft a playstyle you want, and for that playstyle to be as viable as any other. It's a decision decision to force 3 rigidly distinct playstyles on players. I'm admittedly overstating things a bit, as hybrids will probably still be viable for leveling, but endgame is totally directed.

Specing should be easy.

When I have to go to a 3rd party webiste to figure out how the "best" spec my character there is an issue.

 

Any skill I put points in should offer bennefit and be more a matter of playstyle rather than "math nerd says this is best". (yeah, I am one of those math nerds)

 

I Would rather spend my time playing and enjoying the game and not number crunching to figure out what provides another 0.0008% boost in my DPS output.

So you'd rather this become the new WOW with 9 total talents that just give you new fluff abilities?

Great.

edit for those not following WOW lately: that is precisely their argument and solution for the old 31 point (and even larger) trees. They felt that talents were "too confusing" for the average player, so dumbed it down so much that now there's no point in picking up any at all in their next expac.

Well, its never been Biowares policy to have Hybrid specs outdoing 31 point trees. We saw that when the Shadows hybrid spec was nerfed way back. And we see it now again.

That never part is what boggles me. Why BW doesn't consider implementing a more modern approach, like WoW is doing for MoP, and only allowing players to choose a tree and then talents are already set on stone. It seems a superior implementation that benefits the majority of the playerbase because there's very little room for making mistakes when choosing where to spend talent points. And it would add sense to when players refer to their specs as a classes: Hey I am a Madness Inquisitor! Cool.

That never part is what boggles me. Why BW doesn't consider implementing a more modern approach, like WoW is doing for MoP, and only allowing players to choose a tree and then talents are already set on stone. It seems a superior implementation that benefits the majority of the playerbase because there's very little room for making mistakes when choosing where to spend talent points. And it would add sense to when players refer to their specs as a classes: Hey I am a Madness Inquisitor! Cool.

Pretty much why I quit and am never going back to that game. Would prefer that stupidity doesn't follow me. Course, I guess it's expected if their "average playerbase" did.

Having talents in a class based game always creates tension. By definition a class is defined by a particular skill set, but talents are supposed to allow differences within a class for different players to choose different skills. People (players and maybe Devs alike) are just finally seeing past the facade of "talents" and realizing that the sense of choice is mostly illusory. It sucks, but it's true.

Before people howl, I'm not sure a skill based game is necessarily any better. People will always min/max (aka theorycraft) an "ideal build" for a given role.

Before people howl, I'm not sure a skill based game is necessarily any better. People will always min/max (aka theorycraft) an "ideal build" for a given role.

Right with all the possibilities in SWG (or even UO) the good pvpers all used slight variations of identical builds for the most part. It exists in any form, you can choose to play along or ignore that facet of it.

That never part is what boggles me. Why BW doesn't consider implementing a more modern approach, like WoW is doing for MoP, and only allowing players to choose a tree and then talents are already set on stone. It seems a superior implementation that benefits the majority of the playerbase because there's very little room for making mistakes when choosing where to spend talent points. And it would add sense to when players refer to their specs as a classes: Hey I am a Madness Inquisitor! Cool.

It cost blizz my sub (not that it matters but it`s a fact), cata forced streamlined specs, MoP destroys every form of uniqueness for characters, for me cookie cutting is part of the fun in endgame, I`d miss it in TOR.