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DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
09.21.2018 , 12:03 PM | #41
Kazz Devlin, I totally agree with you 150%. Your posts are my thoughts exactly and I think KendraP should apply for a job int he dev team as the totally thinks and sees class balance the way they do. I think I've already mentioned this in other theads some time ago.

Yes, Kendra, sadly in PVP there are I WIN classes and Sin DPS isn't one of them. The developer team has no clue about what needs to be done, but DPS with guards needs to go and DPS with self heals and " another life" abilities need to have lesser DPS than classes with almost non existent self heals. it's logical, yet in this game.. we have another life classes + their insane DPS.
The only advantage SIn DPS has over jugg is stealth, in every other aspect the Jugg is much better.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.21.2018 , 12:47 PM | #42
And if you actually bothered reading my posts, i was resenting to the characterization of juggies as being LIKE MERCS which they in no way are. The best melee dps class is without a doubt a fury mara which is what i have been saying this whole time.

But i get it, reading is difficult.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.23.2018 , 06:18 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
And if you actually bothered reading my posts, i was resenting to the characterization of juggies as being LIKE MERCS which they in no way are. The best melee dps class is without a doubt a fury mara which is what i have been saying this whole time.

But i get it, reading is difficult.
Apparently so is comprehend what you read, I'm not convinced you do! You sure as heck don't grasp the meaning of "being LIKE MERCS which they in no way are"

Jugs reflect<----------> Mercs Reflect
Jugs Heal on dmg <--------------->Mercs Heal on damage
Jugs Mad dash <-------------->Rocket out

There is three ways right there that jugs ar LIKE MERC's bud! Those three ways also extend your life at least 1.5 times! Yet you keep ignoring it saying "It doesn't matter in multiple combat i get melted! Well guess what sins gets melted faster than jug does so that comparison doesn't wash.

If jugs would accept the fact that DPS burst is suppose to be a glass cannon spec and thus go out do huge dmg and then die we might get some where. Instead you just keep keep pointing to merc's and sniper and saying were not like them! Yet you are, no not to their extent but your dmg output to Time to Death is to high! To be fair Merc and sniper's Time to Death is WAY WAY TO HIGH!

Yeah, I know, I know each class is better at some stuff than others argument! That is bull dookey! This is exactly how the dev's think and it is exactly why PVP dies. By doing it that way you in effect create weight classes. Which would be fine if this was MMA or boxing; and what would happen if a heavy weight went against a light weight or feather weight who do you think the odds of winning would be placed on? While having an upset is plausible how many of them would end up as Heavy weight being the victor? What would happen to the moral of those fighting in the lightweight classes? Would this not have the effect of forcing everyone into fighting as a heavy weight? Hmmm, well seeing as most matches now consists of at least 3mercs,3 jugs 2snipers this is exactly what has happened.

Possible solutions as previous stated remove all heal on dmg (or give to all) or nerf your overall dmg output your not DPS glass cannon spec's after all, your a hybrid pseudo tank/dps albeit the weakest of the trio but still you break trinity. They could raise glass cannons damage I'm not apposed to this at least this way, yeah you die quickly but you do a crap load of DPS making it worth while playing the class.

Keeping it as is, going with the status quo means glass cannon spec's are moot why play a class were I do high DPS and die quickly when i can play a Merc Jug or sniper DO AS HIGH OR HIGHER and not die as much!

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
09.24.2018 , 10:45 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazz_Devlin View Post
Apparently so is comprehend what you read, I'm not convinced you do! You sure as heck don't grasp the meaning of "being LIKE MERCS which they in no way are"

Jugs reflect<----------> Mercs Reflect
Jugs Heal on dmg <--------------->Mercs Heal on damage
Jugs Mad dash <-------------->Rocket out

There is three ways right there that jugs ar LIKE MERC's bud! Those three ways also extend your life at least 1.5 times! Yet you keep ignoring it saying "It doesn't matter in multiple combat i get melted! Well guess what sins gets melted faster than jug does so that comparison doesn't wash.

If jugs would accept the fact that DPS burst is suppose to be a glass cannon spec and thus go out do huge dmg and then die we might get some where. Instead you just keep keep pointing to merc's and sniper and saying were not like them! Yet you are, no not to their extent but your dmg output to Time to Death is to high! To be fair Merc and sniper's Time to Death is WAY WAY TO HIGH!

Yeah, I know, I know each class is better at some stuff than others argument! That is bull dookey! This is exactly how the dev's think and it is exactly why PVP dies. By doing it that way you in effect create weight classes. Which would be fine if this was MMA or boxing; and what would happen if a heavy weight went against a light weight or feather weight who do you think the odds of winning would be placed on? While having an upset is plausible how many of them would end up as Heavy weight being the victor? What would happen to the moral of those fighting in the lightweight classes? Would this not have the effect of forcing everyone into fighting as a heavy weight? Hmmm, well seeing as most matches now consists of at least 3mercs,3 jugs 2snipers this is exactly what has happened.

Possible solutions as previous stated remove all heal on dmg (or give to all) or nerf your overall dmg output your not DPS glass cannon spec's after all, your a hybrid pseudo tank/dps albeit the weakest of the trio but still you break trinity. They could raise glass cannons damage I'm not apposed to this at least this way, yeah you die quickly but you do a crap load of DPS making it worth while playing the class.

Keeping it as is, going with the status quo means glass cannon spec's are moot why play a class were I do high DPS and die quickly when i can play a Merc Jug or sniper DO AS HIGH OR HIGHER and not die as much!
While Juggs do have some reflect and damage mitigation, they are not even in the same lightyear when it comes to damage mitigation as a MERC.
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KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.24.2018 , 11:43 AM | #45
Ok seriously dude, tell me where the mean guardian hit you.
A. Merc reflect is both longer, reflects more damage types, and heals the merc. The only downside is a longer CD
B. Mercs have spammable heals because they are a healing capable class.
C. Rocket out vs blade blitz, whatver. Id say BB was better because easier to aim but meh.

You can focus a guardian through reflect + FD very easily with 2 or more people. Provided you know what the buff looks like, its also not difficult to kite/mezz/Cc/whatever. Mercs reflect + heal is one button and all you can do is hope for LOS or aoe. My guardian does not have the range or mobility to keep up with most classes, even other melee ones.

If you choose to use your stealth out in an attempt to number farm rather than win, that seems like a you problem. I have 2 friends that play shadows that regularly win games for me. Would i rather have a guardian in a straight fight? Sure, a sentinel would be even better. But to claim we're as good as a merc is nigh on ridiculous.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
09.24.2018 , 01:21 PM | #46
I'd fight a jugg, sin, or a merc any day over a Furry Mara. They're the real enemy
Beruhl / Zenovia / Lobotomy / Sejanos / Warpunk
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I believe he's quoting a frequent contributor to these forums. His name is Strawman.
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Thanks Rion Starbrah.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.24.2018 , 06:07 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Ok seriously dude, tell me where the mean guardian hit you.
A. Merc reflect is both longer, reflects more damage types, and heals the merc. The only downside is a longer CD
B. Mercs have spammable heals because they are a healing capable class.
C. Rocket out vs blade blitz, whatver. Id say BB was better because easier to aim but meh.

You can focus a guardian through reflect + FD very easily with 2 or more people. Provided you know what the buff looks like, its also not difficult to kite/mezz/Cc/whatever. Mercs reflect + heal is one button and all you can do is hope for LOS or aoe. My guardian does not have the range or mobility to keep up with most classes, even other melee ones.

If you choose to use your stealth out in an attempt to number farm rather than win, that seems like a you problem. I have 2 friends that play shadows that regularly win games for me. Would i rather have a guardian in a straight fight? Sure, a sentinel would be even better. But to claim we're as good as a merc is nigh on ridiculous.


ROFL, REALLY NEED TO WORK ON THAT READING COMPREHENSION!
think i said this "Yet you keep ignoring it saying "It doesn't matter in multiple combat i get melted! Well guess what sins gets melted faster than jug does so that comparison doesn't wash.

You seem to think that because you get melted by merc's this some how excludes the fact you break trinity!
Fact is you would not get "melted" solo with a sin or a mara (other than fury) OR a sorc.

A. didn't say it was better or worse than jugs reflect
B. didn't make comparison on the quality of heals only stated you both had heals the trigger when damaged
C. didn't comment on easy of use of various dashing ability

for those with reading comprehension issues let me try to clarify that YOUR statement of "MERCS which they in no way are " was false as proved above in that you have similar abilities!
similar defined: resembling without being identical. (just in case)

Further clarification for meatbags with reading comprehension issues: In direct response to "But to claim we're as good as a merc is nigh on ridiculous."
having similar abilities doesn't make you equal to said classes in question (i.e mercs & snipers) as stated previously your are on the low end of the trio. (To clarify that means if you soloed them they'd own you)

yeah i know the above probably confused you i'll try harder ........because they are really really OP and you are only mildly OP there OPness is greater .........that's as SIMPLE as I can make it!

Alas, though we all know your argument will be " One on one is irrelevant I focus on group fights" blah blah blah proving once again you didn't comprehend anything written in the last four pages.

Finally as to the number farming jab , As I stated before hard to win matches when your dead cause you stealth-ed out only to be popped back into combat by an AOE melee attack <cough> mad dash. (So if I choose to cloak and reengage as an alternative to cloaking out and attempting to run, when running will in all probability just end up leading to my death how is that number farming? Would that not be harnessing my potential as DPS burst glass cannon?)
So if your incapable of hitting mad dash when a sin cloaks out on you guess that's on you. Cloak is not the panacea you think it is especially against a jug that has AOE melee attack!

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.24.2018 , 06:53 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
While Juggs do have some reflect and damage mitigation, they are not even in the same lightyear when it comes to damage mitigation as a MERC.
awe dude please tell me you actually have read what I have been writing. I ain't saying it rises to the level of merc or sniper but it still break trinity! BUT to clarify NERF THEM ALL!

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
09.24.2018 , 07:04 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
Kazz Devlin, I totally agree with you 150%. Your posts are my thoughts exactly and I think KendraP should apply for a job int he dev team as the totally thinks and sees class balance the way they do. I think I've already mentioned this in other theads some time ago.

Yes, Kendra, sadly in PVP there are I WIN classes and Sin DPS isn't one of them. The developer team has no clue about what needs to be done, but DPS with guards needs to go and DPS with self heals and " another life" abilities need to have lesser DPS than classes with almost non existent self heals. it's logical, yet in this game.. we have another life classes + their insane DPS.
The only advantage SIn DPS has over jugg is stealth, in every other aspect the Jugg is much better.
I would only disagree a bit on the last. Stealth is good for getting off first attacks as an escape its really pure luck. If you have taken shroud of madness then you stand a good chance against classes that have no melee AOE attacks. Against a jug with skill he'll pop you out with mad dash 99% of the time just as an assassin's lacerate will. Don't buy into Kendra's dogma that its this golden panacea. Yes it is a valuable tool and I have used it to hide n heal to be fair here and maybe i have grown to cynical with all the times I have been "popped" so instead I accept the fact i'm gonna die and usually reengage going for the reckless reset.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.24.2018 , 07:27 PM | #50
First off, I beat mercs all the time. They are actually pretty interrupt prone for one thing, and I know how to make good use of LOS. A sniper is much more difficult for me because of their multiple get out of doge/get me away from them tools.

I am going to keep beating the dead horse that guardians are in no fashion in the same universe as mercs. the third member of that trio is a fury mara, which is also probably the most dangerous of that trio, because it does high damage with good burst as well.

I do not think stealth is an instant win button, anymore than I think FD is. I do think, however, that if sins had self heals to the level of FD (or worse mercs) they would be op because they also have the capability of stealthing. Like it or not, the stealth is a factor that must be balanced around. See also the king of 1v1 - operatives. (I am not jumping on any #nerfoperatives bandwagon, i am saying they are good 1v1).

I only mentioned the thing on stealth out because you said somewhere further back about using it as a damage buff. If that's your primary use of the tool, then perhaps you need to rethink your use of the class's tools. When I play concentration sent, I have used stealth out as a interrupt before, but if I think i need to use it as a disengage in the near future, I'm probably not going to do so. It's all about decisions.

Also, as a tank main who does nearly 3 mill protection in addition to taking almost 3 mill damage in warzones, I am perfectly aware of how blade blitz functions. for proof https://imgur.com/a/WS1mSY2