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My issues with hatred Assassin

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
My issues with hatred Assassin

CaptainObvius's Avatar


CaptainObvius
06.22.2019 , 02:55 PM | #1
When you play some of the other classes you really feel like they put some thought into them.

Like when you play a Merc and you have an ability that 'resets the cooldown' of a skill. It doesn't trigger until AFTER you use the skill allowing you to use the skill, trigger it, then use the skill again like unload.

But for some weird reason the hatred spec of Assassin doesn't do this. I can't figure out why they wouldn't have this in.

My Eradicate cooldown gets cooldown reset when i hit someone with a direct attack while they are ticking dots. OK GREAT! But why is that going off BEFORE I even use the skill? I should get to use the skill, THEN trigger it, allowing me to use it again.

This also happens to Assassinate. If you are ticking dots away and the ability hasn't triggered, and the target is under 30% life you can use the skill then get the trigger immediately after that and use the ability again. However if the trigger goes off BEFORE you use the skill, you only get to use it once!

***?

I feel almost as if the game is telling me how to play my character. You HAVE to use Eradicate before you use any direct damage attacks. And you HAVE to use Assassinate as soon as it comes up or else you lose it!


I'd also like to say that Spike, as cool as the ability is, only being usable from stealth feels rather lame. I feel like there's a bit of a hole in the rotation where u spam Thrash a few times while waiting for cooldown resets and Spike could instead be a part of that rotation. Alacrity doesn't help at all with an ability that only triggers every 9 seconds. It's 9 seconds no matter what.

I think Spike should be redone to: Usable without stealth, only stuns the target if used from stealth.

As a side note I also feel like Renewing darkness is a very weird skill. Most of the other classes get some great self sustainability skills. More importantly they can keep fighting while they are being used. Shields that restore 40% life after they end, shields that reflect damage AND heal, shields that heal you as you get hit, instantly gaining 30% life etc... etc.. etc..

So why do I have to stay stealthed for 5 seconds, doing NOTHING during that time, in order to wait to get healed? It feels very clunky and I honestly don't even see how this would help while tanking cause if ur stealthed for 5 seconds someone on your team may probably die while ur trying to regen some hp lol. Jugg can just sit there and take a beating while healing himself.

MuskyBoy's Avatar


MuskyBoy
06.22.2019 , 06:37 PM | #2
The raze passive works when you hit a target with a melee ability that already affected by discharge this ends the cd of eradicate. You can use eradicate at the start but it costs 30 force rather then the zero force cost you get when eradicate procs. Without this proc your eradicate is on a 22 sec cd rather then a 9 sec CD. The assassinate proc comes from bloodletting, the proc lights up and you have 15 seonds to use before the proc wears off. At no point do you need to use this ability straight away. Reapplying discharge, and creeping terror as well as death field and leeching strike are of higher priority when bloodletting procs above 30% because the next bloodletting proc CD is happening even if you delay the ability (if you wait 9 secs before you use assassinate it will re proc again in 6 secs not 15 secs assuming you have dots ticking). Sub 30 % assassinate comes off CD every 5 secs or so depending on alacrity so bloodletting really doesn't add a great deal anyway during this phase and of course discharge, creeping terror, eradicate and death field all do 30 % more damage during execution phase. In short assassinate is prioritized above 30% when it procs over thrash and saber strike and below 30% death field, discharge, creeping all have a higher priority, eradicate can be delayed because assassinate cd is shorter then the raze internal cd and it can be used ahead of leeching strike because of it shorter cd and higher damage.

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
06.23.2019 , 07:38 PM | #3
Quote:
OK GREAT! But why is that going off BEFORE I even use the skill?
What does this even mean?

Mechanically, the cooldown reset on Eradicate is identical to the cooldown reset of Blazing Bolts.

And rotationally, you can delay both of those for multiple GCDs, there is no need to use them right away.

I don't understand this "issue" of yours. I think you are missing something or imagining things.

PrometheanDeath's Avatar


PrometheanDeath
06.24.2019 , 04:55 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by captainobvius View Post
when you play some of the other classes you really feel like they put some thought into them.

Like when you play a merc and you have an ability that 'resets the cooldown' of a skill. It doesn't trigger until after you use the skill allowing you to use the skill, trigger it, then use the skill again like unload.

But for some weird reason the hatred spec of assassin doesn't do this. I can't figure out why they wouldn't have this in.
Hatred I'd have to say, has more thought into the spec because it's unique, and definitely way more thought out than arsenlul. A "reset cooldown" proc will reset a skill's cooldown even if it is off CD, and you could test this yourself with merc as well. In Arsenal simply spam tracer missile, dont need anything else and you'll notice the audio effect of blazing bolts CD reset still happens even though it wasn't used. If you'd like a more visual based version I would try Advanced Prototype on Powertech. spam mag blast and you'll eventually reset the CD of railshot even though you never used railshot yet your character will still chuckle at proccing railshot and the buff will be refreshed.

Quote: Originally Posted by captainobvius View Post
my eradicate cooldown gets cooldown reset when i hit someone with a direct attack while they are ticking dots. Ok great! But why is that going off before i even use the skill? I should get to use the skill, then trigger it, allowing me to use it again.

This also happens to assassinate. If you are ticking dots away and the ability hasn't triggered, and the target is under 30% life you can use the skill then get the trigger immediately after that and use the ability again. However if the trigger goes off before you use the skill, you only get to use it once!
The reason you get eradicate's CD reset is because of your level 28 passive which states "Melee attacks that strike a target affected your discharge grant Raze, finishing the cooldown on eradicate" this effect can happen once every 9 seconds or every 6 attacks after you grant yourself Raze. The reason this also happens to assassinate is because this proc is not in your control, it has it's own internal cooldown. This is something that you just have to deal with, sometimes it's in your favor and you can get a back to back assassinate, or it'll reset CD right before you use it and now you just have to deal with using thrash as replacement.

Quote: Originally Posted by captainobvius View Post
i feel almost as if the game is telling me how to play my character. You have to use eradicate before you use any direct damage attacks. And you have to use assassinate as soon as it comes up or else you lose it!


I'd also like to say that spike, as cool as the ability is, only being usable from stealth feels rather lame. I feel like there's a bit of a hole in the rotation where u spam thrash a few times while waiting for cooldown resets and spike could instead be a part of that rotation. Alacrity doesn't help at all with an ability that only triggers every 9 seconds. It's 9 seconds no matter what.

I think spike should be redone to: Usable without stealth, only stuns the target if used from stealth.
All specs in the game tell you how to play your character, that's what a spec is and why they have a design and priority or rotation to maximize how everything was put together. Eradicate is supposed to be used before your melee attacks, hatred is a dot spec so that should of been done anyway. Assassinate can be delayed as Bloodletting lasts 15 seconds and can only be granted every 15 seconds, but if you are referring to when a target is sub 30 you are also correct, assassinate is used on CD sub 30. This is why I mentioned hatred is unique because while it feels and has the abilities of a dot spec in actuality hatred is an execute spec. From the giant sub 30% boost to the very short cooldown of the assassinate execute skill, that's hatred's true intention especially in operation burn phases.
Spike is indeed a useless ability for dps assassins, it's mainly a pvp only ability for an initial stun. Operative's used to have an ability just like spike however that was taken away because of it's "lack of use" and same would of happened to assassins had a certain spec not utilize it already. If you'd like to branch off and read other specs, tanks can use spike out of stealth mainly for damage and aggro or as all tanks have more control. This is how they gave sin tanks more control instead of giving them new abilities such as backhand on immortal juggernaut.
Thrash is used multiple times in a row as a filler, because that's exactly what it is, and same goes for your saber strike to balance your force cost. Annihilation marauder does this exact thing too, vicious slash is used multiple times as a filler till your better abilities are off CD, heck even lightning spams lightning bolt tilll better abilities are off CD so hatred isn't the only spec who has to deal with this and that's just 2 specs and there are more. Alacrity does affect procs like Raze as an fyi. If you lower your global cooldown rate to 1.3 seconds with alacrity as the most optimal builds would suggest, this would put the rule of "every 6 attacks after a raze proc will proc another raze" on a 7.8 second timer (1.3 x 6) which does happen with no issue.

Quote: Originally Posted by captainobvius View Post
as a side note i also feel like renewing darkness is a very weird skill. Most of the other classes get some great self sustainability skills. More importantly they can keep fighting while they are being used. Shields that restore 40% life after they end, shields that reflect damage and heal, shields that heal you as you get hit, instantly gaining 30% life etc... Etc.. Etc..

So why do i have to stay stealthed for 5 seconds, doing nothing during that time, in order to wait to get healed? It feels very clunky and i honestly don't even see how this would help while tanking cause if ur stealthed for 5 seconds someone on your team may probably die while ur trying to regen some hp lol. Jugg can just sit there and take a beating while healing himself.
Renewing Darkness indeed is a very weird utility/skill, because it's a terrible one at that. It's the worst legendary of all 6 choices and if you'd prefer a better choice, phasing phantasm and disjunction are the better 2 for hatred if you truly want to choose only legendary utilities.
Assassin is not like a juggernaut though with "great self sustainability skills" because they are an assassin, literally the "hit, kill, and run" class. Not every class is supposed to stand there an take 200 shots and live like a juggernaut or mercenary now, and that's why you probably find trouble with the survivability in assassin, you're trying to leap into the fray of battle and play them like an immortal front line defender. Every class is supposed to be different and complaining about why a hit and run class isn't immune to dying wasn't the greatest idea, but to each their own. I'll gladly boast about assassin as that is my very own main class I have played since launch, and what flaws you see in hatred are fixed in other specs and classes. What you probably overlooked though is what hatred excels at, and while I mentioned sub 30% executions they are also one of the highest AoE damage classes in the game. Your explanation tells me that you are probably leaning towards more to pvp viability and that is not the strong suit of hatred anyway especially if trying to 1v1 any class. Hatred as a class is an AoE and execute spec that revolves around hit and run tactics and if you don't like it, it just might be that the class is not for you.