I was going to leave it alone, because frankly this conversation was over. I won't convince you and you won't convince me but you brought me up so I'll at least respond to that.

 

What I find somewhat sad here is you are touting that going to another country halfway across the world and "giving them democracy" and then "rebuilding their schools" etc, is actually something I care about? Have you not been listening to the News the last 8 years or so? The American people are sick and tired of our Military doing just what you describe. Poll after poll has Americans voting AGAINST these wars and against the rebuilding of these nations. You are not there as some righteous hand of God come to make their lives better - you are there as part of the imperialistic American culture that we have developed over the last 50 years.

 

You want to do something actually heroic? Quit the military and come back here to America and help Habitat for Humanity. Stop building homes and schools and roads in Afghanistan and start building them here in America. You question my patriotism - I question yours as you seem more excited to build infrastructure for the Middle East than you do for America itself.

 

Saying that Middle Eastern people come up to you and thank you makes me kind of sick. I wonder how many AMERICAN citizens (You know the ones you were sworn to actually protect) would be thankful to have that kind of help too, but you don't actually help AMERICAN citizens do you?

 

Now I am not blaming soldiers for this. It is just your job. It is the politicians who are to blame for all this, but do I regard soldiers as some holier than thou person? Absolutely not - there are plenty of more noble professions than Military Service.

 

Oh and as far as the Military IQ thing: Here is a link from 2008 about the lowering standards of the US Military: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2008/01/dumb_and_dumber.html

 

It was only until a couple months ago did the Military start to re-raise those standards again - so yes, the Military IQ has been dropping since 2006 and will remain as such for many years to come as old members get out and new recruits get in.

 

This whole thing started because the OP wanted to know why Military people always seem to want to show that service on the outside so that everyone knows that they are Military. The answer is simple, they are proud of being in the military, and good for them...that doesn't make them special people or better than anyone else.

The reason that the US Military doesn't work on America's infrastructure is due to the Posse Comitatus Act. Here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act "The Posse Comitatus Act is the United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) that was passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction and was updated in 1981. Its intent (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) was to limit the powers of Federal government in using federal military personnel to enforce the State laws." So in essence it's to keep congress from becoming a group of dictators and using the might of the US Military against the citizens of the US. Which also means that the military isn't allowed to build homes or infrastructure because there are to many out there that would see this as an act of insurrection.

As far as the holier than thou comment goes, it seems that it's your personal insecurity and envy of those who wear the uniform that is the root of this problem. There could a lot of different reasons for that and you may want to talk to an objective third party about it.

Now to the IQ comment, to that all I have to say is you should read what you've written and you'll see the reason they lowered the standards is because without doing so people like you couldn't get in. The reason why is because until 2006 you couldn't get in unless you had a high school diploma and a GED doesn't count as a high school diploma. Funny how when you use statistics, but don't use all the facts you can spin anything to sound the way you want it to. I read the article you linked (you have to copy and paste it out because the hyperlink doesn't work) and what's funny is that the same talking points were said on an episode of Family Guy, so I'm just going to take it with a grain of salt and laugh at you for using this as your reliable source.

In the end of this you are apart of a group that likes to sit back pointing their fingers and making noise at the men an women who stand up and make a difference. But never forget that it is they who are doing the job so you can harass them, so once again you are welcome for the rights and freedoms you take for granted because people like myself made sure you could.

The reason that the US Military doesn't work on America's infrastructure is due to the Posse Comitatus Act. Here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act "The Posse Comitatus Act is the United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) that was passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction and was updated in 1981. Its intent (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) was to limit the powers of Federal government in using federal military personnel to enforce the State laws." So in essence it's to keep congress from becoming a group of dictators and using the might of the US Military against the citizens of the US. Which also means that the military isn't allowed to build homes or infrastructure because there are to many out there that would see this as an act of insurrection.

 

[cut for brevity]

 

But never forget that it is they who are doing the job so you can harass them, so once again you are welcome for the rights and freedoms you take for granted because people like myself made sure you could.

Well said. Well said.

Why do some people feel the need to let everyone know, via their signatures that they are in the military or the army?

Desert Storm Vet here,

Because.... That's why.... Unless you ever did it, you would NEVER, understand

I served my country for 8 years. Proud to do have done so. In fact, I may change my signature. Thank you for the idea.

I apologize to everyone else. Normally, I do not get upset. But that just rubbed me the wrong way.

What the hell are you talking about?Again and again you are speaking to the wrong person and blaming the wrong person by projecting feelings towards me,which are gathered up having someone else in mind.

I never said i have problems with the military,its study and its history is even part of my university education and it was a hobby during high school.I am also generally pro-american in my views.(there is a major pro-russian sentiment in my country)

Also the internal american issue,what's the role of *their* military is and what it is doing around the world+ how they veiw *their* soldiers, going on in this thread is non of my concern .You are again angry at the wrong person.It's an interesting topic which i will not discuss in a mmorpg forum,and didn't touch it in my humble previous posts.

 

However i would advice you not take the ''spread democracy in the world'' too literally.

Realy?

''Freedoms being at risk''?''Soldiers defending our freedoms''? /sniff Smells like americans and their insane freedoms paranoia.Nevermind the fact that there is no one in the world with enough power to take away your freedoms,soldiers or not.Those that do have such power,are your allies or simply don't care about your freedoms.

 

There is little shame in attempting to defend or enforce your national interest or corporate interest,why do you have to platitude the hell out of it self righteousness talk about freedoms that your government propaganda your head with.

There's your first post, skip. Would you like me to post your insulting, misinformed second one? ;p

Look, you are a college kid, that has probably never even been out of your local town until college, being fed garbage by teachers that have probably never been out of the education system.....trying to tell seasoned veterans, that probably have food in their teeth that is older then you, that we are buying into propaganda.....all the while spouting nonsense that every fool from the hippies on down have regurgitated ad nasueam, and for decades, that is still as far fetched, dis-proven as it was then.

do you think you are the first little robot we've seen? Do you think this is all original, like you have something to say that has not been said a thousand times before.....and almost word for word? You saw the opportunity to spout your anti American, anti Military nonsense, and took it. It happens every time military people speak, there is always those one or two that will bop in with frehsly washed brains, ready to denounce the evil and announce the conspiracy theories....talk about projecting.

Look, let me give you a bit of advice. When you read something about a subject, rather then accept it as absolute, and then bloviating as if you have done anything more then regurgitate, read a a thesis from an opposing viewpoint that will provide a more well rounded understanding of a subject, read actual documented and scientific evidence.....and then do not try to preach to those that have enough experience and education on the subject to be your teacher's teacher.

I was going to leave it alone, because frankly this conversation was over. I won't convince you and you won't convince me but you brought me up so I'll at least respond to that.

You really should have left it along.....but you just can't resist. LOL

Again, as "informed" as our other little skippy here, but citing news editorials, I'm sure from a select few ultra liberal sources that support what his educational system hide-away professor espoused. I mean really, the media?

Again, kid, you have no idea what you are talking about, but are just regurgitating one side of a very complex issues, and all for the sake of bashing something that you hardly understand but have been taught to despise. You've bought into without question, following the extremist exact tactic of touching on a legitimate subject just enough to be able to twist it to your own end,, and then running with it as if it will be as unquestioned as it is in your little narrow halls of, er "higher learning"....but its not truth and its not accurate. I mean, really, do you not think that I could vilify the education system with equal ferver, cite the media, twist reality, regurgitate conjecture enough to make them seem like the villain? Think I can do that with just about any subject, organization, society? Wanna do Ford motor company? How about the insurance industry?

Look, if you two donuts want to continue embarrassing yourselves with this grade school angst, then go right ahead. I'm sure that some high tolerance vet will indulge, and attempt to educate you....though I know from experience that its a waste of time. Most of us save our discussions about the pros and cons of the military, government intervention, political world theory for those with enough knowledge, education, and rational though to actually have that discussion without the silly catch phrases and spoon fed nonsense I'm seeing puked all over this board.

Have a great day....my arse says hello. ;p

Desert Storm Vet here,

 

Because.... That's why.... Unless you ever did it, you would NEVER, understand

 

I served my country for 8 years. Proud to do have done so. In fact, I may change my signature. Thank you for the idea.

 

I apologize to everyone else. Normally, I do not get upset. But that just rubbed me the wrong way.

I agree. I don't normally spout my military and law enforcement service but posts like this make me want to. OP what does it matter what we put in our signatures? You could put that you have a PhD in basket weaving and we wouldn't bother you so why are you criticizing us?

I agree. I don't normally spout my military and law enforcement service but posts like this make me want to. OP what does it matter what we put in our signatures? You could put that you have a PhD in basket weaving and we wouldn't bother you so why are you criticizing us?

In fairness to the OP, he asked the question, wanted a little clarification and left it be after that. The OP is far from being the offensive one here. I wouldn't ride the OP too much.

In fairness to the OP, he asked the question, wanted a little clarification and left it be after that. The OP is far from being the offensive one here. I wouldn't ride the OP too much.

Some of the others in this thread have been disrespectful though.

Few people understand the sacrifices entire families make when we send a generation to War.

Freedom never was, nor will it ever be free

Its important to let people that you are defending there Freedom by playing video games.

Honestly, thank you, but if you are in the Armed Forces down time is not just time to waist.

Some of the others in this thread have been disrespectful though.

 

Few people understand the sacrifices entire families make when we send a generation to War.

 

Freedom never was, nor will it ever be free

The last time "a generation" was sent to war was in 1939-1945.

If you want to stop wars, institute the draft. Make everyone sacrifice instead of the 1-5% who bear the whole cost now.

In fairness to the OP, he asked the question, wanted a little clarification and left it be after that. The OP is far from being the offensive one here. I wouldn't ride the OP too much.

Thank you.

The last time "a generation" was sent to war was in 1939-1945.

 

If you want to stop wars, institute the draft. Make everyone sacrifice instead of the 1-5% who bear the whole cost now.

Just a guess, but some that had kin that served in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan might disagree, as well as those that take a different view of history.

And personally, I rather support the idea of a volunteer force; much prefer the notion that those that serve chose to be there. Then again, I do think a 2 yr intro to life might aid a lot of people which could include Military service, work in the service industry, maintain an average GPA in college after HS, etc.

Just a guess, but some that had kin that served in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan might disagree, as well as those that take a different view of history.

 

And personally, I rather support the idea of a volunteer force; much prefer the notion that those that serve chose to be there. Then again, I do think a 2 yr intro to life might aid a lot of people which could include Military service, work in the service industry, maintain an average GPA in college after HS, etc.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to insult or denigrate anyone's volunteer service.

But wars are way too easy to start and perpetuate when only a few pay the price. Make everyone shoulder the cost and the only wars that get fought are those that are absolutely necessary, such as WW2.

Its important to let people that you are defending there Freedom by playing video games.

 

Honestly, thank you, but if you are in the Armed Forces down time is not just time to waist.

While those in the Military do work for it's citizens, it is doubtful that they take advice from one specific individual. If by some chance there are AD's playing SWTOR, I can all but guarantee that this is used while on downtime; not from some guard on patrol.

Most servicemen that appear to play here are prior enrollees like myself. And for those on AD, keep your sense of humor; makes things so much more bearable.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to insult or denigrate anyone's volunteer service.

 

But wars are way too easy to start and perpetuate when only a few pay the price. Make everyone shoulder the cost and the only wars that get fought are those that are absolutely necessary, such as WW2.

Wars can start and be fought over some trivial notions, but it is often the civilian authorities making those rather questionable decisions, and they are not part of that force. I disagree, believing and hoping that the cost of WW2 should not reoccur.

Wars can start and be fought over some trivial notions, but it is often the civilian authorities making those rather questionable decisions, and they are not part of that force. I disagree, believing and hoping that the cost of WW2 should not reoccur.

True enough. But when the decision to go to war might actually put the loved ones of those civilian authorities in harm's way, the odds of it getting that far drop drastically.

True enough. But when the decision to go to war might actually put the loved ones of those civilian authorities in harm's way, the odds of it getting that far drop drastically.

And the facts of history seem to disprove this idea, as there was such a force in Korea and Vietnam, plus the wars fought prior to the volunteer forces.

And the facts of history seem to disprove this idea, as there was such a force in Korea and Vietnam, plus the wars fought prior to the volunteer forces.

Historically speaking, not really.

WW1 - 4.7 million U.S. served, 105 million world wide

WW2 - 16.1 million U.S. served, 1.9 billion world wide

Korea - 5.7 million UN forces served

Vietnam - 536,100 U.S. served

Some drafts are more equal than others.

Again, not trying to denigrate those who did serve. The opposite in fact.

Historically speaking, not really.

 

WW1 - 4.7 million U.S. served, 105 million world wide

WW2 - 16.1 million U.S. served, 1.9 billion world wide

Korea - 5.7 million UN forces served

Vietnam - 536,100 U.S. served

 

Some drafts are more equal than others.

 

Again, not trying to denigrate those who did serve. The opposite in fact.

There is a reason I dislike stats; made to dance without context. Look at the area of conflict in these examples, and one can easily see a factor in the difference of numbers. And while Vietnam may have been smaller in conflict, the cost is always higher than the number of those that served (eg; families, country, monetary, political, etc).

Plus current leaders do have loved ones in service; also volunteers, I believe.

Some of the others in this thread have been disrespectful though.

 

Few people understand the sacrifices entire families make when we send a generation to War.

 

Freedom never was, nor will it ever be free

No argument about the others, but I see a lot of people jumping on the OP when at this point I think that points been made and understood.

OP obviously got what he wanted out of this and his belly is full.

Military does always bite on the simplest bait.

We shouldn't have stopped doing ticker-tape parades after world war2, the way veterans were treated since the korean war was starkly worse and the way it was satirized on M*A*S*H just brought the entire veteran culture downhill from there.

The last time "a generation" was sent to war was in 1939-1945.

 

If you want to stop wars, institute the draft. Make everyone sacrifice instead of the 1-5% who bear the whole cost now.

It's been 12 years now, over twice as long as WW2. I would say that would be enough to classify it "sending a generation to war".

Just a guess, but some that had kin that served in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan might disagree, as well as those that take a different view of history.

 

And personally, I rather support the idea of a volunteer force; much prefer the notion that those that serve chose to be there. Then again, I do think a 2 yr intro to life might aid a lot of people which could include Military service, work in the service industry, maintain an average GPA in college after HS, etc.

See that's where I have my moral dilemma too. The fact that it is an all volunteer military speaks volumes, but after spending time in countries where they institute a mandatory 2 year push after you finish school, and how it has worked for them and their culture it makes me wonder if it might not be the best move.

See that's where I have my moral dilemma too. The fact that it is an all volunteer military speaks volumes, but after spending time in countries where they institute a mandatory 2 year push after you finish school, and how it has worked for them and their culture it makes me wonder if it might not be the best move.

It's one of the more constructive debates people can have about a military topic, I like when it comes up. There's strong arguments for both sides.