The argument is that if a power BLOCKADES Nar Shaddaa, as has been suggested for Traya with her garvity well things, then there'll be backlash. Smugglers can't make credits off the biggest underworld market in the galaxy if they can't leave or enter Nar Shaddaa. They're not gonna sit by and lose money, influence, and favor with the dangerous gang leaders they work for. Trying to interupt the business of the underworld has never ended well for anyone.

*Cough* Taris *cough*

The benefits of blockading Nar Shaddaa are pretty small, however that's not to say Traya has no way of destroying Jekk'Jekk Tarr. I originally thought a full body suit was needed because the toxic fumes where lethal to the touch, not only to breath in. (I believe the enviro-suit was a plot device.) However this seems not to be the case as the Exile only used breath control to bypass them. So, equip some assassins with breathing masks and send them in stealthed with some clientele.

Then have the assassins plant say, dioxis gas in the circulation systems. With the aliens not wearing breath masks, such as the Gand, they won't be able to ward off its effects and will all die. With the bar compromised Ubese assassins will likely flood the area and be cut down. If the Sith are unable to pass through the maze (it wouldn't be that hard) they can simply cave it in. Trapping all inside who will likely starve or at least have to sit the fight out.

Thoughts?

Not entirely sure destroying the bar, would be that big in the grand scheme of things. It'll get rid of some members that G0-T0 has, but comparing what he has its more of a minor thing. The problem here, is finding G0-T0....though that is only a problem due to the fact he can cloak his ship, the gravity generators will keep him from jumping to lightspeed however so the Sith fleet could search the surrounding area for the ship.

I don't really see any other problems, other then it would take time in finding him. I am forgetful at times, I feel as if this was already covered before I apologize.

Not entirely sure destroying the bar, would be that big in the grand scheme of things. It'll get rid of some members that G0-T0 has, but comparing what he has its more of a minor thing. The problem here, is finding G0-T0....though that is only a problem due to the fact he can cloak his ship, the gravity generators will keep him from jumping to lightspeed however so the Sith fleet could search the surrounding area for the ship.

• HK-50 assassin droids
  
• Gand bounty hunters
  
• Ubese Assassins
  

If Traya eliminates all of these, I believe G0-T0 will make a personal apperance. G0-T0 doesn't seem to be adverse to getting his hands dirty, he agreed to travel with Surik across multiple planets and battlefields and personally prevented the remote from reactivating the MSG rather than sending some lackeys to do it.

Now several debaters have said that even without these G0-T0 still has his so called 'Droid Army' - but lets face it, this is made up of a smattering of protocol, labor and astromech droids scattered across the galaxy. Hardly a capable invasion force to penetrate the most dangerous planet in the galaxy. And then we have these. Granted they have the capabilities of reactivating the MSG generator but not without support of the above - there not exactly ground breakingly powerful.

EDIT: The problem with your scenario is that even if Traya traps G0-T0 on Nar Shaddaa, she has to sift through countless freighters and ships that may very well become hostile (see the First Battle of Onderon) and in that time G0-T0 could escape on a private shuttle or an escape pod which he'd likely have prepared.

But then he would be leaving his droid control ship if he goes onto a private shuttle, an escape pod won't get him very far either. Though are freighters really gonna pose a threat to a Sith Fleet? The 1st Battle of Onderon wasn't against a Sith fleet, it was against the Onderon fleet which comparing to the Sith fleet isn't much only having Foray-class blockade runners and A-wings.

So yes, if Traya strikes quickly enough she may have a chance of destroying his yacht. But if he has time to prepare he could well be on the other side of the moon, or on the planet itself. (Or even on Nal Hutta - no hyperspace jumps required.)

EDIT: The problem with your scenario is that even if Traya traps G0-T0 on Nar Shaddaa, she has to sift through countless freighters and ships that may very well become hostile (see the First Battle of Onderon) and in that time G0-T0 could escape on a private shuttle or an escape pod which he'd likely have prepared.

Erm, Traya has the MSG right?, so she blockades Nar, plants the MSG, activates it, G0-T0 is destroyed, the end.

Erm, Traya has the MSG right?, so she blockades Nar, plants the MSG, activates it, G0-T0 is destroyed, the end.

...how does one go about moving the MSG?

It's a glorified vortex manipulator, you dig around it, construct a new cage around it and then transport it, this is Star Wars, they've moved way more powerful superweapons than the MSG.

It's a glorified vortex manipulator, you dig around it, construct a new cage around it and then transport it, this is Star Wars, they've moved way more powerful superweapons than the MSG.

I guess so, although that would take time. Especially considering Traya has to work out how to do that, and then fend of attackers while doing it - and lets not forget that Malachor V is a pretty tough and dangerous planet post-MSG. Still, it is possible...

Remember that this is Darth Traya, she supplies G0-T0 with big distraction after big distraction until everything is set, then she lays a trap that G0-T0 gets destroyed in before he realises it's been triggered.

G0-T0's best defence is his greatest weakness, Traya will exploit it, send her full fleet to blockade Nar Shaadha as soon as they drop out of hyperspace and then she takes out the entire planet and almost every ship in orbit gets taken with it.

Well he have to consider what G0-T0 can feasibly throw at Malachor V:

 

 

• HK-50 assassin droids
  
• Gand bounty hunters
  
• Ubese Assassins
  

 

If Traya eliminates all of these, I believe G0-T0 will make a personal apperance.

What seems to be a misconsumption here is that by destroying the supply, everything drops dead.

The Ubese are an entire RACE commited to bounty hunting. The Gand have an entire nest, or colony. The HKs have been in production for years.

By destroying a factory, bar, or hideout, G0-T0 will NOT loose every single one of his his forces. He can hire more Ubese. He can hire more Gand. He can gather his HKs, which actually are operating throughout the galaxy, rather than sitting on Telos like most assume.

What we see in KotOR II is only a small fraction of G0-T0's powerbase. Defeating just those forces will not force G0-T0 to take such drastic measures.

Let's keep Traya in-character for a minute here.

G0-T0's best defence is his greatest weakness, Traya will exploit it, send her full fleet to blockade Nar Shaadha as soon as they drop out of hyperspace and then she takes out the entire planet and almost every ship in orbit gets taken with it.

*Cough* "Remember that this is Darth Traya...." *Cough*

Traya is not one for bombing planets. In fact, from what we have seen, Traya never even used her fleet. She's much more likely to use shadow tactics. She does not just send troops and fleets to crush her enemies. That's not the game she plays. Reducing Traya to a warmonger who blows stuff up because she can is insulting to her character. In fact, Traya would probably neither send her forces to Nar Shaddaa OR Telos, at least not in bulk as others have suggested. She's a manipulator. She works at an angle, not full-on "KILL EVERTHNG!"

What seems to be a misconsumption here is that by destroying the supply, everything drops dead.

 

The Ubese are an entire RACE commited to bounty hunting. The Gand have an entire nest, or colony. The HKs have been in production for years.

 

By destroying a factory, bar, or hideout, G0-T0 will NOT loose every single one of his his forces. He can hire more Ubese. He can hire more Gand. He can gather his HKs, which actually are operating throughout the galaxy, rather than sitting on Telos like most assume.

 

What we see in KotOR II is only a small fraction of G0-T0's powerbase. Defeating just those forces will not force G0-T0 to take such drastic measures.

Let's also remember that once he loses an entire nest of Gand and a legion of Ubese assassins to Traya's mysterious stealth forces, other mercenaries are not going to be eager to join his cause. Not matter how high the paycheck, after all you can't spend credits if your dead. Those original Gand and Ubese already in G0-T0's service will possess a greater depth of loyally, but once they are dead the same cannot be said for others. After all how many beings in the galaxy want to invade a planet like Malachor V? Very few.

The same applies if Traya begins a war with the Exchange, if Traya raids his bases across Nar Shaddaa not only will he powerbase be crippled, but few will be willing to rally to his cause and make enemies of the Sith.

P.S. You make good points about Traya's personality but you cannot manipulate that to say that Traya will do nothing and just wait for G0-T0 to come. She's highly intelligent and will do whatever it takes to win. Granted if she does launch any kind of invasion it will be a stealthed one, but that will only make it more deadly. If she does use the MSG she will do so stealthily, and without G0-T0 knowing until it is far too late.

She works at an angle, not full-on "KILL EVERTHNG!"

Her endgame was: come and face me or I kill the galaxy.

Also, why the hell wouldn't she make a FAR more resounding and larger wound in the force by killing Nar Shaadha (Probably Nal Hutta as well given the proximity) and everyone/thing on it, which is a hell of a lot of people.

A wound that big would be gargantuan, the super massive version of Malachor V.

So again I ask you: why wouldn't she? she kills her opponent and does massive damage to the force whilst she's at it.

Let's keep Traya in-character for a minute here.

 

 

*Cough* "Remember that this is Darth Traya...." *Cough*

 

Traya is not one for bombing planets. In fact, from what we have seen, Traya never even used her fleet. She's much more likely to use shadow tactics. She does not just send troops and fleets to crush her enemies. That's not the game she plays. Reducing Traya to a warmonger who blows stuff up because she can is insulting to her character. In fact, Traya would probably neither send her forces to Nar Shaddaa OR Telos, at least not in bulk as others have suggested. She's a manipulator. She works at an angle, not full-on "KILL EVERTHNG!"

Isn't Traya the kind of person to use the tools she has to the best of their ability? It would be unwise to simply ignore her obvious space advantage.

Her endgame was: come and face me or I kill the galaxy.

 

Also, why the hell wouldn't she make a FAR more resounding and larger wound in the force by killing Nar Shaadha (Probably Nal Hutta as well given the proximity) and everyone/thing on it, which is a hell of a lot of people.

 

A wound that big would be gargantuan, the super massive version of Malachor V.

 

So again I ask you: why wouldn't she? she kills her opponent and does massive damage to the force whilst she's at it.

Because it would be the biggest mistake of her life. That would most definitively drive EVERY SINGLE UNDERWORLD PERSON IN THE GALAXY to kill her. It only takes one holo from G0-T0 to the Hutts, then it's game over. Smugglers will come. BH will come. Why? Because it is their lively hood. Check out the Battle of Nar Shaddaa. Smugglers beat the Empire. It can be done, and it will be done. She would lose, no question.

Because it would be the biggest mistake of her life. That would most definitively drive EVERY SINGLE UNDERWORLD PERSON IN THE GALAXY to kill her. It only takes one holo from G0-T0 to the Hutts, then it's game over. Smugglers will come. BH will come. Why? Because it is their lively hood. Check out the Battle of Nar Shaddaa. Smugglers beat the Empire. It can be done, and it will be done. She would lose, no question.

This is an instantaneous trap, she drops out of hyperspace, blockades the planet(which means no communications), plants the MSG, detonates it, G0-T0 dies, Kaggath won.

EDIT: and given the fact she is blockading it, the post-MSG fallout won't matter, no one is left alive who knows who did it.

True, however in the case of the HKs, the destruction of the HK factory in conjunction with a failed assault on Malachor will result in heavy losses concerning HK units. Losses he will not be able to replace because he no longer possesses the means. Granted he has possible hundreds scattered across the galaxy, but destroying the factory merely gives Traya a means to destroy them all.

 

Let's also remember that once he loses an entire nest of Gand and a legion of Ubese assassins to Traya's mysterious stealth forces, other mercenaries are not going to be eager to join his cause. Not matter how high the paycheck, after all you can't spend credits if your dead. Those original Gand and Ubese already in G0-T0's service will possess a greater depth of loyally, but once they are dead the same cannot be said for others. After all how many beings in the galaxy want to invade a planet like Malachor V? Very few.

 

The same applies if Traya begins a war with the Exchange, if Traya raids his bases across Nar Shaddaa not only will he powerbase be crippled, but few will be willing to rally to his cause and make enemies of the Sith.

 

P.S. You make good points about Traya's personality but you cannot manipulate that to say that Traya will do nothing and just wait for G0-T0 to come. She's highly intelligent and will do whatever it takes to win. Granted if she does launch any kind of invasion it will be a stealthed one, but that will only make it more deadly. If she does use the MSG she will do so stealthily, and without G0-T0 knowing until it is far too late.

Why would Traya waste all this time raiding store rooms and destroying mercenaries? This only gives G0-T0 more time to assassinate her, as less of her assassins will be there to guard her. And assassins come in many forms. Mercenaries are stupid, and will take most pay checks that come their way. And if this is truly a shadow game, wouldn't they not notice the deaths;) But seriously, most mercenaries will take the jobs. And G0-T0 isn't like most combatants. His army is droids, things that can be purchased and repaired. His army isn't just simple droids, they have weaponry. Blasters and flamethrowers were actually quite common for G0-T0, as he was hunting for Sith. He understands how to kill them. And droids can be repaired and salvaged. Updated even. You should not get rid of his army so quickly.

This is an instantaneous trap, she drops out of hyperspace, blockades the planet(which means no communications), plants the MSG, detonates it, G0-T0 dies, Kaggath won.

 

EDIT: and given the fact she is blockading it, the post-MSG fallout won't matter, no one is left alive who knows who did it.

So she wastes time trying to move the MSG, and G0-T0 never finds out? That seems wrong, considering he would send scouts to investigate it during assassination attempts. And would she kill herself doing this? If she stays on Malachor, that gives G0-T0 and even hire chance of assassination success, as her entire would be needed for the blockade. By blockading, the smugglers would attack.

True, however in the case of the HKs, the destruction of the HK factory in conjunction with a failed assault on Malachor...

Which means that both situations would have to fall in Traya's favor for there to be any actual impact to this argument. And as we have debated, the likely hood of her winning one, most certainly both, is slim.

Let's also remember that once he loses an entire nest of Gand and a legion of Ubese assassins to Traya's mysterious stealth forces, other mercenaries are not going to be eager to join his cause. Not matter how high the paycheck, after all you can't spend credits if your dead.

Well firstly, there's a little thing called revenge. Ubese are like, the masters of it. If Sith massacre their people, they'll be back. With more and more numbers. They already hate force users.

Also, you make out every underworld person to be a coward. This is not true. At all. Look at the bounty hunters working for the Sith Empire in SWTOR. The smugglers, even. I am not talking about Captain Jar Jar. The underworld is a cut throat place. If Gand/Ubese die? "Ha! Well I'm better and now the price is higher!" That's what the underworld people I am talking about would say. Not those Refugees from the Refugee Sector. More like the trandoshans of the Red Eclipse.

Remember that G0-T0 can raise the price on Traya's head as high as he wants, seeing as he doesn't have to pay it.

P.S. You make good points about Traya's personality but you cannot manipulate that to say that Traya will do nothing and just wait for G0-T0 to come. She's highly intelligent and will do whatever it takes to win. Granted if she does launch any kind of invasion it will be a stealthed one, but that will only make it more deadly. If she does use the MSG she will do so stealthily, and without G0-T0 knowing until it is far too late.

Is this MSG argument being taken into account? Because.... what? The logic is flawed. Where would she get such a crazy idea in the first place?

So she wastes time trying to move the MSG, and G0-T0 never finds out? That seems wrong, considering he would send scouts to investigate it during assassination attempts. And would she kill herself doing this? If she stays on Malachor, that gives G0-T0 and even hire chance of assassination success, as her entire would be needed for the blockade. By blockading, the smugglers would attack.

How exactly is G0-T0 'investigating' Malachor V? this is a ship graveyard.

Also, Interdictor vessels led by the Ravager will easily handle anything the criminal cartels can throw at them, like I said, this is one quick and devastating trap.

Thirdly, exactly why is Traya glued to Malachor V? she can move around freely, she can quite easily lead the blockade from the Ravager.

How exactly is G0-T0 'investigating' Malachor V? this is a ship graveyard..

G0-T0 has plenty of probe droids he would immediately send to investigate Malachor. If Traya is doing stuff outiside the academy, odds are G0-T0 will know about it.

How exactly is G0-T0 'investigating' Malachor V? this is a ship graveyard.

 

Also, Interdictor vessels led by the Ravager will easily handle anything the criminal cartels can throw at them, like I said, this is one quick and devastating trap.

 

Thirdly, exactly why is Traya glued to Malachor V? she can move around freely, she can quite easily lead the blockade from the Ravager.

Well, a ship graveyard to only on contestant? If Traya can move around freely, G0-T0 can as well. And we have established that with small ship, G0-T0 could easily land on Malachor. If Traya leads the invasion, she would most likely dies when the MSG goes off. If G0-T0 dies from it, on a different ship, than Traya who may or may not be on the same ship, will also die.

Is this MSG argument being taken into account? Because.... what? The logic is flawed. Where would she get such a crazy idea in the first place?

A Sith Lord who wants to kill the force is presented a way to kill her opponent, win the Kaggath and devastate the galaxy, not just one sector of space and you think she wouldn't do it because, simply put, it's not her style?

The damage Malachor V did was immense to the galaxy, the damage a Nar Shaada sized wound in the force could deal is enormous.

Remember, she used the Exile to destroy the force, that was her plan, use the Exile's strong ability to create connections, spread it to many people across her journey, then kill herself or the Exile to finish the job, it would've devastated the galaxy itself.

I think taking out the Smuggler's moon and decent-sized chunk of Nal Hutta is well within her thoughts.