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To joust or not to joust -that is the question.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
To joust or not to joust -that is the question.

cheese_cake's Avatar


cheese_cake
02.17.2020 , 01:43 AM | #1
Preface:
The findings here are purely theoretical. They are not an accurate representation of practice. The purpose of this post is to provide insight and encourage practical testing. The calculations in this post may be in error. Everyone is invited correct errors, refine the calculations, and further explore the presented question.

NOTICE: THIS POST IS MATH HEAVY. THIS IS NOT A HOW TO JOUST GUIDE

Introduction:
This post explores two popular builds and compares their performance when they joust. The two builds that will be compared are the Ion Cannons and Heavy versus the Quads and Heavy Rycer/Starguards. It is generally understood that the winner of the joust between the two builds is determined by luck -all other things equal. This post seeks to quantify the probability (in other words luck) of each build winning the joust -i.e. the question posed by this post is: Which build does luck favour in a joust?

It is stressed that the findings in this post are purely theoretical. Nothing has been tested. In practice there are many more factors that go into determining who might win a joust. All this post merely seeks to do is to provide theoretical insight that would encourage practical experiments and discussion.

TL;DR:
Ions+Hvy has a higher theoretical probability to win the joust compared to Quads+Hvy at all ranges. At extreme close ranges, the difference is marginal; likely in favour of quads + hvy.

Assumptions:
Performance is determined by the probability the shots from each build required to eliminate the other hits. This is derived from the accuracy of the respective lasers. It is assumed both have full shields and hulls and every factor aside from the choice of lasers & resulting rotations are equal.

Both builds will assume everything is fully upgraded, Quick Charge shields with Large reactor, and the crew with the +evasion and +extra shield pool passives. It is assumed both ships use Damage Capacitor.

It is assumed that Ions are upgraded with engine and weapon power drain. The effects of Ion’s drain tracking penalty, the possibility that Heavies would crit, and shield piercing were not considered. Shield piercing is assumed to be accounted for in the hull damage calculations following full shield removal. Other assumptions will be introduced throughout the explanation.

Method & Findings:
The post explores the probability of each build to eliminate the other at the max range of ions, and the minimum range of Quads and Heavies.

Establishing the input values:

Both ships:
1525 hull points
12.5% evasion
Shield pool of 2338 in F4
Accuracy and damage are assumed to scale linearly with distance.
Damage to shields are in F4 while damage to hulls are in F1

Ion Cannons:
@range 5750m
Let the event that Ions hit their target be P(I)
P(I) = 101% - 12.5% = 89.5%
Rounds Per Minute (RPM) = 162
Damage Per Second (DPS) to shields = 1331.
Damage per shot to shields = DPS * 60s / RPM = 1331 * 60 / 162 ≈ 492.96
@range 525m
P(I) = 122 – (122 – 107) / (3450 – 500) * (525 – 500) – 12.5 ≈ 109.37%
DPS = 1879 – (1879 – 1746) / (3450 – 500) * (525 – 500) ≈ 1880.13
Damage per shot to shields = 1890.13 * 60 / 162 ≈ 696.34

Quad Lasers:
@range 5750m
Let the event that Quads will hit their target be P(Q)
P(Q) = 91 + (101 – 91) / (6038 – 3622) * (6038 – 5750) – 12.5 ≈ 79.69%
RPM = 162
DPS (shield) = 792 + (978 - 792) / (6038 – 3622) * (6038 – 5750) ≈ 814.17
DPS (hull) = 938 + (1159 – 938) / (6038 – 3622) * (6038 – 5750) ≈ 964.34
Per shot shield = 814.14 * 60 / 162 ≈ 301.55
Per shot hull = 964.34 * 60 /162 * 1.25 ≈ 446.45
@range 525m
P(Q) = 116 – 12.5 = 103.5%
DPS (shield) = 1053
DPS (hull) = 1247
Per shot shield = 1053 * 60 / 162 = 390
Per shot hull = 1247 * 60 /162 * 1.25 ≈ 577.31

Heavy Lasers:
@range 5750m
Let the event that Heavies will hit their target be P(H)
P(H) = 101 + (106 - 101) / (7849 – 3622) * (7849 – 5750) – 12.5 ≈ 90.98%
RPM = 120
DPS (shield) = 845 + (902 - 845) / (7849 – 3622) * (7849 – 5750) ≈ 873.30
DPS (hull) = 913 + (974 – 913) / (7849 – 3622) * (7849 – 5750) ≈ 943.29
Per shot shield = 873.30 * 60 / 120 ≈ 436.65
Per shot hull = 943.29 * 60 /120 * 1.25 ≈ 589.56
@range 525m
P(H) = 111 – 12.5 = 98.5%
DPS (shield) = 1006
DPS (hull) = 1087
Per shot shield = 1006 * 60 / 120 = 503
Per shot hull = 1087 * 60 /120 * 1.25 = 679.375

Calculating the probability of one build to eliminate the other

@range 5750m

Required number of ion shots: 2338 / 492.96 ≈ 4.74
5 ion shots are required to strip shields with negligible overflow damage to hull.
Let the event that all 5 ion shots hit & remove shields be P(Si).
Each shot is independent from each other.
Ergo,
P(Si) = P(I∩I∩I∩I∩I) = P(I)P(I)P(I)P(I)P(I) = .895^5 ≈ 57.43%

Pile driving stage to strip shields:
4th Quad with an overflow of 178.15 hull damage.

This calculation for this is derived from http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=944782
Here's the dcap piledriver, with a rotation that seems to be possible much of the time:
0: Heavy1
0+small: swap, Quad1 (at this point you are waiting with your finger over 1)
0.37 Quad2, swap, begin spamming 1
0.5 Heavy2
0.67ish, the spammed swap happens
0.74, Quad3
.97ish, the spammed swap happens
1.00, Heavy3. This is the end of the normal piledriver burst window. But if we continue following:
1.11 - quad comes off cooldown, but you are stuck on heavies.
1.27, the spammed swap happens, firing Quad4
1.50 - heavy comes off cooldown, but you are stuck on quads
1.57, the spammed swap happens, firing Heavy4

Let the event that all shots up to the 4th Quads stage hits be P(Sq).
Ergo,
P(Sq) = P(H∩Q∩Q∩H∩Q∩H∩Q)
= P(H)P(H)P(H)P(Q)P(Q)P(Q)P(Q)
= .9098^3 * .7969^4
≈ 30.37%

Heavy shots required by the ion build to eliminate hulls:
1525 / 589.56 ≈ 2.59
3 heavy shots are required.
Let the event that all shots from the ion build to eliminate hulls hit be P(Hull i).
P(Hull i) = P(H∩H∩H) = P(H)P(H)P(H) = .9098^3 ≈ 75.31%

Pile driving stage to eliminate hulls:
By the second Quad shot or by the second Heavy shot. I.e. H,Q,Q or H, one of the quads, H
It is assumed that the pile driving rotation reset by the next Heavy shot. The overflow of 178.15 hull damage is included here. While that number is derived from damage per shot to shields, the increase of damage to hulls does not affect the number of shots required by this build to eliminate hulls.
The reason for the option is that both events would happen by the same time.
Let the event that both options occur be P(Hull q).
P(Hull q) = P((H∩Q∩Q)∪((H∩H)∪Q))
P(H∩Q∩Q) = P(H)P(Q)P(Q)
P((H∩H)∪Q) = P(H)P(H) + P(Q) – P(H)P(H)P(Q)
P(Hull q) = P(H)P(Q)P(Q) + P(H)P(H) + P(Q) – P(H)P(H)P(Q) – P(H) P(Q)
= .9098*.7969^2 + .9098^2 + .7969 - .9098^2 * .7969 - .9098^3 * .7969^3
≈ 81.78%

Now that the probability of eliminating hulls has been calculated within its own sample space i.e.
P(Hull∪!Hull) = 1

We need to find the probability of eliminating hulls in terms of the entire sample space -i.e full elimination of the target. The entire sample space includes the probability to strip shields and its complement.

The probability of eliminating hulls is a sequential event contained within the probability to successfully strip shields.
i.e. P(S|(Hull∪!Hull) ) = 1
Ergo after stripping shields, either hulls are eliminated, or they are not.

Let the event that hulls were eliminated within the entire sample space be P(E)
Therefore,
P(E) = P(Hull∩S) = P(Hull|S) * P(S)

Or in other words P(E) is a proportion of P(S).

Finally we get:
The probability that the ions build will eliminate its target:
P(Ei) = P(Hull i)P(Si) = .7531 * .5743 ≈ 43.25%

The probability that the quad+hvy build will eliminate its target:
P(Eq) = P(Hull q)P(Sq) = .8178 * .3037 ≈ 24.84%

Luck appears to favour the ions build at maximum ion range. This is due to the low accuracy of the quads and heavy build where more shots matter to strip its target’s shields -Ions wins more at removing shields than quads + hvy wins at eliminating hull.

Here are the timelines of both events:
Ions:
0s – First ion shot
1.48s – Fifth ion shot + swap to heavies
1.48s – First heavy shot
2.48s – Third heavy shot. Target eliminated.

Quad + hvy
0s – First heavy shot
1.27s – Fourth quad shot and shields stripped
1.57s – Fourth heavy / first heavy in reset rotation
2.0s – Sixth quad or swapped fifth heavy. Target eliminated
Q
H 2.5s – extra shots able to be squeeze in within the same time ions would eliminate quads.

The extra shots quads and heavy are able to dish out within the same timeframe would definitely help in improving its probability of stripping shields. As exploring this area requires finding a plethora of combinations and unions in appropriate proportions for shield & hull damage, I am unsure how to calculate that at the moment. More help would be appreciated for this part. However, because so many shots need to be chained for quads + hvy to strip shields, I am confident that P(Eq) <= P(Ei) regardless.

The best scenario where quads + hvy might beat ions is by ensuring more shots hit. This can be achieved by closing the distance between the targets. In the next part we will explore the other bound where quads and heavies are most accurate. If within the range between quads as least accurate to quads as most accurate quads + hvy beats ions, it is worthwhile exploring a breakpoint.

@range 525m
Fore note: this part gets wacky due to over 100% accuracy. Setting events where the probability exceeds 100% to 1 will be explored after.

Shots required for the ion build to strip shields:
3 ions, then 1 heavy shot (swapping on the third ion). Overflow of 254.02 hull damage.
P(Si) = P(I)P(I)P(I)P(H) = 1.0937^3 * .985 ≈ 128.86%
Rather than making four ion shots, it’s more efficient to have the fourth ion shot be a heavy shot that overflows to hull damage.

Pile driving stage for quads + hvy to strip shields:
Third heavy shot with an overflow of 341 hull damage.
P(Sq) = P(H)P(Q)P(Q)P(H)P(Q)P(H) = .985^3 * 1.035^3 ≈ 110.87%

Shots required by the ion build to eliminate hulls:
2 heavy shots
P(Hull i) = P(H)P(H) = .985^2 ≈ 97.02%

Pile driving stage for quads + hvy to eliminate hulls:
Fourth heavy shot.
P(Hull q) = P(Q)P(H) = 1.035 * .985 ≈ 101.95%

P(Ei) = P(Si)P(Hull i) = 1.2886 * .9702 ≈ 125.02%
P(Eq) = P(Sq)P(Hull q) = 1.1087 * 1.0195 ≈ 113.03%

Theoretically the ions build still beats the quads and heavy build. Now let’s calculate it in a way that makes more practical sense:

P(Ei) = P(I)P(I)P(I)P(H) * P(H)P(H) where P(I) = 1
P(Ei) = P(H)P(H)P(H) * 1

P(Eq) = P(H)P(Q)P(Q)P(H)P(Q)P(H) * P(Q)P(H) where P(Q) = 1
P(Eq) = P(H)P(H)P(H)P(H) * 1

Since P(H) < 1, P(Ei) > P(Eq).

But for explicitness sake:
P(Ei) ≈ 95.57%
P(Eq) ≈ 94.13%

As a practical argument, it is worth noting that Ions has a significantly lower tracking penalty than quads.

Timelines:

Ions:
0s – First ion shot
1.11s – Third ion shot + swap
1.11s – First heavy shot. Shields stripped.
2.11s – Third heavy shot. Target eliminated.

Quads + hvy:
0s – First heavy shot
1s – Third heavy shot. Shields stripped.
1.57s – Fourth heavy shot. Target eliminated.
2.07s – Extra HQQH combo.

A HQQH combo at such high accuracy is definitely worth exploring. Alas I’ll leave it here for now. I may continue the exploration after. If others are interested in exploring this calculation, be my guest! Let’s work on this problem together.

cheese_cake's Avatar


cheese_cake
02.19.2020 , 06:53 PM | #2
In F1 power setting for both shields and hulls:
Shield piercing is accounted for in this version. Pile Driving with the ion build is much more thoroughly considered too.

TL;DR
Again at all ranges the ions build has a higher theoretical probability to win the joust. At extreme close ranges the difference is marginal. At extreme close ranges the quads build can utilise a rotation with a marginally lower chance to eliminate its target with an approx. .23s lower time to kill.

Both ships:
1525 hull points
12.5% evasion
Shield pool of 2104.2 in F1
Accuracy and damage are assumed to scale linearly with distance.

Ion Cannons:
@range 5750m
Let the event that Ions hit their target be P(I)
P(I) = 89.5%
Damage per shot to shields ≈ 492.96 * 1.25 ≈ 616.2
@range 525m
P(I) ≈ 109.37%
Damage per shot to shields ≈ 696.34 * 1.25 ≈ 870.425

Quad Lasers:
@range 5750m
Let the event that Quads will hit their target be P(Q)
P(Q) ≈ 79.69%
Per shot shield ≈ 301.55 * 1.25 ≈ 376.9375
Per shot hull ≈ 446.45
@range 525m
P(Q) = 103.5%
Per shot shield = 390 * 1.25 = 487.5
Per shot hull ≈ 577.31

Heavy Lasers:
@range 5750m
Let the event that Heavies will hit their target be P(H)
P(H) ≈ 90.98%
Per shot shield ≈ 436.65 * 1.25 ≈ 545.8125
Per shot hull ≈ 589.56
@range 525m
P(H) = 111 – 12.5 = 98.5%
Per shot shield = 503 * 1.25 = 628.75
Per shot hull = 679.375

Calculating probabilities:

@range 5750m

Pile driving stage of ion build to strip shields:
Second heavy shot with an overflow of 219.825 damage to hulls. This takes shield penetration from heavies into account.
Let the event that all shots up to the second heavy shot hits & remove shields for the ion build be P(Si).
P(Si) = P(H ∩ I ∩ I ∩ H) = P(H)P(I)P(I)P(H) = .895^2 * .9098^2 ≈ 66.30%

Pile driving stage of the quads build to strip shields:
Third quad shot with an overflow of 118.2375 damage.
Let the event that all shots up to the third quad shot hits & remove shields for the quads build be P(Sq).
P(Si) = P(H ∩ Q ∩ Q ∩ H ∩ Q) = P(H)P(Q)P(Q)P(H)P(Q) = .7969^3 * .9098^2 ≈ 41.89%

Shots required by the ion build to eliminate hulls:
3 heavy shots.
Let the event that all shots required by the ion build to eliminate hulls be P(Hull i).
P(Hull i) = P(H ∩ H ∩ H) = P(H)P(H)P(H) = .9098^3 ≈ 75.31%

Pile driving stage by the quads build required to eliminate hulls:
Fourth heavy shot.
Let the event that all shots after the third quad shot to the fourth Heavy shot hits from the quads build to eliminate hulls be P(Hull q).
P(Hull q) = P(H ∩ Q ∩ H) = P(H)P(Q)P(H) = .9098^2 * .7969 ≈ 65.96%

P(Ei) = P(Si)P(Hull i) = .6630 * .7531 ≈ 49.93%
P(Eq) = P(Sq)P(Hull q) = .4189 * .6596 ≈ 27.63%

Timelines:
Ion build:
0s – First heavy shot & swap.
.5s – Second ion shot & swap.
.5s – Second heavy shot. Shields stripped.
2s – Fifth heavy shot. Target eliminated.

Quads build:
0s – First heavy shot.
.74s – Third quad shot. Shields stripped.
1.57s – Fourth heavy shot on swap. Target eliminated.

The cooldown of the systems ability is .5s. The quads build will not be able to squeeze in another shot before the 2s mark. In the scenario where both ships are in F1 the entire duration at maximum ion range, the ion build is about twice as likely to eliminate its target.

If instead the quads build waits till the 1.11s mark after the third quad shot to do its HQQH combo, it can theoretically finish its target by the 1.61s mark. It will need either HQH or HQQ to finish its target.

The alternative P(Hull q):
P(Hull q) = P(((H ∩H) ∩(Q ∪ Q))∪((Q ∩Q)∩(H ∪H)))
P((H ∩H) ∩(Q ∪ Q)) = P(H)P(H) * (P(Q) + P(Q) – P(Q)P(Q)) ≈ 79.36%
P((Q ∩Q)∩(H ∪H)) = P(Q)P(Q) * (P(H) + P(H) – P(H)P(H)) ≈ 62.99%
P(Hull q) ≈ .7936 + .6299 - .7936 * .6299 ≈ 92.36%

Alternative P(Eq) ≈ .4189 * .9236 ≈ 38.69%

The alternative is mutually exclusive from the first iteration i.e. both cannot happen at the same time. While the alternative bumps the probability of the quads build to win by about an additional 10%, it is still about 10% behind the ion build. Either the quads build eliminates its target within the <2s window, or it does not.

@range 525

Pile driving on ions for total target elimination:
The ion build can strip shields within the .5s window with either two ions then one heavy (265.4 damage to hull) or one heavy then two ions (94.3125 damage to hull). Shield piercing accounted for. The time to kill for both events are the same, but the latter event requires 3 heavy shots to connect on hull whereas the former requires two. Because of this the calculation will consider the union of both entire events.

Let the event of the IIH ion option for full target elimination be P(Ei1) and the HII option be P(Ei2).
P(Ei1) = P(I ∩ I ∩H ∩ H ∩H)) = P(I)P(I)P(H)P(H)P(H)
P(Ei2) = P(H ∩ I ∩ I ∩H ∩ H ∩H)) = P(H)P(I)P(I)P(H)P(H)P(H)

Ergo,
P(Ei) = P(Ei1 ∪ Ei2)

Where P(I) = 1
P(Ei) = P(H)P(H)P(H) + P(H)P(H)P(H)P(H) - P(H)P(H)P(H)P(H)P(H)P(H)P(H) ≈ 99.74%

Pile driving stage of the quads build to strip shields:
Second heavy shot with an overflow of 128.3 damage.
Let the event that all shots up to the second shot shot hits & remove shields for the quads build be P(Sq).
P(Sq) = P(H ∩ Q ∩ Q ∩ H) = P(H)P(Q)P(Q)P(H)

Pile driving stage by the quads build required to eliminate hulls:
Fourth quad shot
Let the event that all shots after the second heavy shot to the fourth quad shot hits from the quads build to eliminate hulls be P(Hull q).
P(Hull q) = P(Q ∩ H ∩ Q) = P(Q)P(H)P(Q)

Where P(Q) = 1,
P(Eq) = P(H)P(H)P(H) ≈ 95.57%

Alternatively, the quads build can wait .5s to do its HQQH combo again. This will align its Time to Kill with the ion build. In this case the quads build needs to nail one of HQQ, QQH, or HQH.

P(Hull q alternative) = P(HQQ ∪ QQH ∪ HQH)
= P(HQQ) + P(QQH) + P(HQH) – P(HQQ)P(QQH) – P(HQQ)P(HQH) – P(QQH)P(HQH) + P(HQQ)P(QQH)P(HQH)

Where P(Q) = 1,
P(Hull q alternative) = P(H) + P(H) +P(H)P(H) – P(H)P(H) – P(H)P(H)P(H) – P(H)P(H)P(H) + P(H)P(H)P(H)P(H)
= 2*P(H) – 2*P(H)^3 + P(H)^4
≈ 100%

P(Eq alternative) ≈ 97.02% (Equal TTK to ions)
P(Eq) stated again ≈ 95.57% (shorter TTK than ions)
P(Ei) stated again: ≈ 99.74%

Timelines:

Ion:
0s –First heavy & ion shot
.5s – Second ion shot & second heavy shot. Shields stripped.
1.5s – Fourth total possible heavy shot. Target eliminated.

Quads:
0s – First heavy shot
.5s – Second heavy shot. Shields stripped.
Either:
1.27s – Fourth quad shot. Target eliminated.
OR:
1s – Wait till combo resets and fire new first heavy shot.
1.5s – One of HQQ, QQH, or HQH. Target eliminated.

Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
02.20.2020 , 03:19 PM | #3
Conventional wisdom usually says Piledriver beats Ions/ HLC in a joust doesn't it?

I piledrive exclusively on the T1 strike. (no I do not claim elite ace master level of skill ) but my experience is that all other things being equal, the double hit damage power of piledrive always beats Ion/ HLC in a straight joust.

There are times when I have lost jousts against non-piledrivers. But this tends to bring those other factors into play. As the first shot of Piledriver needs to be an HLC bolt for the rotation to work, you are at a tracking disadvantage where last second turning is involved. While you're still waiting for your reticle to be precisely in situ to start shooting, Ions allow for good accuracy as you are still coming out of the turn. Piledriver needs to be 100% lined up. Leading to your shields being stripped almost before you start shooting. I've been beaten by Ions/ HLC + range cap and tier 4 range option. It was damn close, but as we flew toward each other his range just got the edge. And also a few times by Ions/ RFL at very close range, again due to much better tracking of both weapons as we frantically turn to face each other.

So piledriver is not unbeatable in a joust, and really good pilots aren't easy to shoot down no matter what, but if we are talking about a mathematical situation where skill / scenario / pressure are not factored into it... then surely Piledriver wins this contest?

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
02.20.2020 , 04:22 PM | #4
Well first up I'm going to address the math, this is really freaking hard to read man. Not only that it feels almost impossible to try to check your numbers since your timelines are like "here's the answer I got".

If you do decide to do something like this again I'd recommend a time line something like:

-0s Ion shot (Damage to shield) (Total damage the target's taken so far) (Accuracy of the shot)
-0.37s Ion shot (Damage to shield) (Total damage the target's taken so far) (Accuracy of the shot)
ect...

This way we can follow along and see exactly how much damage they've taken and easily see what's going on. It let's us check your math a long the way too, that way if there is a mistake at some point we can easily see where it happened.

Next up in your first post you put the weapon swapping at a 0.3 second cooldown and in the second one it's got a 0.5 second cooldown. Please if you're going to change something that drastic edit the first post or delete or something, THIS IS SUPER CONFUSING for anyone that isn't really familiar with this stuff. Hell you don't even explain why you changed this value!

I do like math based posts like this one, but I feel like maybe you needed to spend a little more time evaluating what you were trying to say and how to get anyone that read your post to be able to understand it.


Now onto the practical aspect, mostly to answer Ttoilleekul's question.

Pile Driver will almost always win the joust and there's a few factors here on why, I'll try to go over them quickly.

First up, the activation of Quick charge shields hurts the Heavy/Ion build way more then the Piledriver. All you have to do is wait for them to swap off of Ion's and fire that first Heavy shot then activate QCS. This will give you sudden boost of shields that should help you absorb 2 additional Heavy shots, bonus points for doing it just as the second Heavy is going to fire, so they have less time to swap to Ions. QCS doesn't hurt Pile driver in anyways they just keep doing their thing and piling on damage.

Next up, Pile driver actually wins the damage race, the only reason the math says Heavy/Ions wins is because here's a higher chance Piledriver will miss a shot. However if you simply activate Wingman, Pile driver now has 99%+ accuracy on all shots and will always win the damage race.

Lastly, when dealing damage in pvp you want your damage to do as much damage as possible at the end if possible, so while Ion/Heavy will strip the shields super freaking fast it takes much longer to kill the hull. Many players only start defensive flying once they've lost their shields, against the Ion's this gives them tons of time to simply leave the joust if they think they're losing.


Now as for build vs build in general play that isn't a joust, Pile driver wins by a huge margin.

Heavy/Ions require a ridiculous amount more paying attention of when they're shields are going to run out, so you lose a ton of map/spacial awareness while playing it.

There's also the fact that EMP and Slicing are very popular abilities and being locked into Ion's is freaking awful.



I've actually been playing a bunch of Ion/Heavy this week on some alts to get a better feel of how to answer this post and let me tell you it is not a fun ship to play vs anyone even remotely decent. You constantly get locked into Ions, which leaves you with no way to finish your targets. I actually had to fire 11 Ion laser shots at a Strike a couple of days ago just to get a kill because I was locked into Ions for 47 seconds. (Yeah I counted, I was furious)

Now let me tell you what the Ion/Heavy is good at. Farming terrible players! This ship is super efficient on weapon power, so if you don't have anyone bothering at you all, and all your targets are barely fighting back, this ship is going to get you huge scoreboard numbers. However as soon as you start fighting decent opponents you start being at a huge disadvantage and can easily be locked down out of fights.
DrakolichDrakolνch
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Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
02.22.2020 , 01:56 PM | #5
Interesting that you use Wingman for Piledriver. Do you mostly play in a team with heals? I fly solo 90% of the time. We socialise a lot on GSF chat, but there's a fair amount of us that prefer to give matchmaker a chance rather than stomp in powerful pre-mades. Without getting into that debate, I find it absolutely necessary to use Hydro-spanner flying solo on Darth Malgus. It really helps you mitigate damage, while piledriver is still powerful enough to beat 90% of pilots in a joust, save for the odd few aces, and even then we often avoid jousting each other as it comes down to RNG luck. Wingman is certainly sublime with Piledriver, as is Concentrated Fire, but here on DM, you're dead meat flying that way. I have Starguard and Enforcer on my bar. Same build but Enforcer runs CF. I only use it in games I'm fairly sure I won't come under too much pressure.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
02.22.2020 , 03:31 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Ttoilleekul View Post
Interesting that you use Wingman for Piledriver. Do you mostly play in a team with heals? I fly solo 90% of the time. We socialise a lot on GSF chat, but there's a fair amount of us that prefer to give matchmaker a chance rather than stomp in powerful pre-mades. Without getting into that debate, I find it absolutely necessary to use Hydro-spanner flying solo on Darth Malgus. It really helps you mitigate damage, while piledriver is still powerful enough to beat 90% of pilots in a joust, save for the odd few aces, and even then we often avoid jousting each other as it comes down to RNG luck. Wingman is certainly sublime with Piledriver, as is Concentrated Fire, but here on DM, you're dead meat flying that way. I have Starguard and Enforcer on my bar. Same build but Enforcer runs CF. I only use it in games I'm fairly sure I won't come under too much pressure.
I don't use Wingman for Piledriver, my point was simply that if you did, you'd always win the joust. I do know plenty of people that do use Wingman for Piledriving though.

I do mostly play as a team yes, I'd say something like 80% of my games are in a 4 man premade with my team. Maybe 10% are duo queue ing and the other 10% solo queue ing.

I mostly play Hydrospanner, however recently I've been playing with different copilot abilities since I'm really liking the more aggressive play style. I do often have other people using healing abilities, but also on Starforge there's very often someone on the team playing Repair drone that isn't part of the premade. More so, if you ask for healing someone's usually willing to bring it, communication goes a long way.

I honestly don't really joust much anymore, it's not worth it. Even if you do win you take so much more damage then just catching someone by surprise later on. I usually just turn away and lead them into an ambush, either by calling it on voice if I'm with my team, or simply heading to where there aren't any red arrows on the map and many green ones.
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cheese_cake
02.26.2020 , 08:19 PM | #7
Been away for exams. Will get back to it when I can.