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J'exx's Guide to Proton Torpedoes


havokhead

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Proton torpedoes, when used properly, can be a very effective weapon. In fact, they are probably my favourite weapon to use despite the bad rap they have received here in the forums. I regularly score 10+ protorp kills every match that I use them. It's all about knowing your weapon and how best to use it.

 

-Advantages-

1) Range, protorps give a pilot great destructive capability at long distances which adds survivability as well.

2) Damage, a protorp hit really hurts. Shield and armour bypass means that damage is applied directly to hulls.

3) "One-shotting" scouts, a protorp crit usually vaporizes scouts due to advantage 2 coupled with low scout hulls.

4) "Softening-Up" targets, a single protorp hit leaves all but bombers severely crippled if not destroyed out-right.

5) "Fire-and-Forget", any foe with less than half their hull struck by a protorp is dead so once locked on and fired move on to a new target.

 

-Disadvantages-

1) Useless until tier 4, without speed boost protorps are easily outrun.

2) Difficult to lock on, a small targeting reticle and long lock-on time means harder targeting.

3) Slow re-load times, sometimes would-be targets get away while your protorp is reloading.

4) Limited ammo, not a huge issue but can be a nuisance without ammo replenishment.

 

-Tips-

1) Stay at range!! The small reticle means targets at closer range easily out maneuver your ability to lock on, staying at range helps negate this as wider ranges of movement at range stay in the reticle more consistently. Protorps under 6000m are very difficult to lock-on unless you're going head-to-head. In this case switch weapons.

2) At tier 4 grab missile speed boost, your success in hitting targets goes from roughly 30% to 90%, that's HUGE!

3) At tier 5 grab the range increase, going from 9800 to 11500m is a big advantage when your weapon is meant for long range.

4) Look for targets that just blew their missile break. Studying the battlefield from range, you can easily see foes blowing engine abilities and DF. Take that opportunity to lock-on and fire.

5) Choose targets out in the open or headed for open space. Long lock-ons means Line-of-sight is a problem. Don't waste valuable time trying to target enemies weaving through asteroids or ship yards. Move on to a new target or switch weapons.

6) Take crew members that add reticle bonus, get all the targeting help you can. Extra ammo and faster re-loads don't mean much when you aren't hitting anything to begin with.

 

Like anything else, it's simply maximizing advantages while minimizing disadvantages. Good luck and happy hunting.

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Just no.

T4 with wider arcs is WAY better. With one you can actually acquiere a lock on a few things under 5k.Get your arc as wide as you canif you plan to use a torpedo.

No scout ever will get killed by a torp launched from over 500m. Even with the speed boost, the delay is just long enough to fire a breaker.. And you are without torp for 12s.... Power Dive is up every 10s. Close range torpedoes are way more deadly than speeded long range torpedoes.

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Lol, I kill scouts all the time, read my guide fully, you gotta look for people popping missile breaks to be effective. So what you're saying is the only way for a protorp to be effective is to chase people with it locked on at close range? And hope while you're locked on chasing people you don't get shot down? I'm not saying you're way won't work but it's a lot more effort to get a kill and your survivability must tank since you're always charging at everyone. I run a 10-1 K/D ratio my way. Wouldn't your method be more successful with concussion missiles? Larger reticle, closer range and more damage?....
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Lol, I kill scouts all the time, read my guide fully, you gotta look for people popping missile breaks to be effective. So what you're saying is the only way for a protorp to be effective is to chase people with it locked on at close range? And hope while you're locked on chasing people you don't get shot down? I'm not saying you're way won't work but it's a lot more effort to get a kill and your survivability must tank since you're always charging at everyone. I run a 10-1 K/D ratio my way. Wouldn't your method be more successful with concussion missiles? Larger reticle, closer range and more damage?....

 

I run this method mainly on a Imperium able to actually tank the damage with CP, PD and Probes or Direct, PD and Slicing or on Troll Double Torp. My Quell and Rycer are running with Cluster/Conc.

 

Problems with your method IMO is you're completely ineffective on a sat, you end up being an easy target for gunships. I guess your method would totally work with a Quell running HLC and Cluster.. But you don't get high KDR with Protorp but with Clusters. Clusters and Supression can basicly land kills on scouts way better than a Protorp. Any scout can delay a Protorp lock by at least 10s... And PD is free.

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Lol, I kill scouts all the time, read my guide fully, you gotta look for people popping missile breaks to be effective. So what you're saying is the only way for a protorp to be effective is to chase people with it locked on at close range? And hope while you're locked on chasing people you don't get shot down? I'm not saying you're way won't work but it's a lot more effort to get a kill and your survivability must tank since you're always charging at everyone. I run a 10-1 K/D ratio my way. Wouldn't your method be more successful with concussion missiles? Larger reticle, closer range and more damage?....
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Lol, I kill scouts all the time, read my guide fully, you gotta look for people popping missile breaks to be effective. So what you're saying is the only way for a protorp to be effective is to chase people with it locked on at close range? And hope while you're locked on chasing people you don't get shot down? I'm not saying you're way won't work but it's a lot more effort to get a kill and your survivability must tank since you're always charging at everyone. I run a 10-1 K/D ratio my way. Wouldn't your method be more successful with concussion missiles? Larger reticle, closer range and more damage?....

 

Eh?? Repost much?

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Are you saying you shoot down satellite defenses with protorps? Are you saying you run this Imperium build all the time or just to take satellites during domination matches? My way you can run protorps on any fighter and in any situation. Your way is only on a specialty build in certain circumstances and I'm the one who's wrong? I would love to see your build at work in a death match, how can you chase down anything for close range protorps in an Imperium? Besides if you're chasing everything to close range how are you supporting your team with repair probes? If you are shooting down satellite defences with protorps then I'd rethink that, you have 8 torpedoes and you wasted 3 to take a satellite and 1 or 2 more on a bomber?
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Havok/Jexx you have a big misunderstanding as to how missiles work. You can not out run a missile. Once a missle is locked you either have to use a missile break or it hits regardless of how far you run. The only thing in the game you can outrun are seeker mines. Edited by Lendul
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Decent guide with some good tips, but I'm going to have to disagree with some of your points.

 

1) Useless until tier 4, without speed boost protorps are easily outrun.

 

This may have been the case pre-engine nerf when all engine missile breaks had a 10 second cooldown, but not so much any more. With longer cooldowns, it is much easier to hit with missiles than it was pre-nerf.

 

In fact, you seem to be saying that protorps are not viable without the speed upgrade, which could not be farther from the truth. The t4 option that increases the arc is absolutely useful, and in fact you later point out the need for having a larger arc to help in aquiring locks. In any case, using the t4 speed boost is in no way a necessity or a no-brainer.

 

2) At tier 4 grab missile speed boost, your success in hitting targets goes from roughly 30% to 90%, that's HUGE!

 

I'm curious where you got this figure from. If you can provide a source or solid reasoning to back this up, I'd like to hear it, otherwise it sounds like you just made it up.

 

Havok/Jexx you have a big misunderstanding as to how missiles work. You can not out run a missile. Once a missle is locked you either have to use a missile break or it hits regardless of how far you run. The only thing in the game you can outrun are seeker mines.

 

Indeed, you can't outrun missiles. You can only buy yourself enough time for your missile break to come off cooldown, in which case you still need enough engine power to activate it. Also there are times when your missile break is disabled, such as with Slicing or Sabotage Probe, that would prevent you from "outrunning" it. Though, I've never heard of being able to outrun Seeker Mines, are you sure this is the case?

 

 

Again, some solid tips overall. I'll add some of my own: Holding a missile lock can be very useful, especially when you can use it to get a jumpy pilot to blow their missile break. In that case, simply wait a couple seconds and acquire the lock again, since you won't have the reload time from actually launching the torp.

 

Also, charging in and releasing the torp at point blank range can be quite effective (not to mention satisfying). It can be employed against a scout or strike that is attacking another target. They will be holding off their break while trying to maximize their dps on target, relying on the fact that they have a missile break primed and ready to go. Often the missile will hit before they have a chance to react to it.

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Awesome tips!

 

Personally I think targeting arc vs speed is more of a personal choice, they both have their merits. If you like the point blank proton style of course you are going to like the extra arc, if you like the long range missile sniper type play you will really need that speed upgrade.

 

As for "outrunning missiles" this term is more on the lines of running until your missile break comes off cooldown. The slow missile gives them more time to have a missile break come back up.

 

@Lendul, I'm pretty sure seeker mines work exactly as regular missiles once they have locked on to you and the only way to break them is with a missile break. I will however test this now and try to outrun seekers that have locked on to me.

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Are you saying you shoot down satellite defenses with protorps? Are you saying you run this Imperium build all the time or just to take satellites during domination matches? My way you can run protorps on any fighter and in any situation. Your way is only on a specialty build in certain circumstances and I'm the one who's wrong? I would love to see your build at work in a death match, how can you chase down anything for close range protorps in an Imperium? Besides if you're chasing everything to close range how are you supporting your team with repair probes? If you are shooting down satellite defences with protorps then I'd rethink that, you have 8 torpedoes and you wasted 3 to take a satellite and 1 or 2 more on a bomber?

 

You obviously missed my point. How can you actually be of any use on an Imperium if you can't fight in the middle of your team... With your use of torpedoes I would be sitting 7-10km behind my team, totally useless beyond a threatening lock-on with no actual threat. Your build is so specialized in long range combat you end up being useless as soon as the combat come close to you. My way is actually allowing you to run protorp if you so wish on the Quell and the Rycer.. It is definately less powerful on a Rycer since you're missing the Ion Cluster combo.. It is viable on a Quell tho. Your build is viable on only ONE ship. The Quell. And it's only because the Quell can actually field dangerous close range weaponry. No other ship can use a torpedo with such a small arc without becoming useless where 60% of fights happens (at 15 km and under 3km). Between.... If you target people who already used their lock..... You have two situations... Either it wn't be back before the torpedo lands or it will. The speed boost reduce this time but raise the lock-on time by making it way easier to get out of your arc. And launched at 10km.. Your speeded up Protorp can still be outrunned just long enough to get a breaker back up. Remember most ships have an average of 12s between locks (only with higher is the Rycer (15s), Quell (20s), Dustmaker (20s))... More than enough to neuter your Protorp.

 

At 10km you are an easy target for any gunship. The closer you get, the harder it gets to actually pin you down with a railgun.

 

Where did I said I was taking turrets out with torpedoes? You shouldn't do that (except during the 10km - > 5km phase where you can't do anything else) Anyway, even Quad will destroy a turret before you get a full lock with a Protorp. My point is way more about either being in range for fighting effectively on a sat and not being so far away the enemy can just hide and cap. Or being so far from the sat, an Ion rail would leave neutered and dead-to-be.

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I guess I just don't understand the logic behind choosing protorps for short to mid-range combat vrs concussion missiles. The only advantage protorps have over concussion missiles other than range is shield piercing. You get more concussion missiles, a shorter re-load time, a shorter lock-on time and a huge targeting reticle compared to protorps. All these factors make concussion much more viable at mid- to short-range.
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I guess I just don't understand the logic behind choosing protorps for short to mid-range combat vrs concussion missiles. The only advantage protorps have over concussion missiles other than range is shield piercing. You get more concussion missiles, a shorter re-load time, a shorter lock-on time and a huge targeting reticle compared to protorps. All these factors make concussion much more viable at mid- to short-range.

Just try the point blank proton play style for a while and it should make a little more sense to you. The strength in a proton is the same strength of BLC and Slug it is insane burst damage. Something you left off you guide is that proton critical hits are the only thing the game that can one shot not only scouts, but gunships as well. They don't just have shield piercing they have armor piercing also thus they do (True) damage that can not be reduced.

 

Also in the close range proton game play if you are using a T2 which I assume you are since you said switch missiles when you are close range. It is not necessarily a choice between concussion and proton. You can use both and bait missile breaks with the concussion. If you want to try this style you will need to emphasize arc, reload, ammo and what most leave out, speed on your thrusters or engine or both because obviously closing the gap quickly is key. It also allows you to get out quickly. I have found that QCS is mandatory for this style though because of the boosting involved. It is also way more fun than the missile turret style

Edited by Lendul
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I'm glad we're having this debate, truly. I'm realizing there are more ways to use proton torpedoes but I stand by my guide, to truly maximize their effectiveness while maintaining battlefield awareness and survivability they are best used at range. I would not gunship hunt in a strike fighter they're too vulnerable to be out on their own in the middle of space behind the heavy fighting where gunships are lurking. Also, I'm sure you can 1-shot a gunship point-blank and yes a point-blank kill with protorps is fun but T1 & T2 scouts are much better at this job than any strike fighter, they have the killing power and the ability to survive. I just don't understand why you would charge at an enemy to release a missile point-blank and risk heavy exposure to achieve it when you get the same results from 3 times further that's roughly 80% of all weapons not aimed at you. As for the gunship vulnerability, yes you can be targeted easier but you can't be 1-shotted by a GS in a strike and I'm not dumb enough to sit there and be shot again. I strive for a 10-1 kill/death ratio in all ships and I just can't see a strike fighter that has to fly three times further increasing exposure and burning up engine power not getting chewed up more.

 

As for missile speed, at range, it is a huge factor perhaps your play style doesn't make it as noticeable.

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I'm glad we're having this debate, truly. I'm realizing there are more ways to use proton torpedoes but I stand by my guide, to truly maximize their effectiveness while maintaining battlefield awareness and survivability they are best used at range. I would not gunship hunt in a strike fighter they're too vulnerable to be out on their own in the middle of space behind the heavy fighting where gunships are lurking. Also, I'm sure you can 1-shot a gunship point-blank and yes a point-blank kill with protorps is fun but T1 & T2 scouts are much better at this job than any strike fighter, they have the killing power and the ability to survive. I just don't understand why you would charge at an enemy to release a missile point-blank and risk heavy exposure to achieve it when you get the same results from 3 times further that's roughly 80% of all weapons not aimed at you. As for the gunship vulnerability, yes you can be targeted easier but you can't be 1-shotted by a GS in a strike and I'm not dumb enough to sit there and be shot again. I strive for a 10-1 kill/death ratio in all ships and I just can't see a strike fighter that has to fly three times further increasing exposure and burning up engine power not getting chewed up more.

 

As for missile speed, at range, it is a huge factor perhaps your play style doesn't make it as noticeable.

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The tips are fairly solid for improving the effectiveness of proton torpedoes.

 

The reason they tend to have a bad rep is because unless someone is in the middle of making a really stupid piloting mistake, your chance of ever hitting any ship with them is effectively zero. Mind you, I'm including bombers in that.

 

There are lots of players that aren't very skilled, so finding a target that is making a colossal piloting error (or several at the same time), isn't that hard, and even top notch pilots make them from time to time when they push the envelope just a little bit too far.

 

So Proton torpedoes can be great, but they're only great against the targets that RFLs are great against, the ones that are being completely ineffective at defending themselves.

 

 

If the target is good at missile defense, isn't using their engine maneuver for offensive purposes, and isn't in a T1 or T2 bomber, most of the time you're not even going to be able to land a concussion missile on them, never mind a torpedo.

 

I like torpedoes, and the design definitely has potential, but until missle vs missile break balance is retuned that potential is the potential to farm noobs.

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Just no.

T4 with wider arcs is WAY better. With one you can actually acquiere a lock on a few things under 5k.Get your arc as wide as you canif you plan to use a torpedo.

No scout ever will get killed by a torp launched from over 500m. Even with the speed boost, the delay is just long enough to fire a breaker.. And you are without torp for 12s.... Power Dive is up every 10s. Close range torpedoes are way more deadly than speeded long range torpedoes.

 

Simple one of my favorites is 4 degrees plus lock on to a scout hold it till they panic and blow there CD. Relock fire and forget

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The reason they tend to have a bad rep is because unless someone is in the middle of making a really stupid piloting mistake, your chance of ever hitting any ship with them is effectively zero. Mind you, I'm including bombers in that.

 

Nailed it.

 

The biggest test for anyone saying "this is a good strategy" is mostly would I also fall for this strategy? For instance, does OP find himself getting dropped by proton torpedoes reasonably often?

 

Protons are not very good at farm games compared to other options. Certainly, you get kills and they are fun, but how effective are they versus your other options? Of the ships that can use protons, the big market is the Clarion- he's the only guy without mines or concussions to use instead. Proton versus thermite is a pretty interesting choice. But successful bombers don't run protons (and ALL bombers can spec protons), nor is it particularly optimal on the type 1 strike. The type 2 strike you could argue that it's pretty optimal (there's several builds that are reasonably close in power, and some use protons), but it's such a weak ship that the argument doesn't mean much.

 

In tight games, protons are extremely frustrating to use. Landing a torp often requires a distracted or locked down target, at which point ANY weapon would have been pretty decent. It's very rare that a proton will be a superior option to an armor ignoring concussion- the proton is less damage, reloads very slowly, and locks very slowly, on top of a smallish arc.

 

Protons are worthless against decent scouts. When one of my crew gets hit by a proton in a scout, it's memorable and hilarious and I'm pretty sure it last happened in the summer. If you can kill a scout with a proton, you could have killed him with any of your other options, except faster, and with less reload time for your next target.

 

 

Of the two tier 4 options, I'm not sure which to recommend. Generally I'm still with the extra arc camp, but the double speed powerup is pretty great if you point blank the torpedo. Certainly both are pretty solid options. I forced myself to use double speed for a couple months because Drako and Stasie swore by it, and it really does up the chance to hit a target that you can get the lock on and are close to, and it's trivially superior if you are actually launching it at range. I've found that it's a bit harder than before to lock on bombers near satellites, but it's so ineffective to land protons versus them anyway that it's probably not worth selecting based on that.

 

I still think a proton guide has a lot of merit, and I generally like this thread. But protons aren't that great. That doesn't mean it's not worth discussing how to perform as well with them as they allow!

 

 

I like torpedoes, and the design definitely has potential, but until missle vs missile break balance is retuned that potential is the potential to farm noobs.

 

Totes!

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Well if I had been being fully honest, I would have said:

 

I like torpedoes, and the design definitely has potential, but until missle vs missile break balance is retuned that potential is the potential to farm noobs very slowly.

 

I didn't think that sounded quite as good though.

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No-one has mentioned the biggest strength of the proton. The fear factor. No-one wants to eat a proton. They are an excellent tool against a gun ship not because they are going to get a kill but because the gun ship needs to react, usually by moving. If a gunship is moving he isn't using his rail gun. That's a win right there. Get tone and hold it and watch your target wriggle and squirm. You don't need to fire, you don't need to get the kill. By getting your target to blow a missile break or fly evasively you just helped your team. Bombers too don't like to eat protons and so have to move, usually away from their defensive drones or mines making them easier to kill for you or your team.

A scout cannot afford to eat a proton so they must evade or missile break. If they are lining up on a team mate when you get tone you may have just saved their butt.

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Proton torpedoes, when used properly, can be a very effective weapon. In fact, they are probably my favourite weapon to use despite the bad rap they have received here in the forums. I regularly score 10+ protorp kills every match that I use them. It's all about knowing your weapon and how best to use it.

 

They get a bad rap because they are mostly useless in the meta. There are heaps of non-meta weapons that are good against average and bad players and can easily score 10+ kills a match, so that is hardly evidence that they are a good weapon. I'm sure I can get 10 kills a match using rapid fire lasers and EMP missiles if the opponent isn't good. Some components and ships are actually better at farming noobs than the meta ships/components, and I think this is why you like Protorps. For example, I find the Starguard with HLC/Ion/Retro to be better at farming noobs than the Quad/Pod Flashfire sometimes. But as soon as you try to bring that Starguard out vs. a half decent T1 GS, you are completely useless.

 

It's a good guide, and a few others have already stated some good additions so I won't repeat that. I will, however, outline why they don't work in the meta game:

 

Meta ships: T1 GS, T3 GS, T1 Scout, T2 Scout, T3 Strike, T1 Bomber, T2 Bomber

 

You will almost never land a shot on anything that has a missile break and DF. So that excludes T1 GS, T1 Scout, and T2 Scout. You're also very unlikely to land one on anything with power dive. So that excludes the T3 Strike and T3 GS (which could also run DF). That leaves your targets as the T1 Bomber and T2 Bomber. You'll need to land 3 protorps to kill those guys, assuming no healing. That will take almost an entire minute assuming no LoS and assuming no one is shooting at you. If you want to shoot a torpedo at a bomber you should be using the one designed to kill them - the thermite.

 

That being said, they are fun to use. And with the point blank method you might get lucky and get 1 or 2 kills on a scout. Perhaps the best use of Protorps is using them with damage overcharge against bombers in deathmatch right before your scouts make a rush in on the enemy gunships.

Edited by RickDagles
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