http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=984359

is proof that there is an abhorrent lack of attention to the pvp in this game other than that it exist. PvP toxicity has been around before this game was even conceived. The problem is addressing the issue in different way in the early stages of a game's life before it gets bad. The fact that it has been allowed to get as bad as it apparently is, to the point you need to make a forum post addressing it, says volumes.

First, let me say that the toxicity, as I see it, comes as a straight result of boredom and inherent, basic problems that are fundamental to the pvp in this game. Meaning, class imbalance issues, lack of game modes, the design of the current ranked gameplay (arena deathmatch), are all contributors, and work together to form this horrible environment of "competitive pvp" in this game. This is by far some of the worse implementations of "competitive pvp" in any game out there in terms of design and quality. The class imbalance issue is more of a problem here than most other mmo's with a competitive pvp system. Hint: no game has perfect or close to it balance, but SWTOR is definitely sc****** the bottom of the barrel on who has the worst systems and designs.

I mentioned in another post the old 8v8's that we used to have. During that time of 8v8's toxicity, as seen today, was virtually absent. If anything, it was more about just trying to get people to que in general. The point of bringing this up again in this thread is to inject creativity by reminding of things that worked and did not need changed. If you want toxicity to go down, the get people doing competitive pvp that isn't boring or brainless. 8v8, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, objective based 8v8, etc... When there's more flavor, there's less to complain about and focus on. It creates niches that people can be competitive in a variety of pvp modes.

What won't work is just threatening players. Players are humans just like you (unless they are bots :/), and will figure out ways around every dumb system that gets put in place to "create a more positive environment". Just give people what they want and copy other games that have it working. Really not hard. You are making it hard on yourself.

It is incredibly constructive to ask the question "what needs to be changed/added/removed to make PVP and Ranked PVP less toxic and more engaging" instead of "how to we punish toxic players"

This.

It is incredibly constructive to ask the question "what needs to be changed/added/removed to make PVP and Ranked PVP less toxic and more engaging" instead of "how to we punish toxic players"

As i posted in the pvp forum. Remove solo ranked. Solo ranked arena play is like a perfect storm of encouraging toxic behavior and shielding the players who habitually engage in toxic behavior from repercussion for it.

1. To begin with you don't even have to be pleasant enough a person to find 3 other people willing to pvp with you. You can just roll in.

2. People trying to avoid you can't even use the ignore function to keep from grouping with you. This ONLY applies in pvp, because people were afraid that the queue would NEVER pop again if it did.

3. The arena format makes using vote kick not unlike simply conceding the match. Maybe you'll get a replacement, more likely than not you're just playing one player short. 3 vs 4 is a lot worse play experience than 7 vs 8.

The end result is that not only does the standard human social consequence of being a jerk (being avoided or shunned) become impossible, but the self interest of everyone involved in their own rankings shields the worst people from already implemented solutions for bad behavior.

As i posted in the pvp forum. Remove solo ranked. Solo ranked arena play is like a perfect storm of encouraging toxic behavior and shielding the players who habitually engage in toxic behavior from repercussion for it.

 

1. To begin with you don't even have to be pleasant enough a person to find 3 other people willing to pvp with you. You can just roll in.

 

2. People trying to avoid you can't even use the ignore function to keep from grouping with you. This ONLY applies in pvp, because people were afraid that the queue would NEVER pop again if it did.

 

3. The arena format makes using vote kick not unlike simply conceding the match. Maybe you'll get a replacement, more likely than not you're just playing one player short. 3 vs 4 is a lot worse play experience than 7 vs 8.

 

The end result is that not only does the standard human social consequence of being a jerk (being avoided or shunned) become impossible, but the self interest of everyone involved in their own rankings shields the worst people from already implemented solutions for bad behavior.

It might stop some of the toxicity, but a lot of it is from groups of friends, guildies, etc. All they'll end up doings is quing together and doing the same in grouped. Hopefully with the vote kick removed, it's one form of abuse that will stop. It won't stop the abusive chat, but with the vote kick gone, people might be less toxic, if they know people will put them on ignore, and then they'll be unable to communicate during matches, and not able to kick people.

Sorry if it's muddled, but i hope you understand what I'm getting at.

You.....realize that those people will have to group up ahead of time with people who CHOOSE to group with them if there's nothing but group ranked right?

That's the point, you force them in to grouped, how much damage could they do?

we need a solution that removes them, or negates their effect

That's the point, you force them in to grouped, how much damage could they do?

we need a solution that removes them, or negates their effect

Uh, none because either they'll only have themselves to be ****** to, or their group will break apart.

It my opinion that the devs are making a big push to change the dynamics in ranked with the introduction of the new augs. The solo reg stars will bump to "granked" because of the increased chance for mats. Solos will then be freed up and, as a result, becomes more of an experiencing building venue.

Back when I played wow and was into pve, I was the guilds raid leader. During that time, I had at least 3 raid teams: an A team, B team, and C. The A team was scheduled twice a week, B and C once and I raided with each of them. If I had an A player out, I pulled from B to fill void, and from C to fill B.

If I were running a pvp guild, I would try to fill 2-3 competitive group ranked teams and use solo performance, of guild mates, to fill voids. More or less the same concept as I had used in the past with pve. There are A teams and if you want to participate with A's.....get better in the B group (solos).

The top tier players will be playing amongst themselves allowing solo to be freed up for players: 1) interested in trying it out 2) trying to get better 3) who are more casual.

This is how I read into all the changes and the devs attempts to work on toxicity.

You.....realize that those people will have to group up ahead of time with people who CHOOSE to group with them if there's nothing but group ranked right?

"Birds of a feather flock together," as they say. You're assuming that because they are nasty in Solo Ranked, they are too nasty to be able to form groups with fellow nasties, and that's an ... unwise, let's say, assumption.

As i posted in the pvp forum. Remove solo ranked. Solo ranked arena play is like a perfect storm of encouraging toxic behavior and shielding the players who habitually engage in toxic behavior from repercussion for it.

 

1. To begin with you don't even have to be pleasant enough a person to find 3 other people willing to pvp with you. You can just roll in.

 

2. People trying to avoid you can't even use the ignore function to keep from grouping with you. This ONLY applies in pvp, because people were afraid that the queue would NEVER pop again if it did.

 

3. The arena format makes using vote kick not unlike simply conceding the match. Maybe you'll get a replacement, more likely than not you're just playing one player short. 3 vs 4 is a lot worse play experience than 7 vs 8.

 

The end result is that not only does the standard human social consequence of being a jerk (being avoided or shunned) become impossible, but the self interest of everyone involved in their own rankings shields the worst people from already implemented solutions for bad behavior.

They are never in a million years going to remove SR. There are many, many people, myself included, that would up and leave right then and there. A better suggestion would be to address why ranked is being toxic to begin with, and the short answer is that ELO isn't working.

Now technically speaking ELO does "work" - as in matching players with roughly the same rating against each other - but the discrepancy in rating levels creates extremely chaotic and lopsided matches. One side might get 1400, 1200, 1000 and 800 and the other side gets 1800, 600, 700, 1300. In theory both sides has the same average rating (1100), but the level 1800 on the latter team has to carry 3 players.

When the 600 level then gets gloaballed within the first 10 seconds the match is essential over and obviously the 1800 player gets annoyed e.g. toxicity. That is why ELO is broken in this game. In a perfect world all 8 players would have roughly the same rating, and the match would be a lot closer. Yes people would still rage, but everyone would be on equal footing.

And this can not be fixed in swtor. We would need cross server queues and probably 10 times the current ranked population. The only solution I can see would be to change ranked into a point based system, and I have posted about this several times before, so I shall spare you my ramblings now.

TL;DR: A point based system in ranked would make people rage a bit less, as they don't lose rating in the same manner as with ELO.

They are never in a million years going to remove SR. There are many, many people, myself included, that would up and leave right then and there. A better suggestion would be to address why ranked is being toxic to begin with, and the short answer is that ELO isn't working.

 

Now technically speaking ELO does "work" - as in matching players with roughly the same rating against each other - but the discrepancy in rating levels creates extremely chaotic and lopsided matches. One side might get 1400, 1200, 1000 and 800 and the other side gets 1800, 600, 700, 1300. In theory both sides has the same average rating (1100), but the level 1800 on the latter team has to carry 3 players.

 

When the 600 level then gets gloaballed within the first 10 seconds the match is essential over and obviously the 1800 player gets annoyed e.g. toxicity. That is why ELO is broken in this game. In a perfect world all 8 players would have roughly the same rating, and the match would be a lot closer. Yes people would still rage, but everyone would be on equal footing.

 

And this can not be fixed in swtor. We would need cross server queues and probably 10 times the current ranked population. The only solution I can see would be to change ranked into a point based system, and I have posted about this several times before, so I shall spare you my ramblings now.

 

TL;DR: A point based system in ranked would make people rage a bit less, as they don't lose rating in the same manner as with ELO.

there are less than 1% of the population of the game who play solo ranked. "many many" is a big *** exaggeration.

there are less than 1% of the population of the game who play solo ranked. "many many" is a big *** exaggeration.

Please show me where the devs says that less then 1% plays ranked.

They are never in a million years going to remove SR. There are many, many people, myself included, that would up and leave right then and there. A better suggestion would be to address why ranked is being toxic to begin with, and the short answer is that ELO isn't working.

 

Now technically speaking ELO does "work" - as in matching players with roughly the same rating against each other - but the discrepancy in rating levels creates extremely chaotic and lopsided matches. One side might get 1400, 1200, 1000 and 800 and the other side gets 1800, 600, 700, 1300. In theory both sides has the same average rating (1100), but the level 1800 on the latter team has to carry 3 players.

 

When the 600 level then gets gloaballed within the first 10 seconds the match is essential over and obviously the 1800 player gets annoyed e.g. toxicity. That is why ELO is broken in this game. In a perfect world all 8 players would have roughly the same rating, and the match would be a lot closer. Yes people would still rage, but everyone would be on equal footing.

 

And this can not be fixed in swtor. We would need cross server queues and probably 10 times the current ranked population. The only solution I can see would be to change ranked into a point based system, and I have posted about this several times before, so I shall spare you my ramblings now.

 

TL;DR: A point based system in ranked would make people rage a bit less, as they don't lose rating in the same manner as with ELO.

It's not very likely they will make changes that drastically modify the ranking system of players or the matchmaking....

As you already saw, there is a quite a massive disagreement with this points system on the forums for example. It would surely cause some : heavy rage" ...

I mean you are mostly right with what you say but you shouldn't forget that sometimes the outcome of the game is decided before it starts by the make up of the two teams. And people rage at each other, when in reality , they were simply all victims of stupid matchmaking...

Please show me where the devs says that less then 1% plays ranked.

I did the math. If you play solo ranked you end up on a chart eventually.