I am thinking of shelving my Sage in favor of a Shadow, as I also have a Sorcerer, and stealth is fun!

 

Problem: I want to use Zenith, who works very well with my (healing) Sage. But from what I gather, DPS Shadows do best with Tharan or possibly a tank. Would using Zenith as my go-to Companion be asking for a painful, more difficult leveling experience? I'd expect to have to use Tharan on difficult class story boss fights, but I don't want to have to pull him out for every other quest boss or elite I run into.

 

The only other dual DPS I've run is my Guardian+ Kira, but only through Nar Shaddaa. It was a breeze, but I suspect Shadows are a fair bit squishier, and that it may be harder at high levels. Not to mention that Kira is melee while Zenith is ranged.

 

Your experiences and opinions would be very appreciated. Thanks for reading!

Edited May 23, 2014 by Gwena

No experience, but opinion: I never used Zenith at all. Several reasons: his attitude was not the one I chose for my Shadow, so conversations would lead to drop in affection. Also a ranged DPS with a melee DPS can work, but is a bit tricky on groups, at least for me, so I preferred a healer companion. If you specc a tank it might be different, still a healer might be a better choice depending on opposition.

 

But in general is pretty much depends on how you level. With my "later" characters I hardly required a companion, because leveling for me is done through flashpoints and I usually walk through the class missions heavily overgeared.

I ran my Balance Shadow through to the end of the story with Zenith since I got him because I wanted to try something new other than the dps/tank+healer combo.

 

Honestly, it was fun. It was pretty easy but I found that I would have to really upgrade my mods more consistently (every 3 levels was my pace) if I wanted to fight say 2 silvers and a gold and stay away from near death. Some times you have to resort to kiting to let him pick up aggro and get some hits in but its progress non the less.

 

Also his gear was top of the line as well (multiple crafters at hand) so it was a breeze, but it took more mangement. Give it a try and see how well you fare against an elite at your level with him, it definitely was fun.

For me, my companions are there for the help they bring. Story elements aside, I greatly favor the old and tested tank/dps + healer companions. Only few times below level 55 havent I ever run with a non-healer (pre getting Treek), and if you are okay with having to stop every or every other pull to heal a bit, a great DPS companion can add a lot of damage and utility to fights.

 

Like you, I ran my Guardian (as Vigilance DPS 1-55) with Kira until after Balmorra, when Doc (JK's healer) became my primary companion. Sentinel was the same way 1-33, but I stopped playing him, and when I came back to him, I had Treek and used her the rest of the way. My troopers still use Elara (Trooper's Healer), as I can say with great proof, she is a better healer then Treek. My Sage used Treek (I never have used Tank companions if I didnt have too; funny though she now uses Issero with my Vanguard's legacy tanking gear at 55 as her primary) her full run (can't stand Theran, he's too darn creepy). My Sniper used Treek, with some use of Ensign Temple (Agent's Ranged DPS).

 

Now after I hit 55 is when I explore a my companions. I use Kira and Nadia quite a bit now, my Troopers have had fun using Jorgean, and my Agent uses Temple a lot now.

 

It gets easier to use non-healer after you have decent gear at 55, or if you chose to run one as your primary leveling up, keep it as geared as possible, even to the point of letting it have better gear then you. In the end is all your personal choice, and in my experience, depends on the pace at which you want to play.

Tank companions cannot hold aggro from a player's dps character.

 

DPS: Use a healer comp to keep you alive.

Healer: Use a dps comp and keep them alive.

Tank: Use a melee dps comp and obliterate everything.

 

So, if you're a dps shadow, your best bet is Tahran. Which is great because you get him early. As a sage healer, gear up your Nadia, bubble her and yourself then proceed to Forcequake everything while she kills them target by target. Shadow tank? Have Nadia wear your dps set and steamroll everything.

I had a lot fun leveling my mara with Vette, though difficult at times and I did maintain blue Armor, mods and enhancements for my character and comp every 4-6 levels which got fairly expensive even having a cybertech to make the Armor with while I used comms for the mods and enhancements. But again a lot of fun and challengingthe problem have with a shadow is getting behind the target, though easier than scoundrel still a pain therefore I used the tanks and made shadow a lot more enjoyable

Thanks so much for the replies, everyone! It is very helpful to hear others' experiences and opinions.

 

I agree that playing as a DPS with a healing Companion is very convenient, but I really dislike using Tharan, and Treek is even worse (they are both earsores to me).

 

It sounds like using Zenith is doable, but would require me to stay on my toes and upgrade gear slightly more frequently than I normally would. I decided to try and test the general playstyle (mDPS + rDPS), so I dusted off my Scoundrel and ran with Risha for a bit. It did work . . . but it seems rather "messy" and a bit chaotic. I'm not sure I would enjoy 20 levels+ of that.

 

So, I think I'll keep playing my Sage and roll an Assassin instead of a Shadow. I have almost the exact same problem with the Sorcerer Companions, but at least if Andronikos doesn't work out, I like Xalek a lot more than either of the Consular tanks, and it sounds like an Assassin would also do well with a tank.

Tank companions cannot hold aggro from a player's dps character.

 

DPS: Use a healer comp to keep you alive.

Healer: Use a dps comp and keep them alive.

Tank: Use a melee dps comp and obliterate everything.

 

So, if you're a dps shadow, your best bet is Tahran. Which is great because you get him early. As a sage healer, gear up your Nadia, bubble her and yourself then proceed to Forcequake everything while she kills them target by target. Shadow tank? Have Nadia wear your dps set and steamroll everything.

 

Dont know what crack your smoking. Kalyo with my Operative is a kickass team, she always has aggro, and i dish out the DoT's with Lethality.

I would sooner pick Nadia. She absolutely destroys. And she uses the exact same gear as you do.

 

Don't need any heals when the mobs die before they can even touch you.

Nothing wrong with going DPS + DPS, but you will have to acknowledge the fact that this combination will not beat every encounter, whereas healer companions will generally push you through where you would otherwise fail.

 

For all but the hairiest scenarios, you will be fine running with Zenith if that's what you want to do. Make sure you keep his gear up to date and yours as well though, as obviously running DPS + DPS relies on killing things quickly. The only real time you might "need" a different (healer) combo is if you're going to try and solo something you would not normally be able to. But for everyday use, seriously, use Zenith if you want to. It will not hold you back.

 

On my sentinel I run DPS + DPS. Kira and I kill stuff very quickly. Beats just about everything except champion-boss types or hairy heroic-intended quests, where I bust out the healer. But otherwise I have no problem at all using Kira and I enjoy doing so. Sometimes we kill stuff so fast together I come away from an encounter thinking, damn it, I wanted to get out of that with more focus or centering (aka sentinel fuel that builds with more offense) than I actually came away with...

Edited May 28, 2014 by E-Zekiel

Nothing wrong with going DPS + DPS, but you will have to acknowledge the fact that this combination will not beat every encounter, whereas healer companions will generally push you through where you would otherwise fail.

 

What? I played with nothing but Nadia from the moment I got her and everything was a breeze...

I am going to be doing the same. I think it should be great, actually (anything Zenith is great, and I want to see a staff user on the Pub side & I am already trying Assassin tank). But I will respec to a tank if we can't make it as DPS+DPS. Sharing damage should work, I think, while doing lots of damage. Playing with his stance might be a good idea as well. The boy draws agro like a magnet, though, but I imagine the Shadow might beat him in that department. I would prefer drawing agro, since I can use medpacks and Zen can't. I am wondering if BioChem can be of use on such a set-up, even if Consular is not know for it for reusable medpacks/extra stims? Or stealth? Edited May 28, 2014 by DomiSotto

True, my second Knight and Kira are positively wrecking things, so perhaps it wouldn't be that bad. I'm sure a DPS Shadow + Nadia would posses a similar level of awesomeness, and would be much more convenient . . . but I want to use the Companion I like the best, which is Zenith (oh, what I wouldn't give for a role kit so I could spec him as anything but rDPS!).

 

Maybe I'll wait a bit and see how that works. I already made two Sages, so if I make another Consular it will definitely be a Shadow!

 

I would prefer drawing agro, since I can use medpacks and Zen can't. I am wondering if BioChem can be of use on such a set-up, even if Consular is not know for it for reusable medpacks/extra stims? Or stealth?

 

Biochem could definitely be useful for a Shadow! The medpacks you make that restore health to both you and your Companion are wonderful. It can make the difference between a close fight and death, particularly when you've pulled more than you meant to or are running without any heals.

 

Spec'ing to tank isn't a bad idea, though. I'll call that my "Plan C", or thereabouts. xD

Edited May 29, 2014 by Gwena

What? I played with nothing but Nadia from the moment I got her and everything was a breeze...

 

Same.

 

But when I first returned to the game, for example, and started doing Oricon dailies, I could not solo the tentacle beast and the subteroth. Both are champions.

 

Likewise, I cannot solo the heroic 2+ bosses with Nadia.

 

That was the point I was making. For the most part, I use Nadia for EVERYTHING. But sometimes I use Tharan when this is not feasible.

Same.

 

But when I first returned to the game, for example, and started doing Oricon dailies, I could not solo the tentacle beast and the subteroth. Both are champions.

 

Likewise, I cannot solo the heroic 2+ bosses with Nadia.

 

That was the point I was making. For the most part, I use Nadia for EVERYTHING. But sometimes I use Tharan when this is not feasible.

 

I've been able to do all of that just fine :/

I think the tentacle beast is even easier with Nadia than Tharan, since she allows to kill the beast faster than it start channeling again, where Tharan may lengthen the fight uselessly and make the extra channelings annoying.

 

Back on the Zenith matter, I remember a quest on Corellia where I had to shelve Tharan because DPS was vital... A quest where there are two big hitting elite droids at once, but they have an activation time, so killing the first one on time was actually the key for survival. But at that time I was tank, so with Tharan the overall DPS was really low, and there weren't the Presence bonuses yet.

It is a good idea, I use mainly Zenith on my both sage and shadow too, Zenith's dps is fierce! Bought him some verpine level gear, replaced some mods & enhancements in favor of more power-surge, added some crit, some accuracy, got rid of alacrity...now he's just lethal when it comes to dailies and story mode fp's

 

On a side note, it is a shame actually that there are these generally underestimated companions...Zenith, Andronikos, Gault, Rusk among dps, Iresso, Pierce, Skadge, Broonmark, Tanno Vik among tanks...one of the reasons I decided to try them was because I didn't see a lot of ppl at level 50 or 55 with these companions at all so one would think these companions are actually bad that's why so few ever summon them at all, it's almost like a cliche that sith warriors normally run around with Jaessa's (summoning Malavai when they have to but) or troopers with Elara's or consulars with Nadia's or inquisitors with Ashara's. Well, most likely you'll see these chick companions in the most revealing outfits and this is, of course, the real reason most choose them, gear them and recommend them

The point is, if you like a specific companion, give her / her some decent gear and you'll be satisfied with results. They're all very good dps and they're all very good at tanking when properly geared

I've been able to do all of that just fine :/

 

Since gearing up I've gotten to the point now where I can kill both the subteroth and the tentacle beast with a DPS companion, and could probably beat them without a companion at all, but I'm in all 162-168 gear, mostly augmented now, too. When I first started fighting them I was in 136-140 (as I said, I was a returning player), and using Nadia was very much not a valid approach, because no amount of DPS I could put out would kill it before it killed me.

 

But I'm going to have to say I very much doubt you are killing the heroic bosses with a DPS companion if you are not significantly geared (IE, not still running around in your 156 gear). If you are significantly geared and have not acknowledged this, you're being kind of disingenuous because that's an important factor. If you are significantly geared, then sure. But not by anybody running around in baseline gear will really be doing this.

Edited May 31, 2014 by E-Zekiel

Since gearing up I've gotten to the point now where I can kill both the subteroth and the tentacle beast with a DPS companion, and could probably beat them without a companion at all, but I'm in all 162-168 gear, mostly augmented now, too. When I first started fighting them I was in 136-140 (as I said, I was a returning player), and using Nadia was very much not a valid approach, because no amount of DPS I could put out would kill it before it killed me.

 

But I'm going to have to say I very much doubt you are killing the heroic bosses with a DPS companion if you are not significantly geared (IE, not still running around in your 156 gear). If you are significantly geared and have not acknowledged this, you're being kind of disingenuous because that's an important factor. If you are significantly geared, then sure. But not by anybody running around in baseline gear will really be doing this.

 

Ah yes, my Torian is almost in full 180-rating gear, so now he kills all regular elites (and I just watch him annihilate the subteroth before it even gets to the point when it starts to grow bigger ) and he does most of the killing in heroics 2, I just kinda help him lol

Fair enough then. Yeah I don't have 180s yet but have seen people doing that and am looking forward to it myself. Will be much quicker

Since gearing up I've gotten to the point now where I can kill both the subteroth and the tentacle beast with a DPS companion, and could probably beat them without a companion at all, but I'm in all 162-168 gear, mostly augmented now, too. When I first started fighting them I was in 136-140 (as I said, I was a returning player), and using Nadia was very much not a valid approach, because no amount of DPS I could put out would kill it before it killed me.

 

But I'm going to have to say I very much doubt you are killing the heroic bosses with a DPS companion if you are not significantly geared (IE, not still running around in your 156 gear). If you are significantly geared and have not acknowledged this, you're being kind of disingenuous because that's an important factor. If you are significantly geared, then sure. But not by anybody running around in baseline gear will really be doing this.

 

Na, I don't ever gear myself up when levelling. I go with what I get. And it works just fine for me.

 

Not EVERY H2 is doable, but by far the most of them are.

Then again, I can only really be bothered if i think its worth the time required to complete it.

On a side note, it is a shame actually that there are these generally underestimated companions... [...] Rusk among dps, Iresso, Pierce [...] among tanks...

 

There are problems with those I left in the quote, actually.

 

Rusk, has his channeled ability which should be a good part of his DPS misclassified as Force, and as a result, the ability is not improved by his gear and is extremely weak.

 

Iresso and Pierce have a common problem : their charge has 20m range only. It doesn't seem to be a big deal at first sight, but the problem comes to how the AI cycles abilities.

They attempt all their "skills" in order, and try to use base attack if all failed. They close range only as a last resort, if none of the action are in range.

You can see where it can be wonky : the 20-30m range. At this range, they'll just throw the taunt, the casted ability, and the instant flame burst. After this they'll never try to charge or use their AoE because they can auto attack, and it's higher on their priority list.

As a result they never get close on their own, and when it happens, they're fail tanks as the improved aggro is on the AoE they don't use, they also do suboptimal DPS and so even lower aggro, and since they don't charge, there are also situations where their AoE taunts pull other packs of NPC, which they wouldn't have pulled if they had been into the frey.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Altheran

There are problems with those I left in the quote, actually.

 

Rusk, has his channeled ability which should be a good part of his DPS misclassified as Force, and as a result, the ability is not improved by his gear and is extremely weak.

 

Iresso and Pierce have a common problem : their charge has 20m range only. It doesn't seem to be a big deal at first sight, but the problem comes to how the AI cycles abilities.

They attempt all their "skills" in order, and try to use base attack if all failed. They close range only as a last resort, if none of the action are in range.

You can see where it can be wonky : the 20-30m range. At this range, they'll just throw the taunt, the casted ability, and the instant flame burst. After this they'll never try to charge or use their AoE because they can auto attack, and it's higher on their priority list.

As a result they never get close on their own, and when it happens, they're fail tanks as the improved aggro is on the AoE they don't use, they also do suboptimal DPS and so even lower aggro, and since they don't charge, there are also situations where their AoE taunts pull other packs of NPC, which they wouldn't have pulled if they had been into the frey.

 

Can't say anything about Rusk, never use him (I always run with Scourge on my sentinel and guardian but that's a matter of personal sympathy )

Some valid points regarding Iresso and Pierce tanking style, indeed, if the distance between them and target is more than 20 meters they do not charge but start auto-attacking. However, they do hold agro from a distance. Kinda make sense, since, after all, they're ranged tanks.

So, for example, as a mara or jugg you kill packs or Elites at melee range while mobs have Pierce in target and don't pay attention to you killing them until you eventually steal agro...works totally fine! I agree that Xalek or Khem benefit some from being melee tanks but Pierce or Iresso or Corso tanking is absolutely viable, they hold mobs attention on them long enough for me to do the killing without losing any hp But that's presuming they're geared decently

Actually where everyone runs around with naked Jaessa's / Ashara's / Nadia's and when it comes to needing a tank it's always either Xalek or Khem, I kinda feel like giving Pierce or Iresso a chance even more, and they never made me regret it

Edited May 31, 2014 by Preston_Violent

Some valid points regarding Iresso and Pierce tanking style, indeed, if the distance between them and target is more than 20 meters they do not charge but start auto-attacking. However, they do hold agro from a distance. Kinda make sense, since, after all, they're ranged tanks.

It becomes more apparent when there are multiple NPCs, because even if he holds aggro from his target, the other NPC will only be interested by "who did the most damage on their mate" regardless of aggro modifiers, unless someone built aggro directly towards them... And so, unless that by chance they're in the AoE taunt, the target of the other NPC will likely be you.

 

By chance, it's usually non problematic since NPCs are hardly threatening when companions are allowed, and as a Shadow chances that Iresso stands too far are low.

But still, it's annoying when it happens.

But I'm going to have to say I very much doubt you are killing the heroic bosses with a DPS companion if you are not significantly geared (IE, not still running around in your 156 gear). If you are significantly geared and have not acknowledged this, you're being kind of disingenuous because that's an important factor. If you are significantly geared, then sure. But not by anybody running around in baseline gear will really be doing this.

 

I'm insignificantly geared. You can definitely do this in 156 with Nadia and a tank. But to do

so, you have to get in all the right interrupts, stuns, and where appropriate move away from strong

attacks. Nadia, needs all the best shadow at level DPS gear you can give her (you can swap

with her when you want to instance as DPS instead of tank). Cooldowns need to be available,

make sure Nadia's high dps attacks are not on cooldown from previous trash.

 

I'm not sure it would be possible as say, a balance shadow with Nadia, since I haven't actually

tried that, yet! But I do have a 49 balance shadow, that leveled through pvp. Maybe I'll try Nadia

for dailies if I can give up pvp at 49.