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Suggestions for tuning down (some) veteran FPs


Rolodome

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To start off, I realize some people may disagree fundamentally that any veteran flashpoints should be tuned down. You are welcome to voice that, but I wanted to mention some ways that I think could lessen the "pug breaker" elements of some veteran flashpoints, if Bioware were to consider tuning them down. "Pug breaker" loosely means any element that is frustrating or difficult in a way that's likely to result in people quitting group. (And remember, I'm talking about veteran, NOT master.)

 

I will go down the list with what I recall and suggestions on them. I may edit the post to add stuff later if I think of more.

 

You're welcome to disagree on specifics or add your own suggestions for tuning down if you believe in it as an idea. Also note that these are meant to be rough proposals. I'm not necessarily married to particular suggestions.

 

Athiss: Primary areas of concern here are Beast of Vodal Kressh blocking kolto stations at the wrong time, making it difficult for those who need to heal to do so, and the mobs near the end being annoying to deal with if you don't have a stealther with sap to bypass them.

 

Athiss suggestions: Add a way to trigger a kolto station without directly clicking it. Some sort of ground target or proximity trigger. Also, similar to the explosives that can bypass one door without having archeology, perhaps an item that can sap one of the adds near the end if you don't have stealth?

 

Cademimu: The only significant problem I can think of here is in relation to the killer droids, most of which get knocked off the edge if people are clever about it and have knockbacks.

 

Cademimu suggestions: In the event of nobody really having knockbacks, perhaps consider placing some kind of barrels with a knockback attached that if triggered in the right way at the right time will knock the droid off the ledge.

 

Blood Hunt: The primary issues here seem to be with the last two bosses and a few mechanics.

 

Blood Hunt suggestions: Change Valk's sweeping gunfire to a single-target attack of about the same damage and perhaps remove the stun (I think there is a stun?) from Jos's slice thingy. Worst of issues with them seem to be when they're both down and some people derp right into sweeping gunfire or face it right at the group. Final boss, perhaps something to do with the orange circles when the lava pits are out (maybe just remove that attack). Those seem to be killer when melee are involved and people aren't careful.

 

Depths of Manaan: The primary hangup here seems to be Ortuno.

 

Depths of Manaan suggestions: Remove the adds from Ortuno entirely. It will still require some tactical awareness, but ime, the adds tend to be where a group that is barely surviving can quickly turn into people dying. I haven't seen much in the way of issues with Stivastin, but I'd consider lowering the amount of time it takes for the fire circle to initially spawn and then how long in-between, and maybe make the duration of the fire last a bit longer too. Basically, a soft nerf through making it take less time to whittle him down with the fire, provided you get him into it.

 

Tython: Main issues I see are stealth/add-obsessed boss taking a long time to kill and last boss wiping people out, leaving others to finish.

 

Tython suggestions: Increase the amount of health (I think it's health-based? or is it time-based?) in-between the boss going stealth and spawning more adds. Same could be done with the first boss too, actually. The idea here is to make it less tedious. Last boss, I think just nerfing the chain lightning type move would make a world of a difference. People could still die during the purple circles part, but they'd be less likely to go into it with low health.

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It isn't an issue of tuning down, and the veteran FPs are fine as they are. The problem is some people that have a prejudice against anyone that doesn't meet their idiotic "level requirement".

 

The answer is NOT to tune these downs. There is no challenge in them to begin with besides the ones that are bugged like Blood Hunt. To say any part of Athiss is overtuned, frankly, is laughable.

 

 

and.....?

 

You don't get to make that choice for every other player. The OP has every right to ask. For me there should always be 3 versions of every flashpoint, story (soloable) Vet( for both solo player who happen to be above average and group) and MM (for group only). As with everything BW has to make that decision, not you, me or the OP. That does not take away he's right to ask.

Edited by KoriVash
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and.....?

 

You don't get to make that choice for ever other player. The OP has every right to ask. For me there should always be 3 versions of every flashpoint, story (soloable) Vet and MM. As with everything BW has to make that decision, not you, me or the OP. That does not take away he's right to ask.

 

Story is Vet., and guess what, I have every right to disagree with him as well as state that HE doesn't speak for everyone either.

Edited by lightSaberAddiCt
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Story is Vet., and guess what, I have every right to disagree with him as well as state that HE doesn't speak for everyone either.

 

You're not disagreeing though are you, you are telling him NO, not the same thing. While belittling he's post as laughable.

"

The answer is NOT to tune these downs. There is no challenge in them to begin with besides the ones that are bugged like Blood Hunt. To say any part of Athiss is overtuned, frankly, is laughable."

Edited by KoriVash
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Athiss: Making the kolto stations 'walk through' like in the newer FPs for larger bosses is actually a good idea. Czerka desert boss is another culprit. If he's hugging you close it's difficult to hit the kolto during sand storm and on a lvl 24 that does hurt. :D

 

Cademimu: While I don't think the killer droids are a huge problem it's kinda funny how they're champion level in Vet and just gold in MM. Pretty sure it's meant to be the other way around and would make it easier for some in Vet without the need for knockback (and killing the leaping sentinel in your group in the process :p).

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Veteran flash points are “ALL” soloable. If you have a trinity group of 4 and you keep wiping, it’s a skill and tactics problem. It may even be a gear problem if you don’t have your secondary stats correct.

 

They definitely don’t need to be de-tuned at all because that would ruin them for a vast amount of people. You don’t rob Peter to pay Paul. We already have people saying if you want things harder that we should dismiss companions, which isn’t really fair because Bioware already dumbed down the game too much.

 

If you want veteran to be easier, maybe ask for a third party option like a token boost you can pick up from a vendor that increases your damage or health. Or another idea might be an option to buy a combat droid to run with the group, the same as you have in SM.

 

Honestly, if you can’t clear it, then you should probably be playing story mode,

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The easiest solution is for the system not to put lvl 70s in groups with lower lvls, especially ones under 40. If that means queues are a bit longer, then so be it.

Only if that's optional. I don't mind little ones in my group and sometimes it's more fun than some 70s with no time. :t_cool:

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Veteran flash points are “ALL” soloable. If you have a trinity group of 4 and you keep wiping, it’s a skill and tactics problem. It may even be a gear problem if you don’t have your secondary stats correct.

 

They definitely don’t need to be de-tuned at all because that would ruin them for a vast amount of people. You don’t rob Peter to pay Paul. We already have people saying if you want things harder that we should dismiss companions, which isn’t really fair because Bioware already dumbed down the game too much.

 

If you want veteran to be easier, maybe ask for a third party option like a token boost you can pick up from a vendor that increases your damage or health. Or another idea might be an option to buy a combat droid to run with the group, the same as you have in SM.

 

Honestly, if you can’t clear it, then you should probably be playing story mode,

Who the hell are you even talking to? Some random person who hypothetically wants to steal your challenging content from you?

 

I'm talking about elements that break pugs. Veteran flashpoints don't require a trinity, much less high level characters. Why would that even be relevant to the discussion? What exactly are you even talking about here?

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I could give you Manaan and Blood hunt as they seem more difficult than the others. Honestly though, I have been here since (here it comes) launch and I have never wiped on Athiss or heard anyone say it is difficult. So I think some of your problems could be attributed to bad luck.

 

I would not mind if they would make the adds less strong in the Manaan boss or removed the knockback from Valk and Joss. About the others I think you are dead wrong. In the dozens of times Ive completed them I never had a serious problem. Except for maybe the knockback from the commando on Tython that pushes people into other mobs. Thats it.

 

As far as I know any difficult tactics were removed from Veteran a long time ago. It's OK to have to learn sómething to do a FP. That's the problem with the solo game nowadays, it is so close to godmode that it teaches you very little (like interrupts, staying out of a blast radius, using defensive cooldowns, etc.)

Edited by Gokkus
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I don't think there needs to be tuning of any of the Vet FP's, they're easy enough as they are. If anything, certain FP's should be tiered differently, similar to what Lost Island was after its release, so a level fifteen doesn't draw one of the tougher ones. Lack of abilities and bolster can only do so much. Edited by Pirana
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Who the hell are you even talking to? Some random person who hypothetically wants to steal your challenging content from you?

 

I'm talking about elements that break pugs. Veteran flashpoints don't require a trinity, much less high level characters. Why would that even be relevant to the discussion? What exactly are you even talking about here?

 

You accused someone else in this thread about making it personal, now you go off at me for expressing my view.

ALL veteran mode flash points are soloable. So I don’t think you asking to have them de-tuned is reasonable.

 

All of those Flash points you say have bugs etc need to have the bugs fixed, not nerf the flash point.

My wife and I did all of those ones you complained about tonight. We had no trouble doing them in lvl 230 gear with 2 comps. Yes the bugs suck, but we look at them as a feature and work out how to play around them.

 

There have been too many of these threads over the years of people asking to nerf content cause it’s too hard for them. The devs see this and then nerf ****, that is what I’m going on about. These threads are cancer to the quality and challenge to the game.

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It isn't an issue of tuning down, and the veteran FPs are fine as they are. The problem is some people that have a prejudice against anyone that doesn't meet their idiotic "level requirement".

 

The answer is NOT to tune these downs. There is no challenge in them to begin with besides the ones that are bugged like Blood Hunt. To say any part of Athiss is overtuned, frankly, is laughable.

 

This is your own personal opinion, I have done these many times with mixed level groups with no issues. This is just you trying to sidetrack the issue of lvl 70s that don't think they should have to be in a group with people that aren't above 30+. Most abilities are provided to classes now early on, they only get passives and maybe 1 or 2 active abilities later on. They are bolstered just like in SM OPs.

 

There ,edited and reposted just so we don't hurt any fee fees

Edited by lightSaberAddiCt
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You accused someone else in this thread about making it personal, now you go off at me for expressing my view.

ALL veteran mode flash points are soloable. So I don’t think you asking to have them de-tuned is reasonable.

 

All of those Flash points you say have bugs etc need to have the bugs fixed, not nerf the flash point.

My wife and I did all of those ones you complained about tonight. We had no trouble doing them in lvl 230 gear with 2 comps. Yes the bugs suck, but we look at them as a feature and work out how to play around them.

 

There have been too many of these threads over the years of people asking to nerf content cause it’s too hard for them. The devs see this and then nerf ****, that is what I’m going on about. These threads are cancer to the quality and challenge to the game.

 

Yeah and then reported the post. Hope that person doesn't mind that I reposted it with nothing in it that he can claim is insulting lol.

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Only if that's optional. I don't mind little ones in my group and sometimes it's more fun than some 70s with no time. :t_cool:

 

Why even do that, there are a lot of great players with 70s. I still say provide the persons name who drops (maybe at least twice or 3 times in like 10 seconds so that can not include someone that just had to drop for something they had to do) to the rest of the group so they can chose to ignore them so they other players can enjoy their game and not have to deal with people like that.

Edited by lightSaberAddiCt
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Many of the difficulties you mention here are simply a matter of experience. Also, Veteran FPs are already easy enough for experienced players - it's good that at least some have mechanics that require a bit of thought or class self-knowledge, etc.

 

Athiss

Changing the kolto stations to the "run-through" type found in later FPs would be a good idea. The "boss blocking the kolto" thing is not restricted to just Athiss, though.

 

Until they change them (if ever) - most classes have some sort of "dash", "roll forward", or etc, quick move skill. You just need to have the presence of mind to use the skill to run ahead/away from the boss so you can get a clear shot at the kolto

 

BTW - when you say "sap" do you mean "zap" or could you explain?

 

Cademimu

Those droids take a while to kill, but it really only means spending some time - they're not that hard. Most people are interested in doing an FP as fast as possible, so they knock them over the edge to speed things up.

 

Bloodhunt

This is mostly a case of "situational awareness". I noticed you didn't mention Valk's knockback - possibly because you are situationally aware that you should stay away from the edge. The rest is just experience and awareness.

 

Manaan

You just need to kill Ortuno's adds as quickly as possible. This means that any damage dealers should be taking out the adds, not attacking Ortuno (until the adds are dead).

As far as I'm aware, the main reason for dragging the last boss into the flames is to kill it's shield. After that, the fire may do some extra damage, but it's not critical to success.

 

Tython

Some parts can be a bit tedious, but not overly.

 

Overall

The only thing here I would agree with is the "run-through" koltos for Athiss. Dumbing down the rest would just make what little 'difficulty" there is, disappear and make them less fun in the long run.

If you really find some flashpoint to be to hard, boring, etc, you can simply opt it out of the list of available GF FPs. (Click on the spot near the bottom of the GF window where it says 22/22)

You won't get the daily (or is it weekly?) reward if you do that, but if you've already gotten it or don't want/need it, it does help.

Edited by JediQuaker
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You accused someone else in this thread about making it personal, now you go off at me for expressing my view.

ALL veteran mode flash points are soloable. So I don’t think you asking to have them de-tuned is reasonable.

 

All of those Flash points you say have bugs etc need to have the bugs fixed, not nerf the flash point.

My wife and I did all of those ones you complained about tonight. We had no trouble doing them in lvl 230 gear with 2 comps. Yes the bugs suck, but we look at them as a feature and work out how to play around them.

 

There have been too many of these threads over the years of people asking to nerf content cause it’s too hard for them. The devs see this and then nerf ****, that is what I’m going on about. These threads are cancer to the quality and challenge to the game.

 

Trixx, More then likely the OP started this thread after I started the thread about actions being taken against people that immediately drop the GF que if there is any lower levels in it (before the FP is even assigned), and that they should be either penalized, or their name given to the others in the group so we can chose to ignore them. Then another poster started the tale of 2 fps thread, and then the OP started this one. Just a little history on the whole fiasco.

Edited by lightSaberAddiCt
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I don't think the FPs need to be detuned, even for lowbies, but I totally agree the Kolto Stations need to be fixed as the boss hitbox consumes it and its impossible to activate. Walk thru is the obvious answer here, or prioritize the Kolto Station hitbox over boss hitbox, but you know it's Bioware, ain't gonna happen.
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I don't think the FPs need to be detuned, even for lowbies, but I totally agree the Kolto Stations need to be fixed as the boss hitbox consumes it and its impossible to activate. Walk thru is the obvious answer here, or prioritize the Kolto Station hitbox over boss hitbox, but you know it's Bioware, ain't gonna happen.

 

The kolto station fix is an excellent idea. A lot of times you try to click it and the boss or an enemy is behind you and you have to rotate the camera to click it, and by then, your dead. The run through koltos would work perfectly.

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Veteran flashpoints don't require a trinity, much less high level characters. Why would that even be relevant to the discussion? What exactly are you even talking about here?

 

As you said, they don't even require high level characters, therefor there is no justification for level 70s to refuse the team selection over and over and over again. Thanks for proving my point!

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Athiss: Making the kolto stations 'walk through' like in the newer FPs for larger bosses is actually a good idea. Czerka desert boss is another culprit. If he's hugging you close it's difficult to hit the kolto during sand storm and on a lvl 24 that does hurt. :D

 

Cademimu: While I don't think the killer droids are a huge problem it's kinda funny how they're champion level in Vet and just gold in MM. Pretty sure it's meant to be the other way around and would make it easier for some in Vet without the need for knockback (and killing the leaping sentinel in your group in the process :p).

Good point, Czerka desert boss is another one where kolto stations are an issue. And like with Athiss, I doubt it was intended that way.

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You accused someone else in this thread about making it personal, now you go off at me for expressing my view.

ALL veteran mode flash points are soloable. So I don’t think you asking to have them de-tuned is reasonable.

 

All of those Flash points you say have bugs etc need to have the bugs fixed, not nerf the flash point.

My wife and I did all of those ones you complained about tonight. We had no trouble doing them in lvl 230 gear with 2 comps. Yes the bugs suck, but we look at them as a feature and work out how to play around them.

 

There have been too many of these threads over the years of people asking to nerf content cause it’s too hard for them. The devs see this and then nerf ****, that is what I’m going on about. These threads are cancer to the quality and challenge to the game.

"Expressing your view." Come on. You went off on some off-topic rant about how if someone can't complete veteran, they should be playing story mode. You even used the verbiage "you," implying that I, the OP, need my hands held because I'm bringing up elements that break pugs.

 

And then you have the gall to call it "going off on you" when I ask you what you're going on about and who the hell you're talking to? Because seriously, what are you going on about? And who are you talking to? I figured, maybe you were just using a general you and you could correct the record on it, explaining that you weren't meaning to single anyone out. But instead you're going to play this like I'm the bad guy here and go so far as to call this thread cancer to the game. Some of the suggestions I made weren't even nerfs! They were literally just suggestions that would compensate for a pug group lacking particular utilities.

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