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Let's be honest the only thing that matters in PVP is the healers


Resiel

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So not only do you have a partner healer, you have a pocket tank peeler. And abilities with 20 seconds and 30 seconds come off CD after a couple of seconds because of course they were perfectly timed to coincide with you breaking your channel early....and ...who knows what the other team is doing, maybe buying popcorn and watching,...the story just gets better and better. ........

 

So, wait, you're penalizing someone for having useful friends and knowing how to strategy in PvP to win?

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Healing got buffed a 5% i think this patch in war-zones due to the trama debuff changes. Healers got new buffs to increase output as well. Healing is undeniably stronger than pre-2.0.

The real question is did DPS get enough boost to compensate? Right now I believe the scales are tipped towards healing. I haven't seen many DPS break 1mil and the ones I have are known exceptional players, but I see at least one healer break a mil virtually every warzone.

I see all the healers on the thread love it, but the question is do we want warzones where the first 30secs determine the outcome (Civil War, Novare), and where matches are generally just a 15-30min war of attrition where no team can push another off a node, but we all get super padded numbers.

 

Like I said before it feels like 1.2 and heals were nerfed then because it became impossible to flip nodes.

 

Of course when everyone is fully geared and bolster fixed it may shake out different, so I don't advise knee jerk reactions.

Edited by Domatron
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I would like to see more huttball like based pvp games myself. It's rather more fun having to work as a team than just having people have a zergfest with healers just healing nonstop and no one dying or getting anything done. :rak_04:
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Its truth, whether im on any dps it really matters not they're all the same i can spam snipe, grav round, smash, or maul like a braindead moron or have a optimized 'skilled' rotation and my team wins and loses the same but if Im on my healer or my team has good healers boom win about every time. Healing and having healers is the only thing that matters in PvP in this game. They're so overpowered it's ridiculous. The End.

 

A team of competent dps can be > team with 2 healers. Other than such rare exceptions, I agree.

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Lol, the OP thinks a team of 8 DPS should be able to beat a team with 2-3 healers. Healers are not "OP", and a unsupported healer goes down VERY fast if focused by multiple DPSers. They only become hard to kill if there is very good cross-healing between 2-3 healers, and/or they are being guarded by a tank. Yes, if you are up against a team with 3 healers and a tank, your team is going to have a very difficult time killing anyone. But that also means their team only has 4 DPSers, so they are going to have a hard time killing anyone as well. You NEED DPSers to win. Stacking too much of ANY role is going to put you at a disadvantage.

 

The OP has clearly never played as any of the three healing classes. Anyone who thinks healing is "OP" should try healing in pug games with no tanks and no other healers. Being the only healer on a team with 7 DPSers is probably the single most frustrating PVP experience possible. Assuming the other team understands the basic concept of focusing down a healer (fortunately for us healers some don't....), you end up spending the entire match running away/hiding and healing yourself until you die while the ENTIRE enemy team guns for you 100% of the time. Healers are important and they certainly can make the difference between a loss and a win, but they absolutely must be supported by other healers and/or tanks to prevail against good teams.

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Lol, the OP thinks a team of 8 DPS should be able to beat a team with 2-3 healers. Healers are not "OP", and a unsupported healer goes down VERY fast if focused by multiple DPSers. They only become hard to kill if there is very good cross-healing between 2-3 healers, and/or they are being guarded by a tank. Yes, if you are up against a team with 3 healers and a tank, your team is going to have a very difficult time killing anyone...

 

That was as far as I got. Healers go down fast with 2-3 dpsers on them and no support (not necessarily true but we'll ignore that for now)? Are you saying dpsers don't go down fast with 2-3 on them? An "unkillable" team with 4 dpsers will kill their opposition fast enough 1-2 at a time without dying themselves. Have you seen games where one side has everyone with 20+ kills and the other side has <5 each? I've seen many of those games very recently. Not in 1.7. Not since 1.2. But now? At least every other game is like that on POT5, level 55, regs. Not fun at all if you're on the dying side. And it's not a matter of skill (unless you are a healer), just luck of the draw.

Edited by WaywardOne
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Multiple healer teams on POT5 are dominating tonight. As soon as 2 or 3 lock down a door or node, its game over. Healer teams are exponentially better than single and no healer teams.

 

This needs fixed. Healers are a force multiplier and since they can assist on the DPS, its win/win situation for any team sporting 3 to 4 healers. It's not fun for pugs especially.

 

They have implemented PvP class queue balancing in other games. We need it here as well.

Edited by Arkerus
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Multiple healer teams on POT5 are dominating tonight. As soon as 2 or 3 lock down a door or node, its game over. Healer teams are exponentially better than single and no healer teams.

 

This needs fixed. Healers a a force multiplier and since they can assist on the DPS, its win/win situation for any team sporting 3 to 4 healers. It's not fun for pugs especially.

 

They have implemented PvP class queue balancing in other games. We need it here as well.

 

Well although that sucks for your server, there are other servers with the exact opposite issue. And I bet those were CMs.

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Focus the healers .. that pretty much sums that one up .. Too bad its only the good players that know this ..

 

I can't stand when people say this. Any competent team kills people focusing their healers. It's never as simple as focus the healers. That's something people say when they know they have a severe advantage and don't want to admit it.

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That was as far as I got. Healers go down fast with 2-3 dpsers on them and no support (not necessarily true but we'll ignore that for now)? Are you saying dpsers don't go down fast with 2-3 on them? An "unkillable" team with 4 dpsers will kill their opposition fast enough 1-2 at a time without dying themselves. Have you seen games where one side has everyone with 20+ kills and the other side has <5 each? I've seen many of those games very recently. Not in 1.7. Not since 1.2. But now? At least every other game is like that on POT5, level 55, regs. Not fun at all if you're on the dying side. And it's not a matter of skill (unless you are a healer), just luck of the draw.

 

I also play on POT5, and I've been on teams with 3 healers and a tank (I was one of the healers). Yes, those games were fun because hardly anyone on our side died, and all of us healers pulled pretty big numbers. But we were attacking on voidstar, and we lost. Why did we lose? Because we did not have enough DPSers to kill their team and plant the bomb on the door. We might have been "invincible", and the match was a lot of fun, but we lost because we did not have enough DPSers, plain and simple.

 

By the OP's logic, the ultimate unbeatable team would be 8 healers or maybe 4 healers and 4 tanks (but no DPSers). Good luck taking a node from a team with a good DPS/tank/heal composition with that setup.

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I also play on POT5, and I've been on teams with 3 healers and a tank (I was one of the healers). Yes, those games were fun because hardly anyone on our side died, and all of us healers pulled pretty big numbers. But we were attacking on voidstar, and we lost. Why did we lose? Because we did not have enough DPSers to kill their team and plant the bomb on the door. We might have been "invincible", and the match was a lot of fun, but we lost because we did not have enough DPSers, plain and simple.

 

By the OP's logic, the ultimate unbeatable team would be 8 healers or maybe 4 healers and 4 tanks (but no DPSers). Good luck taking a node from a team with a good DPS/tank/heal composition with that setup.

 

I'd love to see a screen shot of that game... but flukes happen. I was in a game a few nights ago where there were 6 healers on the other team and 1 for half of mine and we pulled off a win. The game still sucked if you were on the "winning" side - I certainly didn't feel like we were the winners - all of us died lots and practically none of them did. And for every one of those games I can show you at least 5 that didn't go that way when I was on a team with 1 or 0 healers.

 

Normally it's much harder to take an objective away from a team with healers than it is one with dps guards.

Edited by WaywardOne
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I also play on POT5, and I've been on teams with 3 healers and a tank (I was one of the healers). Yes, those games were fun because hardly anyone on our side died, and all of us healers pulled pretty big numbers. But we were attacking on voidstar, and we lost. Why did we lose? Because we did not have enough DPSers to kill their team and plant the bomb on the door. We might have been "invincible", and the match was a lot of fun, but we lost because we did not have enough DPSers, plain and simple.

 

By the OP's logic, the ultimate unbeatable team would be 8 healers or maybe 4 healers and 4 tanks (but no DPSers). Good luck taking a node from a team with a good DPS/tank/heal composition with that setup.

 

It's a fine line, but 3 healers is not nearly enough to erode your DPS to the point of not winning. I would say in that case you would have defended fine. My point still remains, as you said, 3 healers and no one dies. That's not PvP.

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I can't stand when people say this. Any competent team kills people focusing their healers.

 

Well at that point you have a Tank peel for that DPS and have your healer keep you up...

 

...which means that the other team will need to focus your healers...

 

...meaning you need to focus their Dps...

 

Oh wait, that is how PVP works! Almost like you have to shift targets and adapt and if you are outmatched you are going to lose.

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If you go through these forums you'll see a common theme. Posts about TTK being to quick. How OP everyone else is. Healers are too powerful, I can't solo them like I did in my sleep pre 2.0.

 

So you can literally read from one extreme to another on these forums and do you know why? Because most DPS in this game are bad players. Let me say this clearly so people don't get offended. Pre 2.0 a team of 8 DPS could easily win. Why? Because damage was out of control. You would see few healers if any in pugs, because they could barely function without a guard. So now all those same players just smashing keys and not using CC/interrupts properly can't kill anyone due to healers.

 

The game needs to be balanced around group play. Not soloing each other. In group play a healer will go down hard and fast to focus fire and CC. Right now Skill > Derp and I like it that way.

 

P.S. The number of derp smashers and PT's crying is pretty hilarious. No more instantly killing players with their overly "complicated" rotations.

 

You're partly wrong, I play a commando healer and I did just fine before and did not really need a guard as I had my own tricks to keep myself alive. I won more with my commando healer than I did with my mdps sentinel who had better gear as it was my first and main character. Part of the trick is not using the giveaway visible healer revealers too much since it will get you killed instantly, which may be that opposing team just don't know how to spot the healers unless they're marked up or tell them where they are. But that is another story about skill and not class.

 

As for the name of this thread, in 2.0 it is balance that matters but too many healers won't get the job done either and if you have more than 2 healers they must take turns playing hybrid a bit to give that extra killpower every now and then. Are healers overpowered in 2.0? I think yes, sage healer + invulnerable is just a laugh. Operative free Kolto Probe spam. (I played with two other operatives the other day and we had a blast spamming probes around the team. health was at peak almost nonstop and when it went down it was a very temporary drop. It's not even difficult and takes no brain to pull off either. Just mark the portrait and click, click-mark next and click, click... Since your energy regenerates as fast as you spend it you never run out of energy and as long as there are two of you in the same spot it doesn't matter if the opponent decides to concentrate fire on one of you, because between the two of you you will still survive and meanwhile the dps kills off theirs(unless they have an equal composition in which case we have the stand off scenario. Do I enjoy playing healer in 2.0, of course I do, I did before too and typically did very well before 2.0. Do I think healers in 2.0 are overpowered in order to make them more viable for less skilled players to play? You bet they are! Way overpowered just as several other classes became to cater to the less skilled players.

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I can't stand when people say this. Any competent team kills people focusing their healers. It's never as simple as focus the healers. That's something people say when they know they have a severe advantage and don't want to admit it.

 

If every DPS is after the healer then there's no way this strategy would work as that'd imply you normally could've simply killed all of the enemy DPS and if you can do that you obviously weren't losing anyway. And what's the disadvantage for every DPS to attack a healer? Would it better if they attacked another DPS? The Tank? Sure some of the time it'd be better, but healers are generally more vulnerable anyway so why wouldn't you try to kill the guy that's relatively easy to kill?

 

Focusing healer obviously is dependent your class. If you're a Sniper trying to chase down an Op most of the time you'd just be wasting your time, but you should still throw an explosive probe on him the time you do see him within your LoS. It's true some classes are far better at pursuing than others but a lot of time it's like this healer has turned around a corner and you see DPS immediately turn around and attack someone else. Yes chasing him is pretty dangerous but it's even more dangerous to let him heal himself back up to 100% from around the corner. By the way, what does it exactly mean 'kill the DPS on the healer?' If the healer is being guarded, that implies another DPS is also doing the work (most tanks don't do enough damage to quickly kill the healer's pursuer), so that means there are at least 3 guys you're up against: the healer, the tank guarding the healer, and the DPS killing you. So of course you need some backup too because nobody is so awesome to win 1on3 like that.

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As for the name of this thread, in 2.0 it is balance that matters but too many healers won't get the job done either and if you have more than 2 healers they must take turns playing hybrid a bit to give that extra killpower every now and then. Are healers overpowered in 2.0? I think yes, sage healer + invulnerable is just a laugh. Operative free Kolto Probe spam. (I played with two other operatives the other day and we had a blast spamming probes around the team. health was at peak almost nonstop and when it went down it was a very temporary drop. It's not even difficult and takes no brain to pull off either. Just mark the portrait and click, click-mark next and click, click... Since your energy regenerates as fast as you spend it you never run out of energy and as long as there are two of you in the same spot it doesn't matter if the opponent decides to concentrate fire on one of you, because between the two of you you will still survive and meanwhile the dps kills off theirs(unless they have an equal composition in which case we have the stand off scenario. Do I enjoy playing healer in 2.0, of course I do, I did before too and typically did very well before 2.0. Do I think healers in 2.0 are overpowered in order to make them more viable for less skilled players to play? You bet they are! Way overpowered just as several other classes became to cater to the less skilled players.

 

The 2.0 changes basically makes it impossible for a team with no healers to beat a team with any decent healer. Now people saying that's the way things are supposed to be, that wasn't how it was before 2.0. A team of 8 DPS used to be able to focus fire on a healer relatively easily, but with all the new tricks this is no longer possible. And unless there's going to be like a WoW enforcement on WZ must have at least a healer, this is something that is at least worth looking into.

 

In the case where both teams have healer you often end up with a game that looks like PvE. I had a game of Alderaan where both the DPS and the healers got tired of running around so we just all stand still and attacked each other like a PvE raid boss. The healer would be the 'boss' and you'd have 3 guys standing next to him trying to DPS him down, and in another corner the enemy's 3 DPS is trying to DPS our one healer down (who is also standing still). Sure we're kind of messing around after the game has been decided but it's not like the DPS was purposely trying to do less damage. It was just so hard to kill anyone in that game that both side decided you might as well stand still to heal/DPS and get less carpal tunnel since nobody was going to die anyway.

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Well at that point you have a Tank peel for that DPS and have your healer keep you up...

 

...which means that the other team will need to focus your healers...

 

...meaning you need to focus their Dps...

 

Oh wait, that is how PVP works! Almost like you have to shift targets and adapt and if you are outmatched you are going to lose.

 

That's the POINT. That's what I was saying. It completely invalidates the argument from all these people who just say "bads are bad because they don't focus healers". No. That's not it at all. "Bads" are an excuse from over powered classes and class combinations so they can feel superior.

 

Do some people suck at the game? Yes. But when you have 3-4 healers on one side, circle healing eachother and tanking a node from 6-7 DPS, that's a broken system.

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I can't stand when people say this. Any competent team kills people focusing their healers. It's never as simple as focus the healers. That's something people say when they know they have a severe advantage and don't want to admit it.

 

...What? If more than 1 person (who knows how to do damage) focuses a healer they die in 10 seconds or less. Nothing fills my colon with rage more than when I get my assassination medal killing a marked healer with allies standing next to me shooting at the tanks like lemmings.

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Its truth, whether im on any dps it really matters not they're all the same i can spam snipe, grav round, smash, or maul like a braindead moron or have a optimized 'skilled' rotation and my team wins and loses the same but if Im on my healer or my team has good healers boom win about every time. Healing and having healers is the only thing that matters in PvP in this game. They're so overpowered it's ridiculous. The End.

 

Not really true. To win a warzone you basically need people filling roles. You need a couple good DPS, at least one competent heal, ball carrier if it is huttball, person to slow down the enemy team during void star, etc.

 

Having 1 healer meets one of those requirements. So naturally when you play that healer, you're going to see more wins. That doesn't mean DPS don't matter, they're just more common and less likely to be absent entirely from a team.

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their are two problems with healers.

 

you either have none or to much of them in your team.

 

a proper matchmaker would fix that issue.

 

This, it's been pretty much been the case the entire game

 

Either you got none, or you have to many and don't have enough dps

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I do enjoy healing for a little while, what I don't enjoy is the fact that I rarely heal a game where people actually taunt those attacking me or help in any way. I'm just expected to keep them alive when they run into a pack of enemys like I'm Jesus.

 

That being said, healing is very bland on here compared to other games I've played (like gw1). It's basically just target ally > cast heal = result.

 

Gw1 for example had hundreds of skills just dedicated to healing of sorts. Protection, enchantments, gaurds, buffs etc etc. One skill may seem worthless, but when paired with another or a certain circumstance it becomes great. It gave some diversity and made unique builds. On here it's just the same few abilities over and over and gets boring really, really fast.

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Boring or not, the op is right healing is all that matters. If two of them are together they are virtually unstoppable if guarded. I have seen four or five dps try to kill one operative that was guarded by one jugg and being healed by sorc. You can't kill anyone. If you attack the sorc, jugg switches guard and operative heals sorc. Attack jugg they both heal jugg. This three person combo can hold any point by themselves against a whole team of dps.

 

It rather silly actually. If I see this combo on an enemy team I know it's a loss if my team doesn't have at least two healers to match.

 

Healing needs to be toned down.

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