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Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
12.28.2013 , 11:01 PM | #231
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVindictus View Post
How bad would scouts have it if they did not have a secondary weapon, or it was limited to sabotage probes?

I think scouts do most of their damage via primary blasters but for them to be able to use lock on missiles at all (particularly flashfires/stings, who can use cluster missiles) boosts their reliability to do damage a bit much.

I think scouts should be limited to primary weapons only. Scouts are supposed to be lighter frame, that's where they get their speed/maneuverability from, but when they're packing 20+missiles, where is their smaller frame coming from?

Removing secondary weapons would mean that while yes, a scout can fly circles around a strike fighter, a strike fighter can lock cluster missiles onto them and still do good damage. That stops being an advantage when the scout is also locking on cluster missiles.
First off there's nothing wrong with the unguided rocket pods, maybe just maybe they should drop the load out of rocket pods by 25%, though I only say this because the large load out lets the scout better perform a role strikers are ment for, which is attacking well armored targets such as turrets. One of my guildmates does frequently fire himself dry on rockets though and he is an excellent pilot. so all in all they could leave the rocket capacity alone for the moment at least on the novadive/black bolt.

For the Sting/flashfire I'm with you. 20+ cluster missiles is a disturbingly big loadout. If you'll allow me to don my Role Playing hat for a moment. The the scout achieves it's maneuverability exclusively though it's power to weight ratio this is star wars lore and to what can be accepted good physics(yes I know physics and star wars don't meet). Additionally the sting/flashfire represent the A-Wing and the Tie interceptor though really they represent the A-wing as the Tie interceptor was unshielded and carried no missiles. The A-wing had very limited ammo capacity and a only token shields. Simply said if you look at the ships they could never fit that loadout in those hulls, and even if you talk about external racking the weight ratio would be skunked.

Ok RP hat off. A limited load of cluster missiles would go a long way to balancing the interceptor scouts, the burst lasers still need blunting too, It would drastically change the play of the pilots if they need to suddenly use their missiles sparingly.

Truth be told halving(approximately) the missile/rocket loadout on the scouts would probably solve the issue that scouts and strike fighters don't have clear lines between what their roles are.

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mr_sim
12.28.2013 , 11:05 PM | #232
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
LoL clusters, I have never met a good scout pilot that uses clusters extensively. Please clusters are a cheap trick that are nothing more than a psych weapon. I often run out of the things early in a match and fight on with no reduction in capacity without them.

However removing rocket pods would hurt the class hard.
rocket pods agreed they need to stay, though maybe a smaller capacity at most 25% reduction though.

Cluster missiles are no so benign they are vital to the uber burst 2 second kill scouts are doing. They really do make a difference.

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Zoom_VI
12.28.2013 , 11:12 PM | #233
Quote: Originally Posted by mr_sim View Post
rocket pods agreed they need to stay, though maybe a smaller capacity at most 25% reduction though.

Cluster missiles are no so benign they are vital to the uber burst 2 second kill scouts are doing. They really do make a difference.
So basically you have a problem with the burst and therefore you want overcharge and burst lasers nerfed. You can't burst people with stuff that sets all sorts of alarms off in their cockpit.

That's what you need no need to write entire threads about the whole freaking class and on top of that bring the poor innocent Novadrives into it aswell.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

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mr_sim
12.28.2013 , 11:30 PM | #234
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
So basically you have a problem with the burst and therefore you want overcharge and burst lasers nerfed. You can't burst people with stuff that sets all sorts of alarms off in their cockpit.
Honestly I"m a striker pilot I know the burst exists i know what it looks like, the best pilots use cluster missiles as part of it, this I have seen many times. But I don't know the exact build that makes this burst, all I know is Burst lasers are part of it. I hear overcharge lasers and I hear some bypass talk too. seriously if you or anybody would explain step by step what they are doing I'd appreciate it. I only argue mechanics and what's good for the game, I need a scout pilot to tell me what exactly needs to change. Problem is most pilots will stick their heals in the mud to fight a nerf.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
That's what you need no need to write entire threads about the whole freaking class and on top of that bring the poor innocent Novadrives into it as well.
So this is a few weeks old this thread is, So old that there were few to none Stings/flashfires in Que as nobody sayve a select few had the fleet req by that point. I had a misguided nerf-on for the black bolt at that time I was young and stupid(gameplay wise) no the Nova dive isn't OP or if it is is buy a very small percentage, The novadive is "easymode" but not OP.

I changed my tone as my L2P went up but more so as discussion in this thread we managed to better define what role the scouts and strikers were ment to be. The novas are still pushing into the strikers role too much and a reduced loadout on both scout would fix that nicely.

It was a bit of serendipity that the flashfire came around with it's own balance issues that got this thread going again and is what you see now. but do look at the start date on the thread it was before flashfire got purchased on masse.

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LeonBraun
12.29.2013 , 02:08 AM | #235
Quote: Originally Posted by mr_sim View Post
First off there's nothing wrong with the unguided rocket pods, maybe just maybe they should drop the load out of rocket pods by 25%, though I only say this because the large load out lets the scout better perform a role strikers are ment for, which is attacking well armored targets such as turrets. One of my guildmates does frequently fire himself dry on rockets though and he is an excellent pilot. so all in all they could leave the rocket capacity alone for the moment at least on the novadive/black bolt.

For the Sting/flashfire I'm with you. 20+ cluster missiles is a disturbingly big loadout. If you'll allow me to don my Role Playing hat for a moment. The the scout achieves it's maneuverability exclusively though it's power to weight ratio this is star wars lore and to what can be accepted good physics(yes I know physics and star wars don't meet). Additionally the sting/flashfire represent the A-Wing and the Tie interceptor though really they represent the A-wing as the Tie interceptor was unshielded and carried no missiles. The A-wing had very limited ammo capacity and a only token shields. Simply said if you look at the ships they could never fit that loadout in those hulls, and even if you talk about external racking the weight ratio would be skunked.

Ok RP hat off. A limited load of cluster missiles would go a long way to balancing the interceptor scouts, the burst lasers still need blunting too, It would drastically change the play of the pilots if they need to suddenly use their missiles sparingly.

Truth be told halving(approximately) the missile/rocket loadout on the scouts would probably solve the issue that scouts and strike fighters don't have clear lines between what their roles are.
The role of a Scout is clear. It's to get in and out quick, that's why the burst damage is there. They don't have the sustained DPS of a Striker. Once they blow their CD's they are vulnerable for several minutes.

The whole point of a Scout is to race in and cap satellites, with the support and punch of a Striker. The Scout and Striker help each other out this way. The Striker is a more rounded fighter and has much greater durability and sustained DPS compared to the Scout.

Scouts are objective fighters, meant to distract, lure fighters, and cap satellites. Strikers are meant to do the heavy sustained DPS and much of the fighter killing. Any Scout looking to top kill charts is not fulfilling their role. Scouts should be topping turret kills and objective numbers.
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mr_sim
12.29.2013 , 02:25 AM | #236
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonBraun View Post
The role of a Scout is clear. It's to get in and out quick, that's why the burst damage is there. They don't have the sustained DPS of a Striker. Once they blow their CD's they are vulnerable for several minutes.

The whole point of a Scout is to race in and cap satellites, with the support and punch of a Striker. The Scout and Striker help each other out this way. The Striker is a more rounded fighter and has much greater durability and sustained DPS compared to the Scout.

Scouts are objective fighters, meant to distract, lure fighters, and cap satellites. Strikers are meant to do the heavy sustained DPS and much of the fighter killing. Any Scout looking to top kill charts is not fulfilling their role. Scouts should be topping turret kills and objective numbers.
All true this is a perfect description of the role.......................of the NoveDive. Bioware defines the Strikers as a turret killer however

The flashfire seem to be best defined as the Space Superiority fighter. In other terms the fighter that kills fighters, please note the GS isn't really a fighter no is the bomber. Hence the Flashfire is focus built to kill:
- Stings
- Black Bolts
- Rycers
- Quells

Strikers out break and out turn Scouts meaning they will win the long fight(dogfight). understand that out turn is not the same as out maneuver. This is why a striker out flies scout in confined spaces, See: scouts constantly crashing into everything.

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LeonBraun
12.29.2013 , 02:36 AM | #237
Well, if BioWare has designated the Striker at the turret killer, then they've done a poor job of it.

No, in fact the Scouts are turret killers (and objective based fighters in general), whether it be the NovaDove or the Flashfire, the only slight difference is the Flashfire sacrifices the engine capacity of the Nova for some offensive gain.

Honestly, Strikers aren't anywhere near as good turret killers as the Scouts. The Rocket Pods of the Scout are SPECIFICALLY designed to take out turrets, as they're quick but have a really low accuracy on anything that moves.

People's issue here is getting taken out by Scouts using them on stationary fighter targets. Once fighters start moving it takes much longer for a Scout to get a kill on a ship, more so if they're CD's are on cool down. This is the way to counter offensive Scouts.
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LeonBraun
12.29.2013 , 02:45 AM | #238
Quote: Originally Posted by mr_sim View Post
First off there's nothing wrong with the unguided rocket pods, maybe just maybe they should drop the load out of rocket pods by 25%, though I only say this because the large load out lets the scout better perform a role strikers are ment for, which is attacking well armored targets such as turrets. One of my guildmates does frequently fire himself dry on rockets though and he is an excellent pilot. so all in all they could leave the rocket capacity alone for the moment at least on the novadive/black bolt.
The entire purpose of the Rocket Pods are to be turret killers for the Scout, which in being objective based fighters, is the primary role of the Scout. The Rocket Pods work great on stationary targets, but have a super low accuracy on anything that moves, which is why your friend runs dry hunting ships with those. That is not the intended purpose of the Rocket Pod.

The issue here lies in the fact that Rocket Pods also make wonderful burst DPS when combined with blaster offensive CD's when used on stationary ships. The best defence against these types of Scouts is to be mobile. Once this happens, people will note that a Rocket Pod equipped Scout will take a while to down another ship, unless it is flying in a straight line, or trying to play chicken with a Scout that just popped their CD's.
Honalee - Guild Leader of Midnight Sunrise - The Harbinger Server

The Lightwarder Legacy - The Harbinger Server Honalee - Honaloo - Hona - Panidora
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mr_sim
12.29.2013 , 02:53 AM | #239
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonBraun View Post
which is why your friend runs dry hunting ships with those. That is not the intended purpose of the Rocket Pod.
.
an assumption. Last match I was with him and he ran dry we had the pubs on the ropes and he wasn't dying enough to get a reload, I don't know if he uses them ship to ship or not.

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Resipsal
12.29.2013 , 02:54 AM | #240
Quote:
First of all, you've been talking about all scouts, not just the Flashfire/Sting. And for the record, the Flashfire is no more OP than the NovaDive is. Again, Scouts have a role.
If the OP does not mind me stepping in to help defend him... If you read the entire thread you'll see that fairly early on in the theorycrafting process we noticed the Flashfire has a lot of powerful options that are unavailable to the Novadive. The OP has since amended his thesis to suggest that Flashfires alone are overpowered.

If you believe the two scouts are equally powerful, then can you explain what powerful components the Novadive has to compete with the Flashfire's Burst Cannons, Quad Lasers, Cluster Missiles, Blaster Overcharge, and shield reactor?

Quote:
The role of a Scout is clear. It's to get in and out quick, that's why the burst damage is there. They don't have the sustained DPS of a Striker. Once they blow their CD's they are vulnerable for several minutes.
Several minutes? Blaster overcharge lasts 12 seconds with a 40 second cooldown. Not only can it be used twice in the same minute, but it has a minimum uptime of 30%, and realistically will be significantly higher than that. Distortion Field can also be used several times per minute, and that cooldown provides damn near invulnerability for 6 seconds.

And even if we ignore blaster overcharge and distortion field for a second, in what way to strikers have better sustained damage? They can switch weapons, but with any given weapon they'll only do about as well as the Flashfire without its cooldowns.

Quote:
The whole point of a Scout is to race in and cap satellites, with the support and punch of a Striker. The Scout and Striker help each other out this way. The Striker is a more rounded fighter and has much greater durability and sustained DPS compared to the Scout.
I agree that it *should* be this way, but it clearly isn't working this way right now. If you are going to convince us that the strikers have more "punch" or "sustained dps," you're going to have to explain which components that strikers have to provide these benefits, because I have yet to see them.