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Rotation for the Fury Marauder and the Rage Juggernaut (Scaeva)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Rotation for the Fury Marauder and the Rage Juggernaut (Scaeva)

salaciousc's Avatar


salaciousc
12.04.2017 , 08:02 AM | #11
In my opinion it was a good design decission to remove clipping, it gave players with modern hardware and a fast internet connection an unfair advantage.

I use an older laptop for SWTOR (->bigger latencies) where clipping did not really work. At the test dummy I could sometimes buff 3 attacks, but when I checked my combat log of pvp matches and raids clipping systematically failed. In real fights only 2 attacks profitted from the armor debuff.

The game mechanics of Fury are much more complicated than of Carnage, gamers who use a priority list produce many more fillers and delays of core attacks. The Cascade Force is a bit tough to handle with a prio list, Fury will parse much lower.

I am glad they removed clipping.

Bird_of_Thunder's Avatar


Bird_of_Thunder
12.18.2017 , 02:52 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by salaciousc View Post
In my opinion it was a good design decission to remove clipping, it gave players with modern hardware and a fast internet connection an unfair advantage.

I use an older laptop for SWTOR (->bigger latencies) where clipping did not really work. At the test dummy I could sometimes buff 3 attacks, but when I checked my combat log of pvp matches and raids clipping systematically failed. In real fights only 2 attacks profitted from the armor debuff.

The game mechanics of Fury are much more complicated than of Carnage, gamers who use a priority list produce many more fillers and delays of core attacks. The Cascade Force is a bit tough to handle with a prio list, Fury will parse much lower.

I am glad they removed clipping.
The problem is they didn't actually remove it. You can still activate Ferocity before Vicious Throw hits and it'll take up a Ferocity stack, which basically means that you can still clip but it doesn't provide any advantage at all, it just screws everyone who has it muscle-memorized already.
So they didn't fix the problem, they kinda just nerfed us without fixing what they said they would and in the process completely ****ed Carnage's design as a spec. Fury is not a hard spec to play at all, it's a fairly simple priority system and a monkey could push decent rating in Ranked PvP with it. That's not to say Carnage is hard, its rotation is very user-friendly especially with Ferocity now. But it's damage is severely worse than Fury's, this is widely agreed upon by Marauder mains pretty much everywhere. The only problem Fury has is sometimes Rage management, and even then? Not that big of a deal. It parses better than Carnage now, and that's a fact. By taking away Carnage's speedplay, they took away any semblance of skill by playing the spec and effectively punish people for playing it in PvE over Fury.
Drazir
Carnage Marauder
Ebon Hawk, U.S --> Star Forge, U.S.

PrometheanDeath's Avatar


PrometheanDeath
12.18.2017 , 03:19 PM | #13
Devs should just change ferocity by
A. add 1 more stack to each window ( 3 outside beserk, and 4 inside beserk) and
B. vicious throw and dual saber throw no longer are abilities affected by ferocity, and the other abilities that can be used in ferocity get a 5% increase in damage dealt.
This helps by slightly increasing the damage lost of using your throw abilities being clipped into ferocity, and finally devs can stop dancing around clipping. Increasing the damage of devastating, massacre, gore, and sweeping slash when expelling stacks, though honestly thinking 10% is too much. I preferred clipping and the old ferocity myself, but if they honestly want to push the ferocity stacks and wanting to get rid of clipping, at least don't destroy the spec in the process.

Dread_Bone's Avatar


Dread_Bone
01.03.2018 , 12:57 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by salaciousc View Post
In my opinion it was a good design decission to remove clipping, it gave players with modern hardware and a fast internet connection an unfair advantage.

I use an older laptop for SWTOR (->bigger latencies) where clipping did not really work. At the test dummy I could sometimes buff 3 attacks, but when I checked my combat log of pvp matches and raids clipping systematically failed. In real fights only 2 attacks profitted from the armor debuff.

The game mechanics of Fury are much more complicated than of Carnage, gamers who use a priority list produce many more fillers and delays of core attacks. The Cascade Force is a bit tough to handle with a prio list, Fury will parse much lower.

I am glad they removed clipping.
Life doesn't change to make everyone equal, nor should this game. People who spend the money for "modern hardware" and time to master the class should be better than those that don't.

PERIOD

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
01.28.2018 , 12:56 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by salaciousc View Post
In my opinion it was a good design decission to remove clipping, it gave players with modern hardware and a fast internet connection an unfair advantage.

I use an older laptop for SWTOR (->bigger latencies) where clipping did not really work. At the test dummy I could sometimes buff 3 attacks, but when I checked my combat log of pvp matches and raids clipping systematically failed. In real fights only 2 attacks profitted from the armor debuff.

The game mechanics of Fury are much more complicated than of Carnage, gamers who use a priority list produce many more fillers and delays of core attacks. The Cascade Force is a bit tough to handle with a prio list, Fury will parse much lower.

I am glad they removed clipping.
I could clip vicious throw with 130ms ping plus unpredictable ping spikes of up to 300~ ms

and in pvp (warzones) and operations, I had approx 30 fps

assuming hardware is the reason is a relatively laughable point
simply put, you never put practice into it, and even if you did, it clearly wasn't good enough
people put time and pride into their efforts to become better gamers, a class shouldn't be made easier simply because an entity whether minority or majority exists that doesn't want to put the time down to perfect their gameplay and mechanics.
Calling it 'fair' is beyond on insult, because you've put into question the time those people have spent to get better at a game they enjoy. Now their time has been wasted, and you think they should be grateful for it? Well aren't you special

salaciousc's Avatar


salaciousc
02.21.2018 , 12:52 PM | #16
deleted

Ardarell_Solo's Avatar


Ardarell_Solo
02.26.2018 , 07:16 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Dread_Bone View Post
Life doesn't change to make everyone equal,
Friendly gods would aim for equal chances, though ;-)

Quote: Originally Posted by Dread_Bone View Post
nor should this game.
It obviously can't. But it can give everyone equal opportunities.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dread_Bone View Post
People who spend the money for "modern hardware"
No.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dread_Bone View Post
and time to master the class should be better than those that don't.
Yes.

However, here's what defines if devs of games with group content and thus social mechanics have done their job "better": See to it that dedication gives advantage, but balance the amount in a way that people whose circumstances limit the dedication they can give the game don't feel completely outcast. Otherwise you'll very soon be sitting in a very small pool of elitist no-lifers ;-)
El'ethon - Sentinel <Taking the Jawas to Alderaan> T3-M4

salaciousc's Avatar


salaciousc
02.28.2018 , 12:40 PM | #19
@Dread_Bone, Bonzenaattori

Now I am curious what real masters of Carnage are capable of. Could you send your rotations, please?

So far I have only seen sequences of 4 or 5 attacks but no real Carnage rotations. Attack sequences (and priority lists) for Fury and Rage parse lower than the 2 posted rotations, perhaps there are similar reasons why Carnage underperforms atm.
I think the community needs a real rotation for Carnage.

Please open a new thread, a discussion about Carnage does not really fit in here.

Scaeva

salaciousc's Avatar


salaciousc
06.27.2018 , 12:26 PM | #20
#bump