When 1.2 came around, we saw two things. The rise of many other classes, and the monumental crash of our own. Since then, we are a class that even other classes agree can't 1v1, we are a class optimized for a pvp game style that isn't part of this game. We finally caught a break when they gave us a lightning talent that allows us to stun with our static barrier- the bubble- but the minute marauders began to complain, BW promised them this would get a nerf.

Right now many players have returned for the f2p launch- to see what has changed, what is new, and most importantly- what BW has done to restore the faith of all the sorcs who quit following the 1.2 NGE patch that gutted the game. Needless to say- most aren't impressed they're coming back to yet another nerf aimed at appeasing the class currently doing best in pvp.

The stun bubble is already the subject of a long post- so I won't go much into something here that BW has already decided to nerf. I'll instead go over some things that, in return, might make the nerf manageable and stop making us a joke.

What makes a sorcerer poor for pvp?

Ultimately, many of us likely realize we're being targetted, locked down, smashed to bits nonstop every game- and those that have multiple characters see the difference right away, but where is the problem?

Many look at the end of a match and see, as a sorc, they aren't actually doing less healing or damage than other classes, yet as more and more games go by it becomes clearer and clearer you offer less as a sorc.

The problem isn't the overall sustained DPS. Sorcs are good at cheesing the end of match numbers- lots of dots, lots of aoe, and most importantly lots of slow damage and healing. What we don't have is the burst, and the pressure.

Consider if you've ever specced a healing sorc before- when almost any enemy starts to attack you, you have to move- look for LoS from snipers, or try to run from mara, juggs, sins and PTs. When a DPS sorc attacks you though- you do not. You don't worry about being locked out and killed, because you know there is no chance a sorc is going to kill you faster than you can heal up, or lock you down long enough to kill you.

There's two reasons- one, they lack the damage and the density of interrupts that allow that damage to outscale a healer's healing, while all those other classes easily have that ability. Two, sorcs give you no reason to move- other classes if you stand still you'll be obliterated, but against a DPS sorc you can stand still and heal, and it's like being batted by a wet noodle... having to move as a healer though means losing out on healing, so any other class simply has to keep pursuing you and you will die sooner or later.

To make it worse- classes like a marauder will keep you in place, while pounding you with interrupts. When we root another class it gives us a bit of time to move away- when we're rooted though, it gives other classes time to lock us down and lay on damage.

What can we do well though?

We can kite and wear down an enemy over a long period of time. Even so though- other classes have anti kiting tools of their own, so while a game like WoW has kiting classes that are fairly one sided- even kiting we don't have a significant advantage when force charge is on such a short CD, and our kiting abilities are not as good as they should be.

We can support. The stun bubble is a big part of this, giving us the ability to provide good CC for capping. Without it, we generally still have support tools for healing with a tank backing us up.

What can we not do that makes us in need of a fix?

We don't function in the WZ that exist in the same way others do. Now, with the bubble stun we temporarily had a function- to control people going for objectives in WZs- but when that is nerfed, we become very limited in usefulness.

Our lack of burst gives us almost no use on offense and in stopping enemy ball carriers. Simply put, we cannot down a healer defending a turret like others can, we cannot even handle non-healers because our strength is kiting- which takes time. That might be fine in some cases, but in this game you have a very small window of opportunity to kill all defenders and make a capture before they respawn- sorcs are not built for that. Worst, our best builds even further hurt our damage output since we almost must lightning hybrid to have any survivability.

As healers, we have some some defensive function- but, it is no different from any other healer, and we are as if not more reliant on having a tank support us. When targeted, no tank is going to do much to stop a pair or trio of high burst classes from tearing us to pieces. Ultimately, sustained is weak in pvp for a reason, and even weaker when objectives rely more heavily on burst in this game. We are simply poorly made for this game's pvp.

What to do about it?

We need to be brought in line with other classes. We cannot be inferior in defensive CDs, escapes, mobility and burst all at the same time- it doesn't work period, and it isn't working.

So, the main two things that ultimately need to be buffed for when they nerf the bubble stun are- output and mobility. We need to be able to put out damage numbers that can compare burstwise to other classes, and healing numbers that can reasonably keep someone being attacked alive- right now, healing not only is too easy to counter, but damage is so high you don't even need to for several classes. We also need to be able to have great mobility if our only survivable feature is our movement.

I think if these things can get a serious look at and a significant boost- we may see sorcs being contenders once again as they were pre-1.2. It will need to be significant though, because the nerf we got in 1.2 was massive.

Here are some suggestions for things that could achieve this.

Baseline Improvements

Ideally we want to see all specs having viability in pvp- no more needing to hybrid, and no more disappointing 31 point talents. We shouldn't be at a point where everyone considers it near insanity to not be a hybrid- part of this was caused by the bubble stun, and before 1.2 it was common to hybrid for chain lightning instant procs- but even between 1.2 and the bubble stun, sorcs were commonly going hybrids, not because hybrids were good- but because pures offer almost nothing.

Crowd Control

- we have no root, this must be changed. We also have no way to perma snare in a game where everything that wants to kill us is able to gap close on short CD or hit us at ranged at our kiting range, and most have spammable snares, some even aoe snares.

Force Slow- I suggest putting a 2 second root at the beginning of force slow. It has a 12 second CD, putting it close to where classes like juggs/mara have their baseline root at. Improve the slow to the full 12 seconds- again, if we are meant to be the kiting class we shouldn't have our kiting tools be some of the worst in the game.

Overload- Make it radial again- making it conal was the stupidest thing ever, considering it's main use is to try to get someone off your tail. I'm not sure why we got this nerf in the first place, frankly I don't want to know. Add a 50% snare for 3 seconds to it, as is without lightning spec it's very easy to just walk right back.

Whirlwind- Automatically instant. Other classes get aoe mezzes, including marauders for no logical reason- which are instant to top it off. I don't mind WW being single target- but at least make it instant so it can be used when you need it rather than easily interrupted.

CC Breakers

- We are a woefully easy class to shut down, interrupt and prevent from doing anything for an entire fight- and as an extremely squishy class, that's even worse. As a class that relies on mobility as our number one way to live (we have zero defensive CDs on top of the lightest armour in the game)- we need abilities that give us mobility.

Static Barrier- while this ability is up, the buff grants interrupt protection.

Force Speed- this also breaks and grants immunity to roots at baseline, as it always should have- if roots are going to be defended as 'off resolve because they're actually considered 100% snares', then force speed should ignore roots as it ignores snares. The ability is too easy to counter with a stun, mez, pull or leap already, that roots can shut it down too is terrible.

Recklessness- also breaks CC on use

Unbreakable Will- (and all baseline CC breaks of the same type for all classes), include 2 second total CC immunity, I think it also should automatically be restored on death while in WZs so you simply have one CC break to use per life.

Damage and Healing

- burst heal ability needs to be improved, healer mobility must be improved, burst damage needs to be improved

Dark Infusion- 3 seconds is an absurd length for a heal that ultimately heals less than an instant smash, instant rail shot or instant annihilate- etc... I'd suggest leaving the heal value untouched, but reducing the cost by 5 force, and the cast time by .5 seconds. This would give us enough breathing room to heal, while making it at least slightly harder to interrupt- as is, you start a 2.5 or 3 second DI and even clickers are having an easy time interrupting it.

Dark Heal- change this entirely. Right now this heal is at a point where it looks like it doesn't know what it is supposed to do. Ultimately, it's a heal that, for a corruption healer at least, is over half the cast of a DI, while costing about as much but healing half as much. Utlimately- it looks like an emergency heal, but it is so weak it is pretty much ignored. Instead- make this an emergency heal to handle burst damage or get off a heal when you're being hounded. Increase the cost to 80, keep the cast the same but make dark mending also reduce it's activation half a second, and make it heal as much if not a bit more than DI. This way- it'll be useful when you need it, but spam it and you'll run dry very fast.

Static Barrier- this really needs to scale. When I was in champ gear with 15k health and this protected me from 3.5k damage it was great, especially since most classes weren't hitting for that all the time. Since then though, abilities that once hit me for 3.5k are now hitting me for 7k, while static barrier has barely improved. Double its scaling rate so it can at least try to keep up with how out of control TTK is.

All baseline damage abilties- scale them better, almost across the board every one of them should be doing considerably more damage than it is right now to be competitive with other classes. Also, make Crushing Darkness internal damage rather than kinetic.

Tree Specific

Corruption

- haunting presence- 2% healing/point

- dark mending- reduce DI to 2 seconds, DH to 1 second

- Force Bending- if you leave DI at 2.5 seconds- bring back the instant DI proc (just make it so it can't double proc this time). Change Revivification to 'duration increased by 5 seconds'.

- Sith Purity- On top of what is already there, it also removes one extra condition, and it can purge all conditions including CC (adjust merc/operative heal specs accordingly)

- Fadeout- Force speed now grants 50% chance/point to grant CC immunity for duration

- Conspiring Force- increase snare to 20%/point

- Innervate- is immune to interrupts, like ravage, also grants 50% more healing on the final tic

- Force Surge- make a 1 point talent that puts consumption on a 1.5 second CD but also removes it from the GCD

Lightning

- Electric Bindings- change it to direct damage done breaks it, not aoe or dots

- Lightning Storm- buffs CL damage by 20% as well for that strike

- Poltarity Shift- also grants mobility while casting, reduce CD to 1min 30 seconds.

- Conduction- 2%/point

- Thundering Blast- is instant, doesn't auto crit but with affliction up it does double damage

- Backlash- we all know this will be nerfed (BW said so). I'd suggest, remove the ability to declick buffs, and make this root for 3 seconds at no resolve cost

Madness

-Sith Defiance- 2%/point

- Oppressing Force- reduce stun CD by 10 sec/point

- Parasitism - 1%/point

- Madness- you can also move while using force lightning

- Death Field- affects 5 targets, has a 5 seconds 50% snare on it

- Haunted Dreams- also removes all dots, or, makes WW not break on dots

- Creeping Terror- duration 9 seconds, does double the total damage it does now, also, if purged gives no resolve/resolve ignoring 3 second stun to purger.

Those are the ideas I can think of- now, if every single one of those were to happen that would be radical- I am aware of that so don't post with 'omg you'd be so OP with all that!' my hope is that even a few of these would occur- specifically some changes to the top of the trees, and some of the mobility changes. Utimately- Creeping Terror does terrible damage, and so does Thundering Blast- which is a big part of the reason why since day 1 sorcs have been using hybrid specs more than pures.

Make pure builds worthwhile, make burst possible, make this squishy class have mobility to make up for it, and give us a chance to get our spells off without being a cakewalk to interrupt.

I like your suggestions, all of them are great and anyone would help immensely.

Another thing I thought that might help with lightning DPS would be to add in an auto crit to chain lightning when crushing darkness is active on to Conduction. To help keep CL from being spammed I also think that the cooldown should not be affected in the same way that Lightning Storm finishes CL's cooldown.

Bump, is true this.

We can support. Heal a teamate in a 1vs1 for example by healing him and dotting the other, but anyone can do this, pretty much or at least just dps the other guy down in only a fraction of the time.

I like pvp as a sorcs but its quite hard work and often demoralising, but you do what you can with the tools at hand.

What we'd do for a bit of proper burst damage.

Good post.

The biggest fixes I would like to see are:

- DoTs hitting way harder than they do

- a complete redesign of Consumption for healing sorcs...it's a horrible design IMO.

I agree- consumption right now is so bad that even before the bubble stun- you weren't a viable pvp healer unless you hybrid lightning simply due to lightning effusion being that much better. The bubble stun just made it even better.

Ultimately though- people weren't so much speccing lightning because it was good- they were doing so because corruption's force regen- consumption- was that bad.

Squishiest class in game, no defensives- and our resource regen is based on dealing huge damage to ourselves? Terrible.

I'll also point out something should be done about madness procs- crushing darkness proc is great, that's a good ability... lightning strike though does worse damage that most other classes instants, and it shows because using the proc for instant lightning strike is a loss of dps over simply continuing to use force lightning spam. Either LS damage needs a boost (it does, a big big one) or make the proc also remove the GCD of what it procs so that we can continue what- apparantly- constitutes being a mobile dots class to BW.... standing still and channelling force lightning over and over.

lightning strike blows. So does chain lightning for that matter.

I think the key problem with the class is that the only basic DPS attack worth a poop is force lightning (and the ability to chain it non stop, proc wrath, etc).

Bumping for effort. You have some nice points that you made in there fung, hopefully bioware will listen. I've been trying to increase awareness to fundamental sorc problems in pvp for a while now with little success but I hope this will grab more attention.

Maybe I should start posting on the marauder forums.....it seems like I would be more likely to get developer feedback if I post over there.

Also although its not nearly as relevant I would personally like to see an improvement to the sorc melee abilities. There is some real untapped potential there that could be used to help the sorcerer class in pvp without effecting pve much. As currently our melee attacks are worthless, aside from rare situations where you may want to hit an assassin that is force cloaked, and really cuts down on our available options.

It is a fundamental problem that pvp is all about burst damage, yet we deal dot damage and have no dot protection. Assassins, Operatives, Sorcs and even Marauders can cleanse dots off themselves with certain abilities. Dot damage based classes always have a "ramp up" time before the damage becomes optimal. It is a huge hurt against all sorc dps specs that they rely on dots to produce optimal damage and yet there are a variety of ways to remove dots. The only way to "guard" your dots is to cover them with force slow, which as it turns out only helps you keep your dots on a sorc/sage target. GO FIGURE

Watching two skilled sorcs duel is actually very funny. If they both know when to use purge and what to interrupt it will take forever before the duel is finished since neither of them can produce decent pressure.

Ok, first before I say anything, I want to say that i know sorcs are easily the weakest pvp class. I play a deception sin and my crits on sorcs are usually about 1-2k more than on any other class. I you look at the marauder forums, or the pt forums ect. you will see that most of the HUGE hits they mention pulling off are either on undergeared players or sorcs.

That said, I went to look at the 1.2 patch notes for the nerf mentioned, this is the entirety of the changes that affected sorcs:

Sith Inquisitor

General

Deflection's effects are now more noticeable.

Electrocute's visual effects now occur more quickly after activation.

Energize's effect now triggers a sound effect when it occurs.

Force Lightning now correctly plays its sound effects when the initial application of damage kills the target.

Force Slow visual effects now begin and end at the correct times.

The Sacrifice ability has been removed from the Sith Inquisitor class. A similar ability can now be unlocked through the Legacy System.

Shock sound effects have been polished.

Sorcerer

Due to changes in Sorcerer skill trees, Sorcerers have had their skill points refunded.

Corrected an issue with Static Barrier that prevented its visual effects from refreshing when its effects were reapplied.

Extrication now modifies threat by the correct amount.

Corruption

Force Bending no longer unintentionally allows its buff to be applied to more than one healing ability. Its effects have been slightly redesigned. It now increases the critical chance of Dark Heal by 60% and reduces the Force cost of Dark Infusion by 30%.

Conspiring Force now refreshes properly when Affliction is refreshed.

Dark Resilience now reduces the health spent by Consumption by 2% per point (up from 1% per point).

Fadeout now requires Efficacious Currents instead of Dark Resilience.

Force Surge no longer removes the health cost from Consumption.

Revivification's tooltip now correctly states that the ability affects a maximum of 8 targets. The ability's functionality hasn't changed.

A display issue that caused the first and second tick of Revivification to appear on top of each other has been corrected.

Lightning

Electric Induction now correctly affects Affliction.

Madness (Sorcerer)

Death Field no longer heals the caster if no targets are hit.

Disintegration now increases the critical chance of Force Lightning and Lightning Strike by 3% per point.

Calcify now increases the damage dealt by Shock, Force Lightning, and Affliction by 2% per point.

Wrath now affects Lightning Strike and Crushing Darkness only. Crushing Darkness's periodic damage now benefits from the 20% damage bonus when it is used to consume the Wrath buff.

Of all of this the only nerfs I saw were:

Wrath now affects Lightning Strike and Crushing Darkness only. Crushing Darkness's periodic damage now benefits from the 20% damage bonus when it is used to consume the Wrath buff.

The only negative effects i saw from this were that CL/Wrath proc baised hybrids were no longer possible, and any instant heals that might have occured were not possible. This, while irritating to people using the CL/Wrath build, is a nerf to them, not the whole class(Unless that was the only viable build for sorcs).

The Sacrifice ability has been removed from the Sith Inquisitor class. A similar ability can now be unlocked through the Legacy System.

Correct me if I am wrong but I dont think this was ever used in pvp anyway.

Force Bending no longer unintentionally allows its buff to be applied to more than one healing ability. Its effects have been slightly redesigned. It now increases the critical chance of Dark Heal by 60% and reduces the Force cost of Dark Infusion by 30%.

Bug fix?

Death Field no longer heals the caster if no targets are hit.]

LOL #Biofail

Bugfix

All in all these seem like small things, aside from the Wrath change. I think the real problem for sorcs in 1.2 started because of large buffs to all Marauder trees. if you will recall, most people back in 1.1 (and earlier) thought Maras were ****. these buffs, I believe, affected sorcs more than the nerfs they received.

These are the Marauder related patch notes:

Sith Warrior

General

Disruption no longer costs Rage to activate.

Force Charge now places a "root" visual effect on the affected target.

Intimidating Roar no longer costs Rage to activate.

Ravage can no longer be interrupted, and its damage has been increased by approximately 15%.

Vicious Throw can now be used on targets at or below 30% of maximum health (up from 20%).

Marauder

Due to changes to the Marauder skill trees, Marauders have had their skill points refunded.

Berserk (while in Ataru Form) now additionally reduces the Rage cost and global cooldown of Sweeping Slash.

Deadly Throw's "Trauma" effect can no longer be cleansed.

Force Camouflage now additionally reduces all damage taken by 50% while active.

Obfuscate no longer has a Rage cost and is no longer limited by the global cooldown.

Predation now affects all Operation Group members.

Carnage

Ataru Form damage effects (procs) now deal weapon-based damage instead of Force-based damage. The overall damage of these effects has been increased by approximately 10%.

Ataru Form now correctly triggers when fighting very large targets.

Erupting Fury has been replaced by Stagger, which increases Force Charge's immobilize effect.

Unbound now additionally increases the movement speed bonus granted by Predation by 15% per point.

Annihilation

Ferocity has been replaced by Enraged Charge, which increases the Rage generated by Force Charge.

Phantom no longer grants damage reduction while Force Camouflage is active. It now increases the duration of Force Camouflage by 1 second per point and increases the movement speed bonus of Force Camouflage by 10% per point.

Seeping Wound now applies a 50% movement speed reduction (up from 30%).

Short Fuse is now located in Tier 1 of the skill tree and has replaced Quick Recovery.

Rage (Marauder)

Decimate is now located in Tier 1 of the Rage skill tree. It increases the damage dealt by Smash and Sweeping Slash and reduces the cooldown of Smash.

Dominate is now a 3-point skill with the same overall effect. The effect now lasts 20 seconds (up from 15).

Force Alacrity has been replaced by Overpower, which allows Vicious Slash critical hits to have a chance to refund 2 points of Rage while the Marauder is in Shii-Cho Form.

Force Crush's cooldown has been reduced to 18 seconds. Its overall effect is unchanged.

Gravity now specifically affects Crippling Slash and Force Crush.

Obliterate now immobilizes the target for 1 second.

Ravager now increases the damage of Ravage instead of affecting Force Choke.

Relentless Fury has been replaced by Berserker. It requires 2 points in Shockwave and causes Berserk (while in Shii-Cho Form) to immediately grant 2 stacks of Shockwave per point.

Shockwave's buff effects now last 20 seconds (up from 15).

Unbreakable Rage has been removed from the game.

/bump

Sorcs needs a DPS buff. I am a big fan of making our WW unbreakable allowing us to add DOTs to them. But to the poster showing the 1.2 patch notes, I respect your showing the evidence, which are facts/numbers to prove a point. However, there are always changes that go unmentioned. There are always fixes or nerfs they do no list.

Whatever it may be, Sorcs are in need of a SERIOUS DPS increase. Our damage can be easily out healed, specially since we are no very good at multi-targeting (to make up for a lack of single targeting).

Bumping for effort. You have some nice points that you made in there fung, hopefully bioware will listen. I've been trying to increase awareness to fundamental sorc problems in pvp for a while now with little success but I hope this will grab more attention.

 

Maybe I should start posting on the marauder forums.....it seems like I would be more likely to get developer feedback if I post over there.

I'm pretty sure if you could convince them that buffing sorc abilities would be a buff for marauders- they'd roll out an emergency patch hotfixing sorcs by sunday.

Some excellent feedback being provided here for sorcs.

How about this....

Add another dot and combine it with crushing darkness and affliction and force slow all in one and make it instant........double the damage on chain lightning........triple the damage on Lightning Strike whilst halving its force cost.....finally allow sorcs to use their companion in pvp as an auto attack only?

Truth is even with all that we still wouldn't stand out as the top damage dealers BUT at least other players won't just keep walking past sorcs to get to the more important pvpers

................and WHY do Thrash and Saber Strike have to be completely useless?

They need to be tripled just to make 1k damage, hardly matching the marauders 3-7k so we should at least get that don't we all think.

Oh the last thing i want to see is Sorcs everywhere you look, just some perking up where we can take our rightful place at the head of the Empire.....at least alongside the Warriors, but obviously they work for us.

 

Corruption

Force Bending no longer unintentionally allows its buff to be applied to more than one healing ability. Its effects have been slightly redesigned. It now increases the critical chance of Dark Heal by 60% and reduces the Force cost of Dark Infusion by 30%.

Conspiring Force now refreshes properly when Affliction is refreshed.

Dark Resilience now reduces the health spent by Consumption by 2% per point (up from 1% per point).

Fadeout now requires Efficacious Currents instead of Dark Resilience.

Force Surge no longer removes the health cost from Consumption.

Revivification's tooltip now correctly states that the ability affects a maximum of 8 targets. The ability's functionality hasn't changed.

A display issue that caused the first and second tick of Revivification to appear on top of each other has been corrected.

 

Lightning

Electric Induction now correctly affects Affliction.

 

Madness (Sorcerer)

Death Field no longer heals the caster if no targets are hit.

Disintegration now increases the critical chance of Force Lightning and Lightning Strike by 3% per point.

Calcify now increases the damage dealt by Shock, Force Lightning, and Affliction by 2% per point.

Wrath now affects Lightning Strike and Crushing Darkness only. Crushing Darkness's periodic damage now benefits from the 20% damage bonus when it is used to consume the Wrath buff.[/color]

 

Of all of this the only nerfs I saw were:

 

Wrath now affects Lightning Strike and Crushing Darkness only. Crushing Darkness's periodic damage now benefits from the 20% damage bonus when it is used to consume the Wrath buff.

 

The only negative effects i saw from this were that CL/Wrath proc baised hybrids were no longer possible, and any instant heals that might have occured were not possible. This, while irritating to people using the CL/Wrath build, is a nerf to them, not the whole class(Unless that was the only viable build for sorcs).

 

The Sacrifice ability has been removed from the Sith Inquisitor class. A similar ability can now be unlocked through the Legacy System.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I dont think this was ever used in pvp anyway.

 

Force Bending no longer unintentionally allows its buff to be applied to more than one healing ability. Its effects have been slightly redesigned. It now increases the critical chance of Dark Heal by 60% and reduces the Force cost of Dark Infusion by 30%.

 

Bug fix?

 

Death Field no longer heals the caster if no targets are hit.]

 

LOL #Biofail

Bugfix

 

All in all these seem like small things, aside from the Wrath change. I think the real problem for sorcs in 1.2 started because of large buffs to all Marauder trees. if you will recall, most people back in 1.1 (and earlier) thought Maras were ****. these buffs, I believe, affected sorcs more than the nerfs they received.

 

These are the Marauder related patch notes:

 

Sith Warrior

General

Disruption no longer costs Rage to activate.

Force Charge now places a "root" visual effect on the affected target.

Intimidating Roar no longer costs Rage to activate.

Ravage can no longer be interrupted, and its damage has been increased by approximately 15%.

Vicious Throw can now be used on targets at or below 30% of maximum health (up from 20%).

 

Marauder

Due to changes to the Marauder skill trees, Marauders have had their skill points refunded.

Berserk (while in Ataru Form) now additionally reduces the Rage cost and global cooldown of Sweeping Slash.

Deadly Throw's "Trauma" effect can no longer be cleansed.

Force Camouflage now additionally reduces all damage taken by 50% while active.

Obfuscate no longer has a Rage cost and is no longer limited by the global cooldown.

Predation now affects all Operation Group members.

 

Carnage

Ataru Form damage effects (procs) now deal weapon-based damage instead of Force-based damage. The overall damage of these effects has been increased by approximately 10%.

Ataru Form now correctly triggers when fighting very large targets.

Erupting Fury has been replaced by Stagger, which increases Force Charge's immobilize effect.

Unbound now additionally increases the movement speed bonus granted by Predation by 15% per point.

 

Annihilation

Ferocity has been replaced by Enraged Charge, which increases the Rage generated by Force Charge.

Phantom no longer grants damage reduction while Force Camouflage is active. It now increases the duration of Force Camouflage by 1 second per point and increases the movement speed bonus of Force Camouflage by 10% per point.

Seeping Wound now applies a 50% movement speed reduction (up from 30%).

Short Fuse is now located in Tier 1 of the skill tree and has replaced Quick Recovery.

 

Rage (Marauder)

Decimate is now located in Tier 1 of the Rage skill tree. It increases the damage dealt by Smash and Sweeping Slash and reduces the cooldown of Smash.

Dominate is now a 3-point skill with the same overall effect. The effect now lasts 20 seconds (up from 15).

Force Alacrity has been replaced by Overpower, which allows Vicious Slash critical hits to have a chance to refund 2 points of Rage while the Marauder is in Shii-Cho Form.

Force Crush's cooldown has been reduced to 18 seconds. Its overall effect is unchanged.

Gravity now specifically affects Crippling Slash and Force Crush.

Obliterate now immobilizes the target for 1 second.

Ravager now increases the damage of Ravage instead of affecting Force Choke.

Relentless Fury has been replaced by Berserker. It requires 2 points in Shockwave and causes Berserk (while in Shii-Cho Form) to immediately grant 2 stacks of Shockwave per point.

Shockwave's buff effects now last 20 seconds (up from 15).

Unbreakable Rage has been removed from the game.

There's one other change that is much harder to quantify that gets left out. BM gear was improved- including a bonus of about 500 expertise. WH gear was added, and so was recruit gear. Now, recruit gear did have a bit of an entry point. However- before that patch Champ gear was as good or in case better than BM- as well as very accessible. It was pretty trivial to get champ gear as well- not to mention considerably more fun.

That aside- expertise was also altered so that damage was higher than before, and, healing per expertise in turn was lowered- I was able to get in the same spec bigger crits as a champ pre-1.2 then I could after in BM augmented.

There's also the problem that stats scale poorly for a sorc- unfortunately without the typical stats taking programs- we can't actually see this through anything other than hearsay. But, before 1.2 my champ geared sorc's bubble protected against 3.5k damage, now, in part BM part WH augmented- I am a bit over 4k, even though I'm a more healing spec and should have more bonuses even just in my tree.

Damage for marauders though has scaled so much better... I've been trying a lightning spec, and my CL procs are hitting for 1.5k... in WH/BM mixed gear on a cluster of enemies- tops. It hit as low as 800 damage- this ability was critting for up to 4.5k before in Champ gear. I didn't even get a 2.5k damage medal. In fact- I have to get the 5k heal medal out of combat.

I could get the 5k heal and dps easily pre-1.2.

Point is- with how much TTK has lowered, and damage has raised- my damage and healing is inching up or in some cases just worse.

Anyway- that kind of stuff are things I've just noticed, sadly they can't really be proven as the numbers aren't so clear.

For what actually changed in the notes you pointed out- I'll explain why it was so problematic.

Force Bending- no more instant DI. This is MASSIVE for healing in pvp, in fact, this alone almost entirely killed sorc survivability in DPS and healing hybrids alike. Every 6 seconds you could cast resurgence, which in turn gave you an instant DI proc. DI is a 2.5 second cast- you cannot get it off in pvp with someone on you because it's so long and easy to interrupt- yet, it's the only viable heal because, frankly, DH sucks. Being able to, every 6 seconds, get an instant DI meant getting a 3-4.5k heal on demand back when 15k health was the norm. This was nerfed not because it was too powerful- but because there was a bug which let you double instant DI- they weren't able to fix it so they nerfed the whole thing.

It's hard to point out to someone who hasn't experienced both- but that nerf was devastating for sorc survivability. I'd trade dark heal altogether for this ability back.

That was only one heal nerf- consumption also could be free to use after innervate crits- meaning you didn't have to pay up to 2k health to get resource back. So, in the same patch- we are dealing ourselves big damage in heal spec to get resource back (to the point where it became a tactic to die because you got full resource- that's just sad, but true), and having our emergency heal while under fire removed (yes, we now have Unnatural- but, that's a long long CD, and can't save anyone else... plus an extra hotkey- when ultimately DI did it better, faster, and without having a bigger bar that we already have).

Point is- this was a huge pvp nerf to healing sorcs, and to hybrid sorcs (it should be noted that near all sorcs were hybrids, though not all had the healing instant DI- some had more in lightning for the CC). This wasn't a small adjustment- this was a massive nerf.

Next- damage. There were some minor damage nerfs to the two trees that were kinda made up... maybe. But- you can't just shrug off madness proc CL. That was the spec- why? Because it was the one way to produce burst as a sorc. It wasn't as much burst, I should note, as any other class- but it was aoe burst so in some circumstances it could be better.

Ultimately though- it meant you could use crushing, then chain lightning, and death field together could rack up some nice burst, and the CL madness proc was almost a staple of the class- it was odd to have a spec that didn't have it unless you went full healer.

The nerf pretty much halved our burst potential at those moments we needed them- that's again, a huge nerf that can't be taken lightly. When crushing is on CD, now we can only proc lightning strike- lightning strike is so low damage, you do more damage by continuing to spam force lightning.

There is no excuse in the world for a proc that was once vital for the class's damage to be so bad, you would do more damage by not using it. It's atrocious what they did to the class with that patch.

As for mara- they were already good- the thing is, fully geared ones already had noticed they got better with gear- problem was before 1.2 there weren't too many geared folks, so they seemed bad... that and they were a challenge to play well back then.

The patch just gave them so many goodies- reducing many rage costs, making it easier for them to get things off- ravage was already one of the top damaging abilities of all mara specs- making it no interrupt simply made it too strong, especially since it was the only ability one could interrupt on a mara (force choke you can but only on someone else). They can't have one interruptable ability- while we're stuck with a full library of them? Complete BS.

Frankly- the thing that often makes it hard to talk of mara balance is that they've long been a class of many good things rather than one or two really nice things- so for sorcs force lightning became a target since it was obvious, for mercs tracer missiles- nice things on their own, but when nerfed ended up showing just how weak the class is without- and for sorcs, how bad our pures are. Mara can tolerate any single nerf- and are buffed by small buffs to many things because they're so well rounded- that's what made them strong in 1.2.

Simply put Sorcs need a boost to damage or survivability (or both).

Damage:

Thundering Blast and Creeping Terror need boosts to make them worthy of the 31 point position.

Dots in general need to hit harder.

Lightning strike needs to do at least enough damage to make it worthy of a wrath proc.

Survivability:

Fix Corruption

Boost the bubble

Add some more effective control

We need damage, and lots of it, for our squishability we should be able to outdamage and outburst marauders. But Biofail hates sorcs so it will never, ever happen. Kiters? Don't make me laugh, everything is so biased towards melee, it's a joke.

It doesn't really matter what changes you do, it's clear that Bioware have no intention of giving sorcs a proper defensive cooldown or proper damage.

Just look at how hard death field crits for maybe 4kish, chain lightning might hit 5k with the forked lightning, but just look at the range of classes that can hit a full WH sorc for 5k+ with ease, juggernaut, marauder, powertech, operative, sniper, merc and of course our sin cousins never mind the loltardsmashers that get an AUTO-EFFIN-CRIT on the hardest hitting AOE and you know Biofail are off their rockers when they came up with this ****.

I rolled a pyro powertech and loving it. It's just hilarious watching people melt and the burst is great, all that lovely elemental damage. Heck I even get heavy armour too....

We need damage, and lots of it, for our squishability we should be able to outdamage and outburst marauders. But Biofail hates sorcs so it will never, ever happen. Kiters? Don't make me laugh, everything is so biased towards melee, it's a joke.

 

It doesn't really matter what changes you do, it's clear that Bioware have no intention of giving sorcs a proper defensive cooldown or proper damage.

 

Just look at how hard death field crits for maybe 4kish, chain lightning might hit 5k with the forked lightning, but just look at the range of classes that can hit a full WH sorc for 5k+ with ease, juggernaut, marauder, powertech, operative, sniper, merc and of course our sin cousins never mind the loltardsmashers that get an AUTO-EFFIN-CRIT on the hardest hitting AOE and you know Biofail are off their rockers when they came up with this ****.

 

I rolled a pyro powertech and loving it. It's just hilarious watching people melt and the burst is great, all that lovely elemental damage. Heck I even get heavy armour too....

Basically this- even if we could kite, which we can't because our snare lasts less than its CD and anything we want to kite can leap us on low CD- kiting isn't beneficial in this objective centric pvp that relies on killing fast. We also can't multi kite or distract for periods of time to be of use defending a node since we have nothing to handle CC or survive longer.

Our one supposed strength has no purpose, we lack ability in anything else- and the one thing going for us the stun bubble has been promised a nerf by BW already.

We know BW won't do anything about it unfortunately- they've done nothing in half a year, the loss of million+ subs didn't do a thing to spur them to action, they continue to nerf bad classes while buffing mara/juggs again with making smash ridiculous even as they're already FOTM top dog.

It would require a massive buff to this class to make it on even playing field with other classes, so many abilities need huge damage boosts and so many of our talent point changes (like root immunity in force speed, instant WW) should be baseline.

The problem is that a sorc healer who relys on mobility can' t move while healing....!!! If all heals would function while moving the sith inq would be a fun and helpfull class ( pvp )

Let me give you an example: You try to heal a target in BG... Suddenly 3 ppl start to gank you which means you stop healing and make a run for it to stay still again while trying to heal yourself up.... Meanwhile your ally is already, dead... If you had the ability to heal while walking you would be way more efficient and the game would be way more action orientated, like nearly every other mmo!!!

Pls Devs fix using abilities while moving ASAP !!!!!

The problem is that a sorc healer who relys on mobility can' t move while healing....!!! If all heals would function while moving the sith inq would be a fun and helpfull class ( pvp )

Let me give you an example: You try to heal a target in BG... Suddenly 3 ppl start to gank you which means you stop healing and make a run for it to stay still again while trying to heal yourself up.... Meanwhile your ally is already, dead... If you had the ability to heal while walking you would be way more efficient and the game would be way more action orientated, like nearly every other mmo!!!

Pls Devs fix using abilities while moving ASAP !!!!!

The problem is that a sorc healer who relys on mobility can' t move while healing....!!!

yes, but that also happens to be one the reasons operative healing is so OP, that an their spam at under 30% health nonsense.

When we had the instant DI mobility wasn't such a problem- every 6 seconds you could get an instant heal. Losing that alone killed our healing mobility and thus our survivability as healers or hybrids until the stun bubble came and made lightning hybrids the norm- problem is, they've said they're nerfing the stun bubble, and if past examples of BW nerfs to this class are any example, this nerf is going to to be heavy handed, unfair and offer us zilch in return.

Right now we simply are not being treated like other classes (except maybe mercs)- I mean, look at thundering blast. It does crap damage, it has an auto crit to it in a tree that you need high crit for already, and even with the auto crit is barely worth having.

It's a single target, 2 second cast, 9 second CD ability with a set up... that hits like a wet noodle- you can't even break 5k with it. Compare that to the center of the rage tree- an auto crit smash that crits for 7k, some people have seen up to 10k but I assume that's on pve geared folks- it regularly crits above 5k at the least though... and it's aoe, without much longer of a CD.

Why can't what should be our best lightning ability, that is single target and has a cast time- do the same damage if not more than an instant aoe?

Our burst damage is simply terrible, that needs a fix. Our healer mobility and survivability in general without the stun bubble is garbage- that needs a fix.

It's just disappointing that BW ignores us for over half a year- yet caters to every little thing marauders ask for, and are now planning to nerf us because marauders are whining about the stun bubble. I just don't get how they can be this one sided- it's absurd.

When 1.2 came around, we saw two things. The rise of many other classes, and the monumental crash of our own. Since then, we are a class that even other classes agree can't 1v1, we are a class optimized for a pvp game style that isn't part of this game. We finally caught a break when they gave us a lightning talent that allows us to stun with our static barrier- the bubble- but the minute marauders began to complain, BW promised them this would get a nerf.

 

Right now many players have returned for the f2p launch- to see what has changed, what is new, and most importantly- what BW has done to restore the faith of all the sorcs who quit following the 1.2 NGE patch that gutted the game. Needless to say- most aren't impressed they're coming back to yet another nerf aimed at appeasing the class currently doing best in pvp.

 

The stun bubble is already the subject of a long post- so I won't go much into something here that BW has already decided to nerf. I'll instead go over some things that, in return, might make the nerf manageable and stop making us a joke.

 

What makes a sorcerer poor for pvp?

 

Ultimately, many of us likely realize we're being targetted, locked down, smashed to bits nonstop every game- and those that have multiple characters see the difference right away, but where is the problem?

 

Many look at the end of a match and see, as a sorc, they aren't actually doing less healing or damage than other classes, yet as more and more games go by it becomes clearer and clearer you offer less as a sorc.

 

 

The problem isn't the overall sustained DPS. Sorcs are good at cheesing the end of match numbers- lots of dots, lots of aoe, and most importantly lots of slow damage and healing. What we don't have is the burst, and the pressure.

 

Consider if you've ever specced a healing sorc before- when almost any enemy starts to attack you, you have to move- look for LoS from snipers, or try to run from mara, juggs, sins and PTs. When a DPS sorc attacks you though- you do not. You don't worry about being locked out and killed, because you know there is no chance a sorc is going to kill you faster than you can heal up, or lock you down long enough to kill you.

 

There's two reasons- one, they lack the damage and the density of interrupts that allow that damage to outscale a healer's healing, while all those other classes easily have that ability. Two, sorcs give you no reason to move- other classes if you stand still you'll be obliterated, but against a DPS sorc you can stand still and heal, and it's like being batted by a wet noodle... having to move as a healer though means losing out on healing, so any other class simply has to keep pursuing you and you will die sooner or later.

 

To make it worse- classes like a marauder will keep you in place, while pounding you with interrupts. When we root another class it gives us a bit of time to move away- when we're rooted though, it gives other classes time to lock us down and lay on damage.

 

What can we do well though?

 

We can kite and wear down an enemy over a long period of time. Even so though- other classes have anti kiting tools of their own, so while a game like WoW has kiting classes that are fairly one sided- even kiting we don't have a significant advantage when force charge is on such a short CD, and our kiting abilities are not as good as they should be.

 

We can support. The stun bubble is a big part of this, giving us the ability to provide good CC for capping. Without it, we generally still have support tools for healing with a tank backing us up.

 

What can we not do that makes us in need of a fix?

 

We don't function in the WZ that exist in the same way others do. Now, with the bubble stun we temporarily had a function- to control people going for objectives in WZs- but when that is nerfed, we become very limited in usefulness.

 

Our lack of burst gives us almost no use on offense and in stopping enemy ball carriers. Simply put, we cannot down a healer defending a turret like others can, we cannot even handle non-healers because our strength is kiting- which takes time. That might be fine in some cases, but in this game you have a very small window of opportunity to kill all defenders and make a capture before they respawn- sorcs are not built for that. Worst, our best builds even further hurt our damage output since we almost must lightning hybrid to have any survivability.

 

As healers, we have some some defensive function- but, it is no different from any other healer, and we are as if not more reliant on having a tank support us. When targeted, no tank is going to do much to stop a pair or trio of high burst classes from tearing us to pieces. Ultimately, sustained is weak in pvp for a reason, and even weaker when objectives rely more heavily on burst in this game. We are simply poorly made for this game's pvp.

 

 

What to do about it?

 

We need to be brought in line with other classes. We cannot be inferior in defensive CDs, escapes, mobility and burst all at the same time- it doesn't work period, and it isn't working.

 

So, the main two things that ultimately need to be buffed for when they nerf the bubble stun are- output and mobility. We need to be able to put out damage numbers that can compare burstwise to other classes, and healing numbers that can reasonably keep someone being attacked alive- right now, healing not only is too easy to counter, but damage is so high you don't even need to for several classes. We also need to be able to have great mobility if our only survivable feature is our movement.

 

 

I think if these things can get a serious look at and a significant boost- we may see sorcs being contenders once again as they were pre-1.2. It will need to be significant though, because the nerf we got in 1.2 was massive.

 

Here are some suggestions for things that could achieve this.

Nice work. Way to take the time. Unfortunately, I am uncertain of how often Allison or any other dev actually checks the class forums. I think there are bigger things on their mind. I suppose they figure if someone doesnt like their class, they will just reroll ...... which keeps you paying that much longer. That being said ...........

I wouldnt mind if they put a cool down on affliction or removed some of the AOE potential from death field/force storm/CL and gave us some MAJOR upgrades on the damage of other casts ... this could increase the burst of our class while maintaining their metrics. Everyone knows we can match alot of classes in the damage column because of meaningless dots/aoe that noone even bothers to purge....

Also, if I were you, i would put this in the pvp forum as this is moreso a pvp related issue ..... it is more likely to be seen there.