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Can we please block players that we do not want to go up against?


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Just like ground pvp, /ignore only prevents players from being on your team, and to be honest, I'm not even sure it carries over into GSF.

 

A / command or personal list that blocked players from getting matches versus you is heavily exploitable. It would make it easy to grief people. This is a terrible suggestion.

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It's inherently an exploit to be able to block players that are better than you. Could you imagine the lunacy of a game that allowed that? All the players worse than you would block you, and you'd block all the players better than you. No one would ever get a game again.

 

Or worse, there would be a mafia of players who collude for wins together. Obviously, their top enemy would be any groups that could beat them, so their entire group would simply set up an ignore list. Given how matchmaking works, it wouldn't take much participation to effectively exclude anyone who has the ability to shoot down your GSF ship to never be able to play again.

 

This isn't just a bad idea, it's completely counter to the idea of a video game that runs on a server.

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Seriously... I think that is the only way to discourage those that *cough* dominate in unscrupulous ways. I watched a podcast today with a couple of the main guys at SWTOR, and they encouraged questions through the forums, so here is mine.

Thank you in advance!

 

So the only way this could work is if the person you're ignoring is in queue for a match, it auto opts you out of getting a game.

 

So for example if you have me on ignore, everything is normal for you until I queue. Once I queue up, you can no longer get a queue pop until I'm in a match or stop being in queue. This would work for multiple people you have on ignore, as long as one of them is in queue you wouldn't be able to get a match.

 

What you could also have is if a player you have on ignore is backfilled into a game you're already playing, you could have some sort of pop up notification that tells you this so you can immediately choose to leave the game and just take the loss.

 

This system would give you exactly what you're looking for, you'd never play with or vs the players you're trying to avoid.

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  • 4 weeks later...

6 games today same person 25+ kills under 5 death's. Runners up were only 9 kills max.

 

Everyone was wondering how and nobody can reproduce the anomaly. What we did get from him/her was "im in a stock fighter".

 

But yeah I would block people like this just to get into more balanced matches. I just got to remember to unblock them.

Edited by Dreildrag
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6 games today same person 25+ kills under 5 death's. Runners up were only 9 kills max.

 

Everyone was wondering how and nobody can reproduce the anomaly. What we did get from him/her was "im in a stock fighter".

 

But yeah I would block people like this just to get into more balanced matches. I just got to remember to unblock them.

 

First up that score is good, but still not amazing or anything. If you want to see how a player can accrue those kind of results you can simply head on over to my Youtube channel and check out the "solo queue" section.

 

Second how on earth do you guys think it's ok for you to block someone just because they play better then you do?

 

 

If you really did want this kind of feature it would have to be something like I posted above, where if the person that you blocked is playing you just aren't allowed to play.

Edited by Drakkolich
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First up that score is good, but still not amazing or anything. If you want to see how a player can accrue those kind of results you can simply head on over to my Youtube channel and check out the "solo queue" section.

 

Second how on earth do you guys think it's ok for you to block someone just because they play better then you do?

 

 

If you really did want this kind of feature it would have to be something like I posted above, where if the person that you blocked is playing you just aren't allowed to play.

 

If we have to block someone to get some fair matches while using training wheels we will! :) Just got to remember to unblock them when its over.

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If we have to block someone to get some fair matches while using training wheels we will! :) Just got to remember to unblock them when its over.

 

Why don't you just grab a few friends and go practice in custom matches if you just really want to practice in a "safe space" ?

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As far as I understood your main concern is having balaced matches?

Being able to block people from matches would definitely enable you to adjust the teams the matchmaker proposes.

But what would happen with this?

Let's take my char for an example:

I just checked my average stats after nearly 2000 games recently:

Kills ~5 Assissts ~8 Deaths ~2-3 (each per match)

These stats look average for 2000 games. especially since I have been flying a lot of T1 Bomber with seismic and interdiction. Not much kills and assissts there.

But depending on the opposition I had a game yesterday where I was K/D/A 23/0/9 or sth similar. If the blocking would be available ther probably would be around 14 people that would have blocked me. So as long as even one of them queues I would not be able to play. Out of my perspective that is sth really bad since that would destroy my free time activity since I mainly play GSF in my freetime...

Additionally it wouldn't really make things better. Due you have an idea how many people there are that can get 20+ kills in TDM? Well you can block everyone after identifying them manually. Have fun ;D

 

That aside yeah the matchmaker is really crapy from time to time. Yesterday for example we had a close game, good job matchmaker. Next game all the good people from the previous match are on the same team...

So sth like a better matching system would be good. I even can see people on ignore being not put in your match or on your team and friends preferably in your team as a preference. But only as a preferance, so that both parties have the chance to play this game.

 

On another node what I would favor would be if the matchmaker would look for similar strong teams with a better distinction. So that it can distinguish between how good people are, gives them a value and makes teams so that the teams have roughly a similar value. A lot of people have discussed about this already and there are several threads about "how the matchmaker could be better"

 

Edit:

Yeah if you have enough friends that want to fly (just for fun) going to the custom matches can definitely be worthwhile.

Though you need a few friends for that. Aside from that you can also avoid aces by adding them to your friendlist to see when they are in a game and only queue when they are in on or if they are offline. In general most of the aces only fly in the evening and morning / afternoon is normally a pretty good time to find other newer pilots.

Edited by Nightmaregale
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Also on the topic of this thread- if there was anything like this, it would be really bad.

 

First, if implemented as requested- you and enough people block me and my team, and we don't get to play- that's obviously crap, and only exists as a topic as a way to dodge games against players you won't win against (the fact that it's yet another contrived excuse to hope to trick a dev into soft-banning players that can beat you is also obvious). You clearly won't be blocking many players that you expect to beat.

 

Secondly, if implemented more logically- where you simply don't get pops if anyone on your blocklist is in queue- it only works ok if there's only one game going on, because at that point it equals "you don't get pops until the players you have blocked are done playing". The moment there are two or more games going, you are effectively dumping the harder competition, leaving players who don't know the list of players to "ban" (dodge) having to fight the same players. You don't deserve such largesse, not at my expense, not at the expense of random noobs, not in general.

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Firstly I don't know how good the usual opposition you fly with is so I can only estimate. But in my experience as long as there are no vet pilots around it is a walk in the park to get these stats. Every vet can attest to that.

 

Second as for the pilots accusing people of hacks: If you encounter someone in a game that does sth that you can't there are two answers someone can derive at, which depending on the personality of the pilot: a) he is just better than me b) he is hacking.

The second is especially true if the pilot has no idea what happened to him. In GSF that happens easily since the game is fast past and not really self explanatory in most regards. Just as a reference a firend I know is accusted of cheating regularly but I am really shure that he isn't cheating. Additionally a few years back I was flying with a talented newby from my guild against some aces. He was in a fight with said ace and shot down quickly. He immidiately said he was cheating without looking at it in depth.

And just like this we have the accusations. The higher the ego of the loosing pilot the likelier it is in my opinion.

 

On another note:

IF you have no idea what happend activate the combat log and use red's parser to see what happened to you and if it is possible. Please DO this efore accusing people of cheating.

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IF you have no idea what happend activate the combat log and use red's parser to see what happened to you and if it is possible. Please DO this before accusing people of cheating.

 

Far from the best parse I ever seen but slightly useful.

 

Verified someone can missile lock protons in about a second.

 

Several times I was slug sniped which could explain the 1 hit wonder pilots, they had help and I didn't know.

 

Need more data

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Far from the best parse I ever seen but slightly useful.

 

Verified someone can missile lock protons in about a second.

 

Several times I was slug sniped which could explain the 1 hit wonder pilots, they had help and I didn't know.

 

Need more data

 

The fastest you can lock a proton is 1.85 seconds

 

You can do this with an upgraded efficient targeting magazine, 1st upgrade on proton and in range of a sensor beacon.

 

-Audson

Edited by Erurainon
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i am practicing the art of Aikido in which u may reach a mental state where u are able to block out anyone u want, while physically u may see a name on the screen, they fail to be relevant to your spirit energy OR you may redirect the opponent's attack momentum via various types of throws and joint locks
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yeah i was trying to get into gsf but i really couldn't. I really enjoyed sf in battlefront 2 and when i heard swtor had a similar game mode i was actually looking forward to it. but im always playing against the same people, same sweaty premades, the difference in score is massive and its not fun, hell, its not fun even when u get these people who are good in your team, you just can't do anything and get carried. these people made me quit gsf, but i gotta admit i didnt see them for a while and when they weren't playing the games were challenging for everyone and fun, even while losing. sadly these people made me quit gsf
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  • 3 weeks later...

It is not really possible to create even matches. But most people if they are like me would like at least a tiny chance to win most every match. I can really only think of 1 premade that probably has a no challenge 100% win rate under every circumstance. Blocking players is quite drastic, too drastic probably. Perhaps if there was a limit of 3, and it would have to be legacy based. So if you ignore someone, one of your legacies three ignore slots is used, and you are blocking an entire legacy (not a character). But it seems silly to have to create a system to solve a single problem. Would be better if the top 4 players in the game would simply split the queues, but I guess that probably is not realistic. I cannot imagine a 100% win rate without breaking a sweat being fun, but that's just me.

 

A better solution perhaps would be for match-maker to give us a 20 v 4 in the case where the 4 haven't had a loss in 5 years or something....;-) I'm joking, how about if the 4 have a greater than 75% win rate in their last 20 matches. Because really, even numbered teams probably cannot ever fix that situation. And really, the 4 may still win 90% of the time (in DM), but I'd get my tiny percent chance to win....hehehe. In Sats maybe 6v18. Either way, I bet we can come up with better ideas than a /ignore list.

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The fastest you can lock a proton is 1.85 seconds

 

You can do this with an upgraded efficient targeting magazine, 1st upgrade on proton and in range of a sensor beacon.

 

-Audson

It's actually a lil bit faster.

Base time: 2.7 seconds

-%14 (from base total) for proton upgrade

-%10 (from base total) for Efficient Targeting

-0.25s when in friendly sensor beacon range.

2.7-(2.7*0.14)-(2.7*0.1)-0.25= 1.802s for minimum proton lock-on time.

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Seriously... I think that is the only way to discourage those that *cough* dominate in unscrupulous ways. I watched a podcast today with a couple of the main guys at SWTOR, and they encouraged questions through the forums, so here is mine.

Thank you in advance!

 

Imagine you join an 8-man ops group. You don't learn your rotation. You don't communicate with the other raiders. You don't learn the boss fights. You don't learn the routes through the maps. You don't even learn what your class or the other classes do. What are the odds, you think, of wiping before the first boss?

 

Then! Imagine consistently doing none of those things, and only occasionally attempting, then claim that you should only need to clear the trash mobs in order to clear the op.

 

^That's what your request sounds like.

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Imagine you join an 8-man ops group. You don't learn your rotation. You don't communicate with the other raiders. You don't learn the boss fights. You don't learn the routes through the maps. You don't even learn what your class or the other classes do. What are the odds, you think, of wiping before the first boss?

 

Then! Imagine consistently doing none of those things, and only occasionally attempting, then claim that you should only need to clear the trash mobs in order to clear the op.

 

^That's what your request sounds like.

 

Imagine tacking on a game mode, hear me out, to a game that trains you the basics of gameplay naturally, but not doing the same with a decent tutorial, you following(?), and when you try to get into playing said mode with said lack of experience, you get smashed repeatedly despite following the 'basics' you were shown! When matchmaking can't be dealt with due to a smaller population, these are the sort of complaints you'll see, but I'm sure the GSF community here aren't new to this. This is further exacerbated when aces fly together.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for being good at it and wanting to play together, but it's a clear issue and you'd have to be delusional to arrive at any other conclusion. Joining their groups to be carried every now and then, watching the youtube videos, spending hours of game time flying around aimlessly and reading up on the meta will not pull the dead weight that years of experience leaves on the table and this is made even worse with the lack of a flow of requisition to play around with builds and upgrades that OBJECTIVELY provide better results. Some nights, I even wish it were possible to make certain people disappear from the queues for a little while but I'm realistic about it.

 

And no, flying against people who demolish you before you understand what happened will not make you better.

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Imagine tacking on a game mode, hear me out, to a game that trains you the basics of gameplay naturally, but not doing the same with a decent tutorial, you following(?), and when you try to get into playing said mode with said lack of experience, you get smashed repeatedly despite following the 'basics' you were shown! When matchmaking can't be dealt with due to a smaller population, these are the sort of complaints you'll see, but I'm sure the GSF community here aren't new to this. This is further exacerbated when aces fly together.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for being good at it and wanting to play together, but it's a clear issue and you'd have to be delusional to arrive at any other conclusion. Joining their groups to be carried every now and then, watching the youtube videos, spending hours of game time flying around aimlessly and reading up on the meta will not pull the dead weight that years of experience leaves on the table and this is made even worse with the lack of a flow of requisition to play around with builds and upgrades that OBJECTIVELY provide better results. Some nights, I even wish it were possible to make certain people disappear from the queues for a little while but I'm realistic about it.

 

And no, flying against people who demolish you before you understand what happened will not make you better.

 

After a month of flying with people that (still can) demolish me and listening to their tips, I was topping boards. Your point doesn't address even half of what I brought up. People don't rely on the in-game for their rotation, they look up guides. Same with all aspects of operations.

If you think the point of joining good players is just to be carried then you're missing the point. The people who claim it's bored to be carried are right, it is, but that is an environment where one can learn to pull their weight. When one is DOING the carrying it's definitely less boring.

There's this hopeless attitude that just learning can't beat years of experience. Maybe not a full seasoned 4-man, yet, but 1v1 or 2v2 is a very achievable reality with only maybe a month's practise and short education on the meta.

This became apparent to me when flying in a 2-man with another player who started receiving pro instruction around the same time as I. There was a well-known ace flying solo on the other side. Map was Denon Dom. Just having the coordination and knowing the meta, we were able to keep ahead of the enemy ace in caps, and won the races to recap on trades. Scrubs with a bit of practice and knowledge could shut down an ace, without an ace directing them on their side.

In short while our group was wrecking the queue, but we figured if it didn't take us that long to become moderately proficient (compared to vet aces), then maybe with a small push on the community the general skill level of our server would rise. So far it has. I'm seeing randoms bringing out T3 strikes and emp fields to shutdown piledrivers. More scouts in dom matches. It's much harder to crack 30 kills in a TDM, and is happening far less often. Group v. group with solo backfills (half to 66% of the team) is more common.

^I think there is a very good case that this is more beneficial to solo q'rs as well^

It gives the attentive solo q'r a solid team foundation to rely when selecting their play. It also means the solo q'r is less likely to be pressured to carry. While very skilled solo q'rs willed probably have lower stats with this type of composition, green solo'rs will enjoy more freedom to explore their ability in GSF.

^^This reason also seems to be why it's primarily skilled solo q'rs complaining "on behalf" of less skilled players about groups. ^^

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-snip-

 

None of that disproved what I said. Being demolished isn't fun. Being demolished without having a chance to react is not fun. Yes, the game does teach you basics and you can read the basics in the description of abilities, actives and passives. You do NOT always need guides to learn the base game but it helps and is recommended. Joining 'good' players accomplishes nothing for the newb as they still are in the tub struggling to stay afloat while the 'good' players do all the work. Some are helpful with answering questions but game sense pales in comparison to actual mechanical skill and upgrades. Or does being in group with them suddenly make me play better or earn req faster for upgrades?

 

A month of however long of practice is NOT enough to fly against the people I fly against. It shouldn't even take that long to be competitive. Your anecdote is just that while the very real situation of GSF is that it discouraged most people from ever returning and that's for a reason. Randoms on your team could easily be the alts of experienced flyers as well and you know that. It's still a well designed minigame but has terrible incentives, a barebones tutorial and understandably small community leftover from a larger one that withered away because the bad outweighed the good.

 

No one wants to be herded into the mode for a reward that benefits them outside of it to be slaughtered for a good while in the hopes of getting good eventually. It's common sense. I sympathize with OP though it's not reasonable. You know if GSF was removed from conquest and Ossus weekly, it would go the way of Uprisings like it once did across multiple servers.

Edited by DarthCasus
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>"None of that disproved what I said."

>"Joining 'good' players does nothing for the newbs."

Are you illiterate? Because your response sounds like you struggle with basic reading comprehension. Go back, try again. Words can be tricky.

 

No, you don't get magically better. It's just like with any instruction. Be humble, be patient, and actually DO what you're told. If your response to pro advice "well thanks, I think I'm going to keep doing it this way though, that's 'my style,'" or whatever, then you won't improve at all. The point is that what you're currently doing isn't getting you W's and you need to change.

 

No one is herded in to GSF anymore than any other game mode. I don't see people complaining about being "herded into ops" when they don't have raid groups. Or "herded into" anything. Tired of this complaint from entitled ground players. I've been rudely chewed out for not knowing whatever strats for an op boss. Been hard and soft-kicked from raid groups and no one would teach me. That doesn't happen to me in GSF. Maybe if we mercilessly tore the ground players apart for their stupidity in the sky they'd shut up with this stupid complaint. I have no interest in helping some whiner who is only in q to get their crystal, and has no interest in actually playing. Get out of q. The game is for the people who play it. I want people to play, but I don't want people doing this^. And if that's you, you get no sympathy from me. Get rekt.

 

As far as 'we could've had pro alts on our side,' we didn't but for the sake of argument let's say we did. The named pro on the other side was still the superior individual pilot, and it was still winning the races to the says that won the game.

Additionally, being in the GSF and GSF Groupfinder discords will let you know the status of a whole bunch of aces at once.

 

As far as a month being not enough, you're wrong. Just so very wrong and talking completely out of your bottom. I've been present for, and helped train myself even, other pilots after me. While everyone is a little different; on average after about a month of instruction and practise a new pilot starts getting accused of hacking :p just popping in once to chat or q with an ace and then not talking to them again for like two weeks isn't going to cut it tho. That schedule involves logging like 3 times a week.

 

No one likes a whiner who refuses to learn. Or read.

 

Like simple stuff: you say newbs are all confused about dying so quickly. Literally a two minute conversation with a pro will clear up exactly how they're dying to what ship. THAT is something grouping with a pro will make you better at, immediately. One new guy asked about one-hit kills. Learned it actually was a legit thing, then better understood Los and defensive flying. He took that info back to his guild, now all of them know how to counter piledriving and avoid slugs with DO. It's like you're struggling with the basic concept of education, this is how it works buddy.

 

Not to mention you can see what their ship builds are (the aces), what they're flying to get 30+ kills. They'll tell you what you should be doing with what ship and when. Clarity and certainty do wonders for new pilots.

 

No one likes a game mode that is so easy you can compete from the get-go and doesn't reward knowledge nor skill. It's like you've never played a pvp game before in your life.

Maybe you haven't! In that case, it's pretty standard fare to die a bunch when you start out before getting good: A la CoD, a la Halo, a la TF2, a la counterstrike, a la Battlefront etc.

 

If you're expecting to waltz into a new pvp game with no instruction and have competitive scores with vet players, in any game, you're delusional.

And just like in any game, learning how it works from people who are better makes you better, if you can humble yourself enough to learn.

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Joining 'good' players accomplishes nothing for the newb as they still are in the tub struggling to stay afloat while the 'good' players do all the work. Some are helpful with answering questions but game sense pales in comparison to actual mechanical skill and upgrades. Or does being in group with them suddenly make me play better or earn req faster for upgrades?

 

When players join up with good players with the intention of learning how to become better they learn so much so fast. I'm constantly answering their questions, while simultaneously providing feedback to their flying. For example I might see them die while being very overextended and can provide immediate feedback on that, or maybe they're using the wrong ship for a certain situation. Simply joining good players in a group and playing games to get carried, I absolutely agree with you helps very little, it's the getting in voice chat having access to all your questions answered in real time and discussing builds and strategies that helps tremendously.

 

As far as mechanical skill and upgrades these also improve with a mentor speaking directly to you while flying. A big example to this is just 2 nights ago, I was flying with someone that asked very simply how on earth do you guys track people so well, I have a hard time keeping my reticule lined up and I went through a few things that could be hampering is ability to stay on target, after a few minutes we found out he didn't know that Pitching compared to Yawing makes you turn a lot faster and because he was turning so much slower then his enemies you just couldn't aim properly.

 

To answer if being grouped with good players make you earn req faster for upgrades, I have to blatantly yell OFCOURSE IT DOES. If you're winning more games you're earning more req, on top of that good players know how req is distributed and can explain to you what things you should be doing if your goal is to earn as much as possible. On top of the fact they can help you spend it more efficiently to gain the most power for your ship in the shortest time.

 

 

A month of however long of practice is NOT enough to fly against the people I fly against. It shouldn't even take that long to be competitive. Your anecdote is just that while the very real situation of GSF is that it discouraged most people from ever returning and that's for a reason.

 

First up you're right you can't bridge the gap of 5 years of practice in a month, you can however improve a ridiculous amount. (Proud of you Gadikat, you've come so far in the last month)

 

The fact that you think it shouldn't take that long to be competitive is kind of a big red flag to me here. Do you think you should be able to earn the experience of someone that has played 1000's of matches in a month or do you mean requisition wise? Because it is very easy now to master literally every single ship in a month.

 

GSF is hard, and very different from the regular game, and I completely agree with the fact that the tutorial has needed a revamp for a very long time. However Bioware did give us an amazing teaching tool last year that has helped so much! The ability to create custom games with just a few friends let's you finally explore the GSF space without the pressure of being in an actual pvp game. This lets you test all sorts of things, learn the maps and just practice flying with friends. It's also an AMAZING teaching tool, I can't tell you how many players have learned so much in so little time using it.

 

 

I'm sorry I can't touch on the ground game stuff, because well I don't play it, I only play Swtor for GSF because I love it.

 

Anyways just wanted to hop in here and maybe clear up some confusion in the discussion, I hope that helps. :)

Edited by Drakkolich
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First up you're right you can't bridge the gap of 5 years of practice in a month, you can however improve a ridiculous amount. (Proud of you Gadikat, you've come so far in the last month)

 

My point wasn't that you can make up the difference. I still can't touch any single player on your squad (but ty). My point was that it's enough to become proficient enough that you can have a shot at carrying a match with regs, which is more than enough to prevent a match from becoming a blowout.

It also gives a pilot some knowledge when they see an ace on the other side. While they might be more sklled, at least a pilot can get the knowledge for a sensible counter to that ace's ship/strat. It's something, as opposed to getting piledriven, or slice/emp-torp'd, or ion-slug'd. Just having an idea of what to do against those ships/pilots can help.

Edited by Gadikat
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