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Strike Fighters = Unbeatable?


Berronaxftw

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Hardly ever touched GSF before, but now there's weekly quests for it and bonuses regularly I decided it was a decent time to try.

 

And my god is it an absolute clusterdump

 

Decided i'd play bomber because on sheet they looked like the best thing for defending objectives.

 

Start playing and find I get killed in a single second by strike fighters, ask for advice in group chat and one of em says "its just because your ship isn't upgraded"

 

Well now my ship is fully upgraded and strike fighters kill me in 4 seconds instead of 1, what a huge difference!

 

Doesn't matter how much I try to weave through things to evade missile locks I always get insta punked, I just can't get them off me, and when i'm chasing one they seem to be able to turn faster 10,000 meters away at full speed than I can on the spot.

 

And on the rare occasion I can get on them and start doing damage, I barely scratch their shields nvm get anywhere close to a kill, even when I try and set up a sort of trap full of mines and drones in some sort of tunnel/passage way, they fly through and punk me as if I put nothing there, they just take no damage and destroy all my stuff and I have to wait an entire MINUTE before I can place it again.

 

Tried scouts and gunships too and its the same story, just get dunked.

 

What the hell am I doing wrong?

 

Or are strike fighters just that OP? seems to me like there's literally no point in playing anything but a strike fighter, and if that's the case that sucks.

Edited by Berronaxftw
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If a strike is taking you down that fast I am guessing it is players using the primary weapon swap 'method' on the Rycer and whatever the pub version is.

 

I doubt it is intended to be used the way it is being used, but I do not think the devs will fix it anytime soon. All they would have to do is lengthen the cool down a little bit.

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Strikes are definitely a good ship class. Personally I would recommend everyone to start in one.

Bombers are surely good at defending, I can attest to that.

Also GSF is a very fast paced game so dying fast and in moments after a bad decision is also kind of normal and it happens to the best of us.

 

But now to the point: Strikes aren't unbeatable!

 

In comparison to a bomber the have less hull, more shields and better turning. Which makes them more offensive since they also have good weapons. (especially the build DarthTyranid mentioned can burst a lot of damage)

Just out of curiosity was it always the same person which you can't evade from?

 

But how to tackle this problem:

 

1) As a bomber: your choice of weapon is important in this case. Stuff like seekers will help little. Also a direct head on blaster battle will leave you outgunned. WHich leaves you the bombers speciallity their mines and drones. Railgun sentry drone is good due to shield piercing, same as Interdiction drone and mine due to the slow and also partially seismic. (Interdiction mine + seismic can snare the target)

Important is the evading so the mines can work. This can be difficult and hard to learn. Sadly the simple circling the satelite is not good enough. In general the more eratic the better. You can handle them this way in theory but it takes time to whittle them down.

 

2) As a Gunship: This is actually pretty easysince gunships also pack loads of damage. Though you need to keep distcance and fully charge those shots and hit them. Ion really takes a punch on them with the energy drain. The weapon drain is especially annoying for the Rycer / starguard. The engine drain is also always annoying. In combo with slug railgun you can wreack a lot of havoc on strikes.

 

3) As a Scout: The T2S still has a lot of attack potential though it is hard to use, but with scouts in general you can win turn wars against strikes. (Assuming you don't boost too much in turning battles) The T1S can also limit the strike with locking it's missile break and System swap.

 

Well you also could play as a strike too and do the things to them that they do to you.

 

In general Shield piercing stuff and torpedoes are always a good bet these days.

 

I hope that helped a bit ^^

 

Just out of curiosity which server are we talking about?

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to counter strikes i usually use either GS or tier 3 strike. maxed slug cannon on mangler/quarrel is a 2 hit kill almost 100% of the time on any strike if fully charged unless they are running damage reduction, in which case its a 3 hit kill.

my strategy against a good strike team is hang back (in a gs you should be anyway) and wait for team mates to either strip half their shield or about 1/4 of their health, then usually its a 1 hit kill. also run burst cannons as alot of the good strikes will try to rush you up close, and with evasion maxed and wingman boosting your blc accuracy you can literally melt them within 3000 meters

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to counter strikes i usually use either GS or tier 3 strike. maxed slug cannon on mangler/quarrel is a 2 hit kill almost 100% of the time on any strike if fully charged unless they are running damage reduction, in which case its a 3 hit kill.

 

Just a quick note on your amount of Shots it takes to kill a Strike with Slug. If you're using Slug Railgun and it's upgraded it has 100% Armor Penetration, which means you completely ignore your targets Damage Reduction stat. So the reason you're adding more shots to kill a Strike isn't because of Damage Reduction it's because they either have more shields or hull.

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With a Bomber you NEVER partake in dog-fights or fly around in open space... you find a relatively safe and enclosed position somewhere in the middle of the map if Deathmatch, or safely nested under a satelite if Domination, entrench and spam your drones / mines and stay put... sometimes you get to pick some stragglers already beaten up by other players and finish them with your primaries, but that s about it...

You die because you seem to try to take on strikers 1 on 1 and a bomber doesn t do that.... you hunker down in some debris and wait... usually your teams snipers will position closely around you since it s the safest place for them... with a repair drone and seeker / sentry drones...

you ll drown in repair and assist MVPs at the end of the match, no direct kill ( maybe 1 or 2) but around 10 assist per match... also with a well nested bomber under a satelite it can mean the almost sure win in domination. Capture a satelite and place a bomber under it with a sniper maybe guarding from a distance and the satelite is yours till the end of the match.

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With a Bomber you NEVER partake in dog-fights or fly around in open space... you find a relatively safe and enclosed position somewhere in the middle of the map if Deathmatch, or safely nested under a satelite if Domination, entrench and spam your drones / mines and stay put... sometimes you get to pick some stragglers already beaten up by other players and finish them with your primaries, but that s about it...

You die because you seem to try to take on strikers 1 on 1 and a bomber doesn t do that.... you hunker down in some debris and wait... usually your teams snipers will position closely around you since it s the safest place for them... with a repair drone and seeker / sentry drones...

you ll drown in repair and assist MVPs at the end of the match, no direct kill ( maybe 1 or 2) but around 10 assist per match... also with a well nested bomber under a satelite it can mean the almost sure win in domination. Capture a satelite and place a bomber under it with a sniper maybe guarding from a distance and the satelite is yours till the end of the match.

 

Sounds to me like your describing a tick bomber. Those are slaughtered by veteran pilots fairly easily. The only ones they do well against are a team of new players. Some of the best bomber pilots I've seen flew all around/over/under the sats in a unpredictable way when the enemy is attacking the sat, not just sitting there.

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seems to me like there's literally no point in playing anything but a strike fighter

 

There's plenty of reason to play most of the ships in most of the game types (and some of the ships in every game type). Generally, I always recommend this: if you think a ship is really underpowered, you need to play until you see someone doing well in that ship. But if you think a ship is overpowered, the test is much easier: go run a bunch of games as a bunch of strikes.

 

Based on your description of the bomber, I'm going to assume that your initial feeling will be that a strike is a better version of a bomber. This is probably because you are probably playing the bomber similar to how a strike should be played. Once you are comfortable in your strike, go hunt bombers. You'll probably find that some of them are much harder to hunt than others. Be sure to not write off the other ships in this analysis! If you go hunting a bomber, and every time you do so, some enemy scout comes and peels you (or outright destroys you), that's still a good test- the bomber is positioned such that his team is defending him. Maybe it's a good nest, maybe he's playing with a good group.

 

You also mention that scouts and gunships also felt really weak. This is definitely not the case! On your strike, focus on peeling scouts, and try to deroost gunships. Also try to actually go for the kill. Notice that some fold immediately, and others are extremely evasive, or are good at dogfighting you or even intercepting your initial dive into their territory. From the matches you get versus good pilots on these ships, you should probably learn more about how to actually play as them against a strike.

 

In solo play, I suggest this as a bomber:

1)- Begin by telling your teammates where you will be at first.

2)- If you are on a domination match, consider running a type 1 bomber. If you are on team deathmatch, consider running a type 2 bomber. In domination, you will want to place your beacon somewhere that it won't be hunted down. Often, this means that it is on your side of the map, but from a position that requires an enemy to cross into your territory and curve around to kill the beacon. They can and will do this, but it will leave them much more open to any of your allies that want to defend the beacon. If no one cares about defending the beacon, well, it's gonna die. On TDM, give a location for your ammo drone, and try to spread out your defenses enough so that a single aoe doesn't completely wipe everything out. Position yourself such that most enemies have to run across your drones. Railgun drones should not be in a full free-fire position unless you are camping their spawn- normally you should have these tucked away with about half a sphere to a quarter of a sphere of angle that they can attack. Interdiction drones can be packed much tighter, and enemy ships should have to choose between you, the repair drone, and the interdiction drones. If they choose you, kite, ideally by boosting past them. If they choose anything else, hit them with every laser you can and make them pay for hurting your tiny robot children.

3)- Do not attempt to dogfight strikes. Or anything. Even though your maneuverability isn't that bad compared to a gunship, they can pull full stops and often have good access to front guns. Strikes can outmaneuver you, and scouts will eat you alive without deployables. Do not ever make yourself available at midrange to a strike, or attempt to joust.

4)- Bombers are fundamentally support ships (at least the type 1 and type 2 bombers are). This means if your team is not great, you will not be supporting anything useful. If both teams are good- even if your team is worse (aka, you are up against really good pilots, but your team can aim, defend nests, etc.), your time will not be wasted in that bomber.

 

Bombers are the farthest from the GSF norm, so I get why you'd think they are strictly worse than strikes. But scouts and gunships are both really solid- I think you should play strike and see what strategies these ships do against you.

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  • 5 weeks later...

oh my lord ur image is the same as Drakolichs thought i was having a stroke until i read the name

 

 

it was already covered by aforeformerlymentioned Drakolich and other entitiies but i will tell u one thing. its not the strike fighters that are overpowered its the proton torpedo. its an easy win button vs noobs and it also keeps an ace honest BUT if the ace picks a strike fighter too then he doesnt need 2 play on edge bc he can get hit and not quit.

 

long story short TBH u gotta ask yourself what came first the chicken or the protorp? if u can master a gunsheep or scout then u'll be better off in that ship some games but u can just pick strike fighter and be SAFE IN EVERY MODE AND EVERY GAME. Its the easy way out my friend but true peak skill is in the other ships (not bombbers). good night.

Edited by Krixarcs
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I can only speak from the perspective of a T2 Scout since that's literally all I play (well, I'm working on a Clarion and a Pike, but I still play Scout 99%), but IMO Scouts have the hardest time against Strikes, particularly Strikes using Quick-Charge Shields and Proton Torpedos. Protons have ridiculous range and will one-shot any Scout that isn't running Reinforced Armor, and Quick-Charge shields are very hard to crack without prolonged burst damage, such as Bursts and Pods, or, my preferred loadout, Rapids and Pods. Directional users are also quite hardy as, though they lack regen, they have huge shield pools and can swap between them, virtually doubling their survivability in a dogfight.

 

Scouts, particularly Burst or Rapid scouts running double Turning, can typically out-turn a T1 or T2 Strike in a dogfight, especially ones that rely on ranged lasers like Heavy or Quads, because they have a low firing arc and big tracking penalties. But if you find that you cannot take the Strike down, either because you lack the firepower or because you're being flanked by another bogey, and you need to flee, you need to make that decision earlier rather than later, because any Strike worth its salt will fish you down if you decide to turn tail and thread you with a Proton. Save your D-field for if and when you need to make a getaway (unless you are directly heads up with a Strike in a joust), and if a Strike decides to flee from you towards the safety of numbers, don't pursue it, regroup with your team and wait for a more favorable situation.

 

Scouts are opportunists, and Bombers and Gunships are usually better targets for them, easier to ambush. Worst case scenario if you don't outright kill them, you at least flush them out into the open for your Gunships to pick off. I try to avoid Strikes at all costs unless I see they are busy engaging another teammate, then I will try to flank them and, if I can't kill them, at least peel them off my teammates. But it's rare that I win a heads-up clash with a Strike as a Scout main. Their defenses and the missiles they wield just make them too dangerous to engage as a Scout.

Edited by Loadsamonie
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What is really unbeatable is teamwork. A mixture of ship capabilities working together is the hardest to deal with.

 

I'm not a bomber specialist and not an especially good evasive bomber pilot but I do use them occasionally. I still solo queue most of the time and when I started I always took concussion and seismic when I flew that type of bomber, because that was the best way to kill attacking scouts without any help. When I had some chances to play with a group on voice they wanted me to switch to interdiction mines. If I had help from teammates interdiction mines made it easier for teammates to kill attackers. They also preferred I use interdiction drone instead of railgun drone on that type of bomber for the same reason.

 

Hyperspace beacons are extremely useful in domination, try to put it close to sats but with a some cover. On the Denon map some coordinated groups will have a bomber delay spawning until another bomber has placed a beacon halfway to B, then spawn with a full engine power pool and get to B faster.

 

A lone bomber can be defeated, especially by 2 attackers that make it harder for bombers to los both attackers. But if teammates are helping the bomber the attackers need a lot more attackers, or those attackers have to be way better than the defenders. A gunship at range behind the sat can stay out of range of enemy gunships and shoot any scouts or strikes that come after the bomber. A scout or strike teammate has an easier time dogfighting around a sat if the enemy has to watch out for mines. They can also go after enemy gunships trying to get good position, or try to intercept enemy bombers in open space. Protorps are a big reason bombers can be in big trouble in open space.

 

While voice makes it easier, even without it a bit of common sense on the part of players should enable them to see when they should be helping defend sats.

 

The formula for winning domination is simple, if you can ever get the middle sat and one of the others. Once you have 2 sats, put a bomber on each one, then most of the rest of the team should be a mobile force moving between the 2 sats as needed. The 3rd sat should be probed a bit to keep them honest, but never attacked in strength at the expense of holding the other 2.

 

Never leave a sat undefended, unless you need to take another sat so quickly to have a chance that you have to take a risk. I have seen a group of ships rush away from a recently taken sat and rush to the next sat, leaving the newly taken sat undefended. A good player can knock out all 3 turrets and start capping an undefended sat in about 10 seconds. Even 1 defender can usually slow attackers down long enough for help to come if teammates are paying attention. That's why bombers should always take communication sensors.

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  • 6 months later...

I guess May to December is not the silliest of necros. At least it is like the same year and all.

 

War Thunder is decently more realistic than GSF, and what it simulates is pretty different. You can turn altitude into advantages there, etc.

 

An interesting idea and all, but there were probably several reasons why it wasn't in the cards.

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Sounds to me like your describing a tick bomber. Those are slaughtered by veteran pilots fairly easily. The only ones they do well against are a team of new players. Some of the best bomber pilots I've seen flew all around/over/under the sats in a unpredictable way when the enemy is attacking the sat, not just sitting there.

 

Exactly it. Most people don't build their strikes for turning. Random unpredictable turns will give even great pilots trouble staying on you. Your only real threat will be clarion/imperiums built specifically for bomber busting because they have the turning to keep up easier and tankiness to take a mine hit or three. And not many people run those. A good flashfire/sting could be a problem but with them it's a race. Either they kill you quick or they take two mine hits and either die or have to back off.

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Honestly if they just copied WarThunder flying system it would work milion times better SF are weird as **** and extremly incoinsistent half of features it has are practicaly useless and all it has is warhead meta

 

Except that GSF is like World of Tanks.

 

Tank destroyers/Pre nerf Artillery = Gunships.

 

hehehe

Edited by ForfiniteStories
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It certainly seems like it at times. I'm a T2 Scout main and a Rapids user and I have a really hard time getting through the shields of a Strike sometimes. A Strike running Quick-Charge Shields can be a very tough nut to crack, surprising given the raw firepower a Flashfire/Sting can put out. Worse, Protons have ridiculous range and can one-shot a Scout that isn't using Reinforced Armor. It's partially because of that I run Hydro Spanner now, mainly as a self heal so I don't need to rely on bombers, but also because I can use it to just barely survive the DoT after a Proton hits.

 

They're not unbeatable, but they're certainly much tougher than they once were, and so as a Scout I generally try to avoid them unless I see a teammate engaging one and I can safely assist against it. Otherwise I tend to stay away from them and go after Gunships instead.

Edited by Loadsamonie
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It certainly seems like it at times. I'm a T2 Scout main and a Rapids user and I have a really hard time getting through the shields of a Strike sometimes. A Strike running Quick-Charge Shields can be a very tough nut to crack, surprising given the raw firepower a Flashfire/Sting can put out. Worse, Protons have ridiculous range and can one-shot a Scout that isn't using Reinforced Armor. It's partially because of that I run Hydro Spanner now, mainly as a self heal so I don't need to rely on bombers, but also because I can use it to just barely survive the DoT after a Proton hits.

 

They're not unbeatable, but they're certainly much tougher than they once were, and so as a Scout I generally try to avoid them unless I see a teammate engaging one and I can safely assist against it. Otherwise I tend to stay away from them and go after Gunships instead.

 

If your using a T2 scout, I'd highly suggest you try Burst laser cannons instead of Rapid fire lasers. While Rapids have gotten buffed they really don't do that well Vs a target that flies evasively.

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If your using a T2 scout, I'd highly suggest you try Burst laser cannons instead of Rapid fire lasers. While Rapids have gotten buffed they really don't do that well Vs a target that flies evasively.

 

I know Bursts are statistically superior, but I tend to perform better with Rapids. I get more consistent results with them, especially since I run Clusters and not Pods. I also have far less weapon power issues with Rapids, so much so that I can comfortably use Frequency Capacitor and Blizz and not have any problems.

 

It's only because they were buffed though. If they didn't have Ignore Armor I wouldn't use them. But mainly my T2 Scout is Rapids/Clusters/TT for Dogfighting, while my T1 Scout is Lights/Pods/EMP and mostly for Jousting and sometimes attacking satellites.

 

I'm thinking of switching it up though, going Rapids/Pods and either EMP or TT on T1 Scout, and then Bursts/Clusters/TT on T2 Scout.

Edited by Loadsamonie
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It certainly seems like it at times. I'm a T2 Scout main and a Rapids user and I have a really hard time getting through the shields of a Strike sometimes.

 

Does this sound like something that should be really good versus a strike? Rapid fire laser is not an amazing dps gun, and requires you to stay on target quite tightly. It's strengths are:

+Decent ability to land a minor hit when chasing around corners, hurting shield regeneration

+Low cost to fire

+ignores armor (hull damage reduction needs nothing to this gun)

+good dps for a stationary target undernose

For this reason, it's rather strong at chasing bombers around nodes, but should it be nearly as good at strikes as it is at bombers?

Note that quick charge shield explicitly negates the top advantage- shield regeneration. The weapon has no access to shield piercing, a solid pick versus strikes. It has no access to instantaneous burst (that would be burst laser cannon), nor extreme dps (that would be light laser cannon)

 

For years, RFL was a meme-gun, a joke. Now, it's a good gun. I run it if I expect to see armor on a node. But I do not recommend it on type 2 scout. Consider Light Laser Cannon or Burst Laser Cannon, if your gripe is not being good against strike fighters.

 

A Strike running Quick-Charge Shields can be a very tough nut to crack, surprising given the raw firepower a Flashfire/Sting can put out.

 

Everyone praising the raw dps of a flashfire is assuming said flashfire is not running RFL.

 

I also have far less weapon power issues with Rapids, so much so that I can comfortably use Frequency Capacitor and Blizz and not have any problems

 

I don't feel "Why does not Frequency Capacitor, the largest capacitor, not simply eat the other capacitors?" is a good approach here. You shouldn't feel the need to run a specific capacitor and let that influence your weapon choice- rather, you should select your weapon, and then choose the capacitor you are pretty sure is best for you there. For burst laser cannon, this really shouldn't be frequency capacitor (it should be range or damage). For rapid fire laser, frequency is a risky pick- you get that raw multiplicative 15% fire rate (versus the 10% damage being added in additively with something), but each individual rapid his is so damned small. Consider light laser as well, of course- burst laser canon and rapid fire laser literally could not be further apart.

 

Worse, Protons have ridiculous range and can one-shot a Scout that isn't using Reinforced Armor.

Or hydro spanner, as you go into. Generally, a scout needs to be willing to sacrifice either top tier railgun defense (lightweight armor) or offense (copilot) to be able to tank a proton. Note that the scout still has access to a 2 and a 3 button that break missiles.

The real problem here shouldn't be actually getting hammered with protons an unreasonable amount (fly more defensively if that is happening), the real issue should be the effects of being forced to fly defensively.

 

They're not unbeatable, but they're certainly much tougher than they once were, and so as a Scout I generally try to avoid them unless I see a teammate engaging one and I can safely assist against it. Otherwise I tend to stay away from them and go after Gunships instead.

 

I think this is a pretty fine call, for two reasons. First, a scout on a gunship usually deroosts it much faster, and will frequently kill it much faster, than any other thing you can bring to bear upon it. Second, a scout remains solid at swapping to a second target, and remains solid at flying defensively: you can have several dps strikes uselessly pursuing you on a scout. They will peel you, but they will have a harder time killing you.

 

I'm thinking of switching it up though, going Rapids/Pods and either EMP or TT on T1 Scout, and then Bursts/Clusters/TT on T2 Scout.

 

This sounds pretty solid- in this case, each of your scouts is becoming more focused on a given situation. You'll probably like the results of this, is my guess.

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The only thing to consider then is what works better for Bursts, 16% extra Hull Damage, or 18% extra Shield Damage. I use Shield Piercing on Bursts as well.

 

Even with BLC's though, I still have a hard time engaging Strikes. I can take them one on one in a turn-heavy dogfight, but if I decide to play chicken and go heads up against one, I lose every time.

Edited by Loadsamonie
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Even with BLC's though, I still have a hard time engaging Strikes. I can take them one on one in a turn-heavy dogfight, but if I decide to play chicken and go heads up against one, I lose every time.

 

I mean, the strike fighter is the "space tank" of the game. If you engage him at his strength- staying underneath his nose and comparing hull, shield, and static dps numbers- at medium and short range- you'd expect to have a terrible time as a scout. But yea, you can still out turn them and stuff.

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