Just a question here because this really annoyed me when it happened. If the best pve gear you can get is from the ultimate gear vendors on the fleet, and you can only get ultimate commendations from HM Flashpoints, why do people leave in HM flashpoint because of 1 death, looking at another player gear, telling them they have bad gear (when its the best you can get for pve when just hitting 60) and then quitting?

I don't understand this at all, are some people just like this? Because I know its perfectly possible to finish all HM flashpoints without the ultimate vendor gear, because me and a friend did that before we really knew about ultimate gear.

Is this just something I have to deal with?

Sorry if this seems like a weird forum but I needed to vent my frustration, and ask if anyone else has had someone say this to them then block them just for this. Because it offended me so much I'm thinking of stopping playing as soon as I hit 60 on a character if this is what endgame players do.

Just a question here because this really annoyed me when it happened. If the best pve gear you can get is from the ultimate gear vendors on the fleet, and you can only get ultimate commendations from HM Flashpoints, why do people leave in HM flashpoint because of 1 death, looking at another player gear, telling them they have bad gear (when its the best you can get for pve when just hitting 60) and then quitting?

I don't understand this at all, are some people just like this? Because I know its perfectly possible to finish all HM flashpoints without the ultimate vendor gear, because me and a friend did that before we really knew about ultimate gear.

Is this just something I have to deal with?

Sorry if this seems like a weird forum but I needed to vent my frustration, and ask if anyone else has had someone say this to them then block them just for this. Because it offended me so much I'm thinking of stopping playing as soon as I hit 60 on a character if this is what endgame players do.

What level gear do you have? The reason people were probably quitting is because it is very easy to get 190 gear from Ziost, so there is basically no reason to walk into a FP without at least 190 for most things, and then you can buy the remainder with Basic comms (which when you hit 60, you should have 100s of them), which are 186s. If people left even when you have all 190s and 186s, then I'm a little surprised, but I'm guessing it's more you have mostly 176s with a few 168s in there, and maybe only 1 relic or something like that.

The people that say things like that in hard mode flashpoints typically are those who heard someone say it elsewhere, but didn't understand the context. They were probably in say a story mode operation, and just think that when someone says you have bad gear it's something learned that they can carry along to other aspects of end game pve-ing which is totally wrong.

If you're in186/190/198 comm gear you're completely fine for those hm flashpoints.

Not saying that comm gear is any good, it isn't. It's total trash. But, it's not stinky or smelly where you can't do stuff with it. Really, it's totally 100 percent good to go for probably everything in this game minus pvp and hardmode operations at 60.

it all depends on what one calls a bad gear, some 168 blues without augments for HM flash? - yes, its bad gear.

Augmented purple 186-192 (190 Ziost)? - its decent gear more than enough.

people dnt go into HM flashes for gear, they do it for ult comms, so basically they want the run fast and easy and have people in decent gear, not struggling every boss and group of trash, with wipes and million-cost repair bills And i think its fair demand.

regarding quiters - ye, it happens, some just give up easily, people are people.

But sometimes there are groups that you just dont want to carry through content cz they are so bad that you can replace someone with your pet and it will be great improvment

anyway...

get decent gear (Ziost blues at least), augment it (MUST HAVE), know your hero\skills\rotations etc, know your role, learn tactics or at least read advices on tactics in chat and see what others do and you'll be perfectly fine. And just ignore whiners and quiters.

All 60 HM Flashpoints (except maybe Blood Hunt, but I have tried it since it was nerfed) can be completed in 186 token gear with no augments or optimization. I know, I have done them all on alts like that. It just people actually paying attention and using CC etc.

The "Your gear is bad..." statement is usually made by people who got carried by others for their gear and prefer to just go brain dead and let the gear carry them. I have seen sub geared people out dps them before, which was fun. I was glad I made him get in our parse group before we started. The excuses were hilarious when a 192/198 raid geared sorc was getting out dpsed by a 186 comm geared operative.

Augments aren't required in HM flashpoints. They help a lot though. It's more important to know how to play your class/role. 186 without min/maxing is just fine.

I think this is good example of "you don't need 50k hp for 60HMs"

3/4 are below 50k

What level gear do you have?

my gear is the 186 yavin comm gear, its not augmented but that's because I have less than 2 hours proper play time at level 60. Just to be clear this isn't operations that this is happening to me in, its HM flashpoints. Yes I only have 1 relic but that is because I have not been able to win rolls on any other relics in any other flashpoints I have done. What is the best way to get this super-ultra mega gear without HM flashpoints? I only got back into SWTOR about 2-3 months ago thanks to a friend so I may be a little rusty on some things but not everything, not by a long shot. I am more than experienced in my chosen roles (healer and tank, especially healer) , and I have experienced in the flashpoints I am trying to HM, when do you get to Ziost? is it after/during shadow of revan?

If the best pve gear you can get is from the ultimate gear vendors on the fleet

No, just no.

That is horribly wrong

Ultimate gear is definitely not the best pve gear. Far from it.

Ultimate gear may have the 198 gear rating which is the highest currently available gear rating (except for one item, but ignore that for the moment)

However highest rating does not mean best.

Not only is the 198 ultimate commendation gear much worse than the 198 gear from ops, but it is even in nearly all cases significantly worse than even the lower rating 192 gear from storymode ops. In some cases even lower than that have bits and pieces that are better.

Also even the 190 rating blues from Ziost solo quests have at least some enhancements that are better than the ones on 198 ultimate commendations gear.

Trying to get ultimate commendations is pretty much waste of time. Just get enough to buy the off-hand item and then forget about them.

Now, putting all that aside and back to topic:

You can of course do hm flashpoints (which are not the only way to get ultimate commendations by the way, just saying) in very low quality gear quite easily, but since you don't really say what gear you actually had, there is no way to tell if you were in bad gear that was too bad for it or not.

my gear is the 186 yavin comm gear, its not augmented but that's because I have less than 2 hours proper play time at level 60. Just to be clear this isn't operations that this is happening to me in, its HM flashpoints. Yes I only have 1 relic but that is because I have not been able to win rolls on any other relics in any other flashpoints I have done. What is the best way to get this super-ultra mega gear without HM flashpoints? I only got back into SWTOR about 2-3 months ago thanks to a friend so I may be a little rusty on some things but not everything, not by a long shot.

You can buy crafted 178 relics from GTN

If you don't want the ones that require clicking get

DPS/healer? Serendipitous Assault and Focused Retribution.

Tank? Reactive Warding and Shield Amplification.

You can also get crafted 186 relics from GTN but they are quite expensive.

Go to Ziost if you've completed Yavin already and you get almost full 190 set. Rest of the 190 pieces you can get from vendor on orbital station.

my gear is the 186 yavin comm gear, its not augmented but that's because I have less than 2 hours proper play time at level 60. Just to be clear this isn't operations that this is happening to me in, its HM flashpoints. Yes I only have 1 relic but that is because I have not been able to win rolls on any other relics in any other flashpoints I have done. What is the best way to get this super-ultra mega gear without HM flashpoints? I only got back into SWTOR about 2-3 months ago thanks to a friend so I may be a little rusty on some things but not everything, not by a long shot.

Your gear is fine, most likely people are leaving because they see you have an empty spot (which usually indicates someone who also is pretty new at the game and isn't very good yet). Honestly, if you bought a relic from the GTN (the 186 relics will cost you a pretty penny, but 168 or 176 are honestly fine, and they usually go for under 50k, check dulfy to see which one you should get) you'll probably find far fewer people leaving.

Also, don't worry about the augments, you really don't need those until you start doing SM operations (though they do help).

okay thanks I will try to finish up shadow of revan and get to Ziost for this blue gear and look at the GTN relics if it stops people saying this at least. As for the whole "best gear is from ult vendor thing" that probably comes from my rustyness sorry. I had about a year long break before coming back to this 2-3 months ago with a completely new set of characters

No worries, the Ult gear is decent (certainly better than 186 or 192 comm gear at least), but the gear you get from doing level 60 operations is even better than that. And you certainly don't need 198 gear for HM FPs. Basically, most people (not all, but most) are happy to run with someone who is maybe a little undergeared, especially if they are ridiculously overgeared or very very good, but someone who still has empty slots is typically implying they don't know what they are doing, so people just don't bother (especially if you are the tank or the healer).

Problem is that some of the FP require decent gear just becouse of DPS/Heal checks.

Bright example is Korriban Incursion.

It's a easiest FP of all 60.

BUT (!!!!)

If you don't have a decent DPS or heal gear - you will probably wipe at the first boss due his soft enrage.

Im not even talking about Blood hunt.

Im quite offten see people in 178 gear. And it usually catastrophy.

Yeah, 178 gear is cool enough... for Yavin daily.

In HM FPS 186 gear is necessery requirement.

I never believed in this tooltip about recommended gear level of 178. Its a lie.

Yes I only have 1 relic but that is because I have not been able to win rolls on any other relics in any other flashpoints I have done. What is the best way to get this super-ultra mega gear without HM flashpoints?

An empty slot is a sad sight, and that alone could make people disapprove of your gear. The best Relics (192 and 198) are only available from tokens in gained in operations (or possibly finding someone who can craft 192, but those will probably cost you several million). Other posters have mentioned a few sources, but there are several others.

You can get 186 from the NiM (Nightmare mode) Dread Fortress / Dread Palace (it's a level 55 op, but would probably be harder for you than SM Ravagers or ToS).

You can get crafted 186 on the GTN (usually a couple hundred thousand credits).

You can buy crafted 168 or 178 on the GTN (usually less than 50K). These are probably your best bang for the buck.

If you PVP, you can easily get a 168 relic from the PVP vendor (600 Unranked Warzone Comms). These are usable in PVE content; the reverse is not true (PVE relics don't work in warzones).

You can buy 162 relics with Basic Comms (level 55 vendor on fleet).

Depending on your alignment, you can pick up various level 50 and below relics from the gtn and various places.

If you have (Friend, I believe) reputation from THORN, you can buy level 45 relics from the vendor in the GSI area of Nar Shadda.

NOTE: If you run operations through groupfinder, your items get bolstered, but you have to have an item in the slot to get bolstered. So even the cheesiest low level relic will turn into a decent level 60 equivalent when you are running those ops (or any bolstered content, like some SM event bosses and the KDE flashpoint).

Personally, I'd spend the 50K and buy a 168/178 off the GTN or PVP for a couple hours (if you like it at all).

If you're new to a flashpoint, or with a character tell is to the others.

They may tip you about the tactics or advise you how to gear better.

I already told a newcomer his gear was too low for a flashpoint, and even if we would pass the first bosses, It will be hard and we'll be likely stuck at the last one because of the timer. He understood and bailed after we told him where he could queue safely and where he could get better stuff. I think this saved time and frustration for everyone.

NOTE: If you run operations through groupfinder, your items get bolstered, but you have to have an item in the slot to get bolstered. So even the cheesiest low level relic will turn into a decent level 60 equivalent when you are running those ops (or any bolstered content, like some SM event bosses and the KDE flashpoint).

As far as i know, the lack of augments isn't addressed by the bolster either. This may be an issue for high-end "sm" content.

Level 60 HMFPs are a bit trickier than SM ops, and you do need both gear and skill to make it through.

From personal experience, I can say that running un-augmented 186s (and unoptimized) is gonna end with a lot of wipes unless you're really on your game.

If you have gear ~186, they are technically right, but it is still doable. If your gear is < 186, they are definitely right and it is not doable. If your gear is > 186 (like Ziost) they are just being smartarses.

Just a question here because this really annoyed me when it happened. If the best pve gear you can get is from the ultimate gear vendors on the fleet..

to answer your question. it is because the statement is false.

All good points about gearing have already been made, just watch out for optimized enhancements (i.e. stats like power, accuracy, alacrity, crti, defence, absorb higher than that of any comms gear) - you can get them from ziost, hm fps and crafting. Buy relics 162, 178, 186 rating - all good. I usually run with 178 blue once (now i can craft them and they are really cheap) until I get Resurrected from ops.

Just to vent my frustration with this phrase - you have bad gear.

I recently started a new life on another server, so I was poor and couldn't augment all my gear at once. But after Ziost and some tinkering with basic comms gear I had a 42k mara that was parsing 3.3kdps and it was so frustrating to hear comments like: "looks like we have bad dps", meaning we can't kill that furrball on blood hunt. Which of course proved wrong.

My new tank had mostly 186 gear with 186 crafted enhancements, no augments. I was tanking just fine. And then one day I pulled a mob on Tython while other players were on the way and healer said something like: with gear like that you should really wait for a healer. I just left without a word, thinking: fine by me, wait for tank with better gear... Must've had bad day that day

to answer your question. it is because the statement is false.

But how else am I going to get my full HP build Sin?

Problem is that some of the FP require decent gear just becouse of DPS/Heal checks.

Bright example is Korriban Incursion.

It's a easiest FP of all 60.

BUT (!!!!)

If you don't have a decent DPS or heal gear - you will probably wipe at the first boss due his soft enrage.

Im not even talking about Blood hunt.

You're talking about the Droid? You're kiddin', right? You need ~4.9k dps to beat the enrage on this boss. That's 2.45kdps per DD when neither tank nor healer add any dps. Since at least tanks do, it's more in the range of 2k per dps. A number you could achieve back in the last days of the 1.x cycle in campaign gear. Nowadays you achieve this with autoattacks. There's NO REASON AT ALL to hit softenrage on this boss.

Im quite offten see people in 178 gear. And it usually catastrophy.

Yeah, 178 gear is cool enough... for Yavin daily.

In HM FPS 186 gear is necessery requirement.

I never believed in this tooltip about recommended gear level of 178. Its a lie.

To the OP: This is BS. Look up your questlog and you'll see the recommended gear level is 178. That is enough if you know what you're doing. But since it's so easy to get at least 190 Ziost blues, people will blame you for being undergeared.

But normally that is an excuse made by bads that need to be carried. Hell, I've seen people claim others, that were in fully min/maxed 180 token gear, are undergeared for TFB/S&V SM before 3.0.

Before 2.0 I've seen people saying others in full campaign gear (has an item rating of 146) are undergeared for Karaggas Palace or even EV SM, wich required a gear level of maybe 120.

Tldr: Get the 190 Zisot Equip, it's easily grindable and almost as good as the 192 token gear you get from lvl 60 SM ops. Then buy yourself 2 relics(or if you have an artificer, craft them yourself, shematics can be bought right at the trainer). As a dps/heal you'd want 1 serendipitious assault and 1 focused retribution. As a tank get reactive warding and fortunate redoubt. They are named Ruusan relic of X for 186(purple, which are already better than 186 token relics from DP NiM and almost as good as the 192 rating ones) and advanced Ruusan relic of X for the blue ones, rating 178.

That's all you need for HM FP's(in fact, for FP's it's already overgeared, but whatever) and SM OPS.

Thanks for all the tips guys, gonna definitely take the advice about relics (just went and bought them) and I am trying to power through yavin to get to zoist and this blue gear.

Just to clarify as a tank and a healer I more than know how to fight my corner and do my job well, (no bighead I've just been playing these role for a very long time), I just have done very little level 60 content because before I came back the cap was still 55 (I think, it was about a year ago) So I am not sure how a lot of the level 60 stuff works, it doesn't help that I'm not in a guild and cant seem to get into one for end game content, so in game this kind of advice is hard to come by

For the OP:

When doing HM 60 fps as a tank, I'm going to point out bad gear when I see the following:

1. A fully geared DPS with an accuracy rating of 90 melee/ranged and 100 force/tech.

All the guides available AND the tool tip for accuracy rating make it crystal clear what happens a percentage of the time to an attack should an elite or boss resist it.

Some attacks hit 100%, some get reduced and then again some get reduced to ZERO.

There's no way to make up for a 13k ambush that gets reduced to ZERO in a HM 60 fp.

/sarcism

I don't like watching dps unleash everything they have in a HM 60 fp while I watch "LOL" captioned all over the boss's HP bar.

/sarcasm

I'm looking for 99.9-101.0 melee/ranged and 109.9-111.0 in my dps.

2. A fully geared healer with no alacrity rating whatsoever.

Healing your companion as a single target with a slow channeled CHANCE at a big heal is one thing.

Healing 3 targets in a HM 60 fp is another. Same goes for ops.

As tank, I don't want a slow channeled CHANCE at one big heal...

...I want quick, fast, repetitive small heals for the entire group.

I'm looking for 7% - 11% alacrity rating in my healers. I'm also looking for a lot of primary stat and power.

3. Level 60 players who show up with missing gear.

There is absolutely no excuse for a player to show up at end game with an empty gear slot whatsoever. This is especially true of 12x XP. with the class mission having an option of 12 basic commendations as an award.

Just doing a few fps via group finder each week alone gets you over a hundred basic comms. And of course, when you progress through Rishi and Yavin you are practically give free gear along the way. And most people who finish Shadow of Revan end up with 600-700 basic commendations. I.e., you already have the comms you need to get 3-4 pieces of 186 gear.

178 relics, implants and earpieces on GTN are cheap. I know, cause I sell them for 70k, 19k and 19k.

Also note that on Dromund Kaas, a player who is PVP oriented can buy a complete set of PVP gear that can be upgraded as PVE gear on the side.

In the trainer rooms are vendors by doorway....complete sets of fully equipped adaptive gear at Level 20 and 40. That includes the related implants and earpieces. This way a PVPer who doesn't care how he looks in PVE can take care of the adaptive gear need using warzone comms - and not have to spend credits on GTN or cc's in the Cartel Market.

Upgrade the armorings every 3-4 levels. Alternate the mods and enhancements the same - a viable set of PVE gear is maintained all along to Level 60. And the PVPer will still have plenty of basic comms leftover at Level 60.

=8-)

1. A fully geared DPS with an accuracy rating of 90 melee/ranged and 100 force/tech.

 

All the guides available AND the tool tip for accuracy rating make it crystal clear what happens a percentage of the time to an attack should an elite or boss resist it.)

Few days ago I asked on fleet if 758 (yes, I have 758 Acc rating on my Sage and I know it sounds like a hack or something but it isn't) Acc rating is enough...

How many FPs/TFPs I've competed on that character after that? 0. Yes, zero.

=8-)

1. the little smiley face made me laugh at the end of your post

I'm looking for 7% - 11% alacrity rating in my healers. I'm also looking for a lot of primary stat and power.

2. as a healer I can tell you that stacking alacrity is harder than you think sometimes, I personally have about 6.5% alacrity on my 60 healer with 186 gear (yes I haven't really had time to do stuff on SWTOR the last day), that being said it is a very important stat for a healer, in a FP you dont have time for a 2-3 second channel on all your heals. That also being said. I hate it when people rage on healers when one person in the party dies, as I see it the healer has to keep the tank alive, the dps need to keep the healer alive and the tank needs to keep everyone alive, but there you go.

On a side note though, does missing gear really qualify as bad gear? I mean its not there so how can it be bad? (#sarcasm) better off just pointing out missing gear rather than calling it bad

People (especially people like me) get offended very easily when other player go around calling them bad, terrible and useless when more often than not it is an exaggeration.l