I understand that from the point of some classes, it would be virtually impossible to do some of the things that would be easy for lets say JK or SW but still it feels like the characters that we play are weak. There has been several moments that i have felt making us a bit more ****** would be a fine thing. Everybody keeps saying how special we are and talk about power and strength, but whenever something needs done we end up being ******* if we decline Valkorians help. First time i fel like we could have been shown in a better light was when lana was trying to open the huge door using force in third chapter, again some classes would have to be creative and use maybe a mine or a grenade or shortcut the system (in agent and smuggler way) but for force wielding characters it would have been easy to just let us show how strong we are and rip the doors apart just like Vaylin did, but i did chalk that up to the carbonite sickness. Second time is when you are attacked by the troopers, i mean honestly, when is this not annoying, you slaughter dozens of them at once when you are in control but than in cutscene you give up to 10 guys and again if you decline Valkorian you do nothing pretty much, stuff just sorts itself out. And thats the pattern with everything. Now when fighting Arcann i understand that he is strong and we would have trouble, but it could have surely been handled in a better way than just outright let us be defeated by him and let him pretty much be defeated by Koth. In the meantime Senya defeats Vaylin and is without a scratch, does that mean she is stronger than us, since we are? In general it seems like its all talk, all that we do is just beat some random powerless guys and whenever something real is happening we need help. For me, i play JK and this was very hard to watch, i ahve finished all the stories and i feel like the characters would be able to do much better in given situations than they were, sure they can be pressed but this imho wasnt the right way, it gave off wrong vibe, espcially with everybody talking about how special we are, i didnt feel special at all, i felt more like a nuisance sometimes o.O Jk's already went against the emperror one on one before, we all defeated Revan and multiple other enemies that were insanely strong, we cant we just see our characters let loose and show off some of the power we supposedly have, as force users we are barely able to use the force to push someone a few yards away from us in cutscenes. Its just hard to watch sometimes.

Aside for that, the story is excellent, dont get me wrong i love it.

Anyone else has this feeling?

I fully and 100% agree! When I saw Varlyn use her powers the way she did I said to myself, "Why doesn't my Jedi Knight do that kind of stuff?!" And I NEVER see my character do awesome stuff like that.

 

Bioware really does need to consider this and make the Jedi Knight class awesome instead of saying how special we are then never showing it. The Jedi Knight SHOULD be capable of beating Arcaan in his sister, but no...luck and companions saved the day. Again.

Playing through it as an Imperial Agent eliminated all those problems.

 

As an Agent, I'm perfectly fine with getting thrown around by these 'all powerful' force users... It always plays out like a James Bond film (which is perfect). You get beat down a bit against overwhelming odds, but true grit wins the day and we get that epic blaster kill shot .

 

Although, having played alongside my Sith Inquisitor friend on his KOTFE play through I can definitely see your point.

 

I howled in laughter when I saw Senya toss the supremely evil and ruthless Darth Nox like he was a toy. It's hard to remain an intimidating figure when an old lady whoops ya.

 

Still nine chapters though. I'm sure our characters will come into their own and turn the tables soon enough.

Wait when did that happen I swear I never had actual combat with Senya. Also what race is she?

If that happened after we were frozen and its no spoiler as the devs spoiled it we where poisoned.

Not particularly? I didn't mind my Knight getting tossed aside by Senya because she wasn't expecting it. She was caught off-guard, that happens to everyone. It's far from the first time that's happened to a Force-user, and far from the stupidest (see: Darth Maul, Episode 1).

 

And losing to Arcann was unexpected, but it was a nice surprise. Big V apparently trained his kids for war out of the cradle and Arcann--and Vaylin--are repeatedly stated to be out of our leagues. We NEED more power to beat them, which we either get from Valky, or we lose.

 

I mean, from the way my Knight was just cutting through mobs and silvers and golds like butter, I almost felt like she was TOO powerful, if anything.

Wait when did that happen I swear I never had actual combat with Senya. Also what race is she?

If that happened after we were frozen and its no spoiler as the devs spoiled it we where poisoned.

 

 

 

Since I used my insta-60 and pretended she was a new character from the main heroes of the galaxy, I wasn't too bothered. She was a strong Jedi with potential to be even stronger but she wasn't the Hero of Tython or the Barsen'thor.

 

Had I actually played my Force-using mains though I might be in the same camp.

 

Regarding some specifics:

Valyn is getting a bit of the Starkiller treatment. I approve, and I'd love for my characters to do the same, but I wasn't expecting it. I don't mind running away from her after being comatose and dying for five years. I do expect to defeat her on my own though when the time comes and I hope they don't "Revan" it up but having every major NPC there to wail on her with me (same for Arcann). I would also like to romance her but that's another matter:D

 

Senya's Force yank was a surprise move and since there was no malevolence behind it it would've been hard to forsee, especially in the heat of battle. I don't mind it but I do take issue with the distance we went flying, that was a little excessive and felt like it should have

sound playing. It should've been shorter, and she could've blocked us off afterwards (activate a blast door, or topple a crate or something.

 

Using Volkarion's power: the first time was damn impressive the other times it sucked.

Edited October 28, 2015 by CrutchCricket

You are talking about the two instances where i might have understand, the first being while we are weakened, the second being yanked by a friendly, sure those are acceptable, a bit weird but acceptable. BUt how about not being able to defeat a few soldiers in the swamps and basically letting Lana die if you dont accept the gift? My main point is basically the fact that from what veryone is saying we are supposed to be imensely strong, but you never are compared to the strong characters, you always end up running away. As i mentioned i do undestand the cutscenes as from Agent or Mercenary point it would make sense to destroy the door with force, but this could have been circumvented by them having it blast with orbital strike or a mine or something like that, make it look cool and show how they can think on their feet, its not the first time any of them faced a force user, usually they are supper for them.

The biggest offender however to me is, the fact that Senya was actually able to virtually destroy Vaylin even without wanting to hurt her, why isnt she the outlander as she is obviously able to defeat a character that is supposed to be one of the two strongest if not the strongest antagonist.

I do feel like my awesome Sith Inquisitor is bit too weak in this expansion, both in terms of gameplay and story. I spoiled myself about what's going to happen with the fight against Arcann, got to that point and couldn't make up my mind. No matter what I choose, I'd get a result that I wasn't happy with, so I just disconnected.

 

Through the whole of expansion, the dialogue options haven't really felt like the character I played through past 60 levels on. Also, if I wanted to get tossed around by force users like a piece of furniture, I'd play more on my trooper or agent.

 

Arcann feels like a boring *** character overall, I didn't mind being beaten by Emperor or any other proper character. Arcann just feels like SWTOR's version of Kai Leng. Dull, confusing emo force user with serious daddy issues

 

I like the story overall though, if it was a completely new game and I wasn't playing the chars I had been playing for past 60 levels, I'd love it. Currently the story doesn't fit my characters in any way.

My character feels the same as always, yeah, the villains are strong, so what? Revan was to strong for us to take on alone, but that doesn't make us weak. I like our characters getting their asses kicked.

I took my Sith Warrior through first, and I didn't really feel like getting thrown around was out of character for him. Keep in mind that I do not presume that he is anything but what the game presented him as 1-65.

 

Valkorion repeatedly says that the Empire and Republic are basically crap compared to Zakuul; that the Empire and the Republic are leagues behind his most prized Empire of Zakuul. That the player character can tell Valkorion that the Empire is worth saving means ****, it's simply not true at that point in the story because power-wise they're inferior. What Valkorion meant when he wanted to recruit you in Chapter 1 was that your player character was born in the Empire/Republic, but that you were actually meant to become part of Zakuul from the beginning because your potential power/skill/wits is that much stronger than anyone else's in the Republic/Empire.

 

You were just born at the wrong place and received inferior training as opposed to what Arcann, and Thexan received. That goes for Darth Marr as well, given that Valkorion asked him to join as well, and for Revan too, since he was trying to corrupt him all those years. We as players are exceptional, but without the Zakuulian preparation, that's why Valkorion offers his power to you so many times-- because you're not ready to thrive on your own yet.

 

If you look at it that way, you don't feel cheated by the story when Arcann throws you around like a little *****. And with Senya, she threw you away because she didn't want you killing Vaylin, who's power is also untrained and would be bested by a healthy player character at this point in time. Senya isn't stronger than you, if she were then she'd be the Outlander, she just caught you unaware, that's all.

 

The point of the Alliance system is to put the Republic and the Empire up to par with Zakuul so that they're actually worthy of being saved.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Joluka

What does not kills you makes you stronger and it was a learning moment after all Anakin lost to Dooku the first time but a year or so later well things changed. The same with Luke and Vader or Nox and whatever the name of that dude was Thanaton I guess. Or the hero of tython and the emperor.

There are two points that make the player feel really weak.

 

1st when you are thrown through a door way by one of your own allies so she can fight someone you were squaring up against. Even light 5 I would have taken her head the second I got back for throwing me like that. But more is how amazing she must be cause she beats a super bad to the ground the whole time not wanting to hurt her.

 

Next is when you get saved in the final big fight. Choices are saved by a ghost or saved by an ally. Your too rubbish to do it on your own, but they win the fight with ease. You are knocked about but they are immune to it, really is them saving the galaxy not you.

The main thing I don't like is that I really don't feel challenged against mobs the way I did during the story lines. Even by yourself, it's not too difficult to kill elites and add ons. The only time I felt challenged at all was in the swamp right before you left Zakuul. Even the fight against Heskal, I didn't feel challenged, it just took me awhile. My health hardly went down at all ( and no, my comp was not in healing mode, I rarely ever use that, because I rarely ever feel challenged!! ) Otherwise, I love the story itself!! Edited October 29, 2015 by SharlaSedai

Weak? No. Weaker than his opposition? Absolutely and i'm fine with that. That's probably the idea, if you were stronger you could just march right up to them and kill them, there would be no need to 'gather a team'

 

I mean Luke couldn't take on the Palpatine on his own. Neither could Yoda. Qui-Gon couldn't take Maul on his own either. Etc.

 

As for the Jedi Knight's 'strength', you can probably assume that the Emperor wanted the Knight to kill that body to throw the Empire into chaos. He was, after all, the same guy who OHK's a powerful Darth Marr like it was nothing.

 

 

What Valkorion meant when he wanted to recruit you in Chapter 1 was that your player character was born in the Empire/Republic, but that you were actually meant to become part of Zakuul from the beginning because your potential power/skill/wits is that much stronger than anyone else's in the Republic/Empire.

 

You were just born at the wrong place and received inferior training as opposed to what Arcann, and Thexan received. That goes for Darth Marr as well, given that Valkorion asked him to join as well, and for Revan too, since he was trying to corrupt him all those years. We as players are exceptional, but without the Zakuulian preparation, that's why Valkorion offers his power to you so many times-- because you're not ready to thrive on your own yet.

 

If you look at it that way, you don't feel cheated by the story when Arcann throws you around like a little *****. And with Senya, she threw you away because she didn't want you killing Vaylin, who's power is also untrained and would be bested by a healthy player character at this point in time. Senya isn't stronger than you, if she were then she'd be the Outlander, she just caught you unaware, that's all.

 

probably my favorite way of looking at it. thumbs up.

Edited October 29, 2015 by maxetius

Lana handles the door since outlander was still weak after being relesaed from carbonite...Arcann only tosses the Outlander around in just a couple times in the cut scenes. I actually felt Outlander was able to hold his own pretty well against Arcann.

Lana handles the door since outlander was still weak after being relesaed from carbonite...Arcann only tosses the Outlander around in just a couple times in the cut scenes. I actually felt Outlander was able to hold his own pretty well against Arcann.

 

Again it was only the first battle we have time to improve by a lot.

No, the Outlander is absolutely not weak, but playing through the game as a SW and then a trooper, I would say the trooper is more exciting. You actually feel the odds are against you, completely and utterly against you. It's wonderful.

It does certainly feel like your comps are stronger than you are, which is rather silly. Senya is able to hold off against Vailyn just fine, Lana/Koth are able to deal with Arcann with minimum effort, while PC just gets their *** handed to them.

 

Seems pointless for them to go to such trouble to get PC freed. In terms of gameplay and story, I've never felt so useless while playing my characters.

I think that is the point of the story. you are dealing with an enemy that is stronger than you. at the start. Edited October 29, 2015 by cool-dude

It does certainly feel like your comps are stronger than you are, which is rather silly. Senya is able to hold off against Vailyn just fine, Lana/Koth are able to deal with Arcann with minimum effort, while PC just gets their *** handed to them.

 

Seems pointless for them to go to such trouble to get PC freed. In terms of gameplay and story, I've never felt so useless while playing my characters.

 

Senya is their mother, and as a knight commander, probably had alot to do with the children's training. So, of course she would be able to hold her own, against someone she knows very well.

Senya is their mother, and as a knight commander, probably had alot to do with the children's training. So, of course she would be able to hold her own, against someone she knows very well.

Exactly is like Anakin and Obi-Won they are both very strong but we all know that Anakin was stronger but Obi-Won knew everything Anakin knew and also his weakness that damn robot arm and his temper.

Arcann just feels like SWTOR's version of Kai Leng. Dull, confusing emo force user with serious daddy issues.

 

I don't know about you, but that made killing him all the more enjoyable. I think I could watch that cut-scene run on loop and never tire of it.

 

Senya's Force yank was a surprise move and since there was no malevolence behind it it would've been hard to forsee, especially in the heat of battle. I don't mind it but I do take issue with the distance we went flying, that was a little excessive and felt like it should have

sound playing

 

I really only had a problem with the distance as well, and even then only when I was playing a force-user (excellent sound choice btw... spot on).

 

I personally believe that Bioware has handled how our characters react to this new set of villains appropriately. It has more of a Kotor element to it (ie: running from... -uses google- .... Malak). I do realize that we

but the point still stands. Most good stories do not have heroes waltzing in and taking down the prime villain without some encountering some setbacks first.

 

Side point, had we stayed and fought Vaylin, who would have faced off against Arkan in the cargo room? I'd like to believe had anyone else but ourselves gone there, they would have died.

Senya is their mother, and as a knight commander, probably had alot to do with the children's training. So, of course she would be able to hold her own, against someone she knows very well.

 

If you ask her about it, she'll tell you she had very little to do with her children. Last she saw them in the living flesh they were small.

OP:

 

I agree with your post completely. Every instance where our characters could step up and say "I got this" we almost seem to cower and underwhelm... After 9 chapters with my beloved SW I was looking forward to switching to my Agent because he at least is supposed to get slapped around yet ultimately triumph. Before the expansion I thought "this is all about the force users", now I see that the force only counts when its in an npc's hands, not ours.

 

I expect the rest of the chapters will have us focus on running around making the allied npc's happy so they can go kill the enemies for us, oh boy.