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Can I get a Dev up in here!? Looking for guidance on the future of healing

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Can I get a Dev up in here!? Looking for guidance on the future of healing

bobudo's Avatar


bobudo
01.20.2012 , 01:09 PM | #1
Dear Devs,

Now, I know this post is likely folly, as you've repeatedly stated you don't talk about future changes and things in progress, etc. And I get that - it makes sense as a policy to not talk about things before they're ready for the limelight (especially given the environment on these forums); so I'm not looking for specifics or details or anything like that.

But I need some guidance here: As an Operative healer, I'm having a crisis of faith regarding how the class is working and how it stacks up against the (according to popular consensus on these forums) dominate healing class: Sorcerer/Sage.

I've not seen a single dev post on the subject of how well non-Sorcerer/Sage healing is performing compared to expectations, and I need to know whether or not that current state of things as seen as problematic; if it is receiving attention or discussion; or if it's all working as intended.

Again, no details necessary (though obviously welcome ), I just want to know where these things stand so that I can make a more informed decision about continuing to play my current class as a healer.


Thanks.

----------------------------------
Dear Everyone else,

I wanted to put up a little something to preempt the "everything is fine", the bioware white knights, and the l2p comments I expect this to draw.
  1. I am not asking for Sorcerer/Sage to be nerfed. I believe they are working as intended, and that the other classes are in need of a little attention in order to balance things out so that the prevailing perception is parity between the classes.
  2. I do - in fact - understand my class and know how to play. I understand that there are supposed to be tradeoffs between the utility of the Sorc/Sage and the other healing classes. Trooper/BH get heavy armor, Smug/Ops get stealth etc. etc. It is my belief that these trade-offs are not working as intended; leading the Sage/Sorc to become considered the dominate healing class.
  3. I understand that one of the major differences between Sage/Sorc & the other classes is meant to be their resource system; and I understand that the Ammo/Heat/Energy system is capable of - in the hands of someone adequetly skilled - out-lasting the Sage/Sorc. It is my belief that these differences have been unintentionally minimized, leading the Sage/Sorc to be considered the dominate healing class.
  4. My previous two points are particularly salient given the the vast utility a Sage/Sorc has (threat dump for allies, shield, force speed) which the other classes lack; as they currently stand Trooper/BH and Smug/Op can only heal at an almost comparable rate (if not conceptually for a slightly longer time).
  5. More so than prevailing forum opinions, it is apparant that the Smug/Op & Trooper/BH healing tree is either (a) incomplete or (b) poorly planned. Too many of the talents in both of these trees appear useless compared to those contained in the Sage/Sorc tree, such that raching the 31-point skill requires numerous "throw away" talents in non-Sage/Sorc trees.
  6. This is again true of the healing abilities granted to the non-Sage/Sorc classes - speaking from experience, a Smug/Ops healer really only makes use of 4/7 healing abilities on a regular basis - making the other classes feel half-baked and unfinished.

See, the moral of the story is, I want to be a main healer; I'm one of those masochists who likes to heal (or maybe it's stockholm syndrome??).

I was under the impression that any of the three healing advanced classes would be able to "main heal"; that they would be - despite minor differences - functionally equivalent.

However, given the amount of utility the Sage/Sorc has vs. the other classes, this is not the case: except for very niche things (say, an all stealth team comprised of 1 stealth tank, 2 stealth dps, 1 stealth heal) there is no scenario where a Sage/Sorc healer wouldn't do just as good as the other classes.

Yes, I know, that sounds like parity, but consider the other side of the coin: there are very common instances (massive damage spikes, high damage encounters, other players mistakes) where a Trooper/BH/Smug/Op healer cannot perform to the same level as a Sage/Sorc.

That's the problem. I want to be a more than mediocre niche healer. So I need to know if BW has any intention of looking into/changing/adjusting the current state of Smug/Op healing, of it it is - in their judgment - working as intended.

If it's working as intended That's fine! - it just means I picked the wrong class for the role I want to play.

But, if BW is looking into these things, I want to know, because I think healing as an Op is fun, it just needs a little devlove.

Please, make this into a discussion. Talk about what you love/hate about healing between the 3 classes as it currently stands. Make this into a discussion worht a dev post and we might get some of the answers we're looking for.

Cheers, and thanks for reading all this eyebleed.
Bioware hates healing such that they won't take any healing problems seriously. Support your local healers. Boycott the Patch 1.2 Healing Nerfs. Make it clear to the Devs that their idea of "balance" is unacceptable. Unsubscribe Today

Damukag's Avatar


Damukag
01.20.2012 , 01:15 PM | #2
Well spoken, but as you said; I haven't seen a single Dev comment on these boards. I'd recommend sending this in an email message or putting it on a forum where they are known to post, because this will likely otherwise get lost in/dismissed as the rest of the more baseless posts.
"Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of."

-Arthur Dent

bobudo's Avatar


bobudo
01.20.2012 , 01:33 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Damukag View Post
Well spoken, but as you said; I haven't seen a single Dev comment on these boards. I'd recommend sending this in an email message or putting it on a forum where they are known to post, because this will likely otherwise get lost in/dismissed as the rest of the more baseless posts.
If I repost this in general will you go give it a bump?
Bioware hates healing such that they won't take any healing problems seriously. Support your local healers. Boycott the Patch 1.2 Healing Nerfs. Make it clear to the Devs that their idea of "balance" is unacceptable. Unsubscribe Today

prochuvi's Avatar


prochuvi
01.20.2012 , 08:06 PM | #4
i cant agree more with you,if every nm mode gonna need stacking of sages because troopers and sawbones are useles on aoe heal then i need reroll.
delete the limit on target of trooper and scounrel aoe heal or we are doomed,hech i dont mind loose the 5 % mroe healing buff taht give mine aoe

Jooji's Avatar


Jooji
01.20.2012 , 08:44 PM | #5
I have 2 full champion geared healers, an operative and a sorcerer. I fully agree the sorcerer is much more fun to play, has better offensive capabilities, and WAY more utility(utility being the huge difference).

Operatives can certainly put out as much healing as sorcs but that's where it stops.

All the operative utility is from 10m or melee range, which is dumb. Sorcs also have great hybrid spec capabilities such as my current 21/2/18 spec that can easily get 9-10 medals in a warzone, topping both damage and healing. Operatives don't have that capability, nor do operatives have a knockback, sprint, or life grip.

To me the operative healing spec feels like an after thought. BW made the sorc class and put some effort into making it feel fluid and fun then just threw a couple spells together when the operative was made.

I'm currently leveling a trooper so guess I'll see how they stack up soon ><

They could easily buff operative healers without breaking concealment, perhaps put a knockback or sprint late tier healing tree. Kolto probe should also just become a single application spell. The current double application is clunky and very difficult to manage with the current UI. Kolto infusion desperately needs a buff also...

Liralen's Avatar


Liralen
01.21.2012 , 04:00 AM | #6
I agree with the OP. I've been a healer since the original EQ, and have seen a lot of creative attempts by devs to get away from the cleric goddess that EQ created. Most notably was City of Heroes, which had a "healing" class - healing in quotes because the class could prevent damage if only players would stand near her.

I found that other players would much rather go off and do their own thing, and I had very limited abilities to keep them alive if they did so. There were a couple of other creative "healing" classes that could keep people from harm, which worked well if they cooperated, but failed if they didn't.

From which I learned the "best" healing class was one that could heal stupid. It turned me off from being a healer for a long time.

I decided to be a healer again in SWTOR, and deliberately chose the class that I judged best able to heal "stupid" - the Sith Inquisitor. I also play an Imperial Agent turned healer. While both can do an adequate job when things go well, the Sith can handle the unexpected so much better.

I'm pretty sure that the devs designed these classes on paper, and didn't take into account player behavior, the poor UI (how long did it take you figure out how to assist?), poor aggro management tools, or bugs in the game - all of which give a decided advantage to a healer that can heal "stupid", even if the stupidity is not the player's fault.

And ultimately, the devs will design difficult encounters based upon healers who can handle the unexpected, so it was silly of them to design healing classes that perform best when all goes well. They will design these final encounters to ensure that it doesn't.

Bwice's Avatar


Bwice
01.21.2012 , 01:05 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by bobudo View Post
If I repost this in general will you go give it a bump?
I posted a similar thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...48#post1887448 in General Discussion. They moved it here, without informing me or asking. So I assume they would do the same, however you already having thread here may just cause them to close it.

On the subject material I agree that the 3 classes on a directly PvE mutual standpoint are imbalanced. These was possibly intended but wrongfully so.
Rhedd Aquila - Jung Ma "I expect the best and I give the best. Here's the beer. Here's the entertainment. Now have fun. That's an order."
-=Crimson Elite=-

Walldorf's Avatar


Walldorf
01.21.2012 , 07:30 PM | #8
Sometimes i ask myself if ppl see the big picture, sometimes i ask myself if developers are ppl .

The classes basics (im ImP so i tell about Imp side ^^)

Sorc: Light armor, med dmg, big heal, "unlimited" ressources, cure mental and force debuffs

Agent: med armor, huge dmg, med heal, "unlimited" ressources, cure phys

merc: heavy armor, good dmg, med heals, limited ressources, cure phys

Thats the first things i know about that Classes. Surly you want no "Heavy Armor, massive dmg, massive heal, unlimited ressources" kind of guy. I play a sorc and yes im THE MAn if it comes to heal, but thats it. Noone is intrested in the med dps a Sorc provides (man need a dps meter -.-) so i have to stick to my healing dummy live . So you are a merc or a OP and see "Meh healing is awefull what should i do?" everyone will say "Reroll Sorc or do dmg!"

I would be happy if the healing classes could be balanced, but if you get unbalenced in the big picture everything will get worse.

I think the best thing they could do for the start is a 28 point (or so) talent that will passivly bolster your energy regen or your heat loss. Very high up in the healtree. The biggest problem of OP and Merc are theyr ressource managment.

I think all healers would be happy if OP and Merc could nuke theyre healings as well as sorcs .

The second thing that comes in my mind are the set bonis. Sorc set bonis are AWESOME! The best you want to have, no sucking stats, everything is great. So what do BH and OP sets do? I Hear they suck and make sucking skills suck harder ^^.

So there are two points where you can tweak a bit. Ressources and gear. Skillscalings and that math crap behind i dont mention because it's not my kind of stuff .

Plorb's Avatar


Plorb
01.21.2012 , 07:49 PM | #9
Anyone else feel like our healing could use more flash-heal-sort-of-things? Just one with a low cast time that eats energy if you're spamming it? My tank mostly dies on me because my HoT's aren't doing enough and K Injection has such a long cast time.

Perhaps this is because I don't my class well enough tho?

bobudo's Avatar


bobudo
01.24.2012 , 04:33 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Bwice View Post
I posted a similar thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...48#post1887448 in General Discussion. They moved it here, without informing me or asking. So I assume they would do the same, however you already having thread here may just cause them to close it.
Yeah, that's what happened.

Bioware Employees: PLEASE! Don't be so cruel. a Simple "Yes, we are looking into your complaints." or "No, working as intended." Is all I'm asking for!

Instead, I feel like this "healer" forum has been created as a place for people to vent and be forgotten about.

I mean seriously! You've acknowledged Sentinel/Marauder and begun addressing them! You've acknowledged Operative/Scoundrel burst DPS imbalances and begun nerfing it!

Someone has to have seen that every post by Operative/Scoundrel Healers has been talking about how unsatisfying it is to work our tails off trying to accomplish what Sorcerer/Sages achieve without breaking a sweat and still coming up sub-par.

Someone has to have brought this up, or put it on an action list, or deprioritized it or something!

We just want to know we're being heard! Is that too much to ask!?
Bioware hates healing such that they won't take any healing problems seriously. Support your local healers. Boycott the Patch 1.2 Healing Nerfs. Make it clear to the Devs that their idea of "balance" is unacceptable. Unsubscribe Today