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Why does my Scout struggle so hard against Strike Fighters?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Why does my Scout struggle so hard against Strike Fighters?

Loadsamonie's Avatar


Loadsamonie
04.30.2019 , 06:28 PM | #1
I have two scouts actually, Novadive and Flashfire, but Novadive is relegated strictly to jousting with Gunships. I'm specifically talking about Flashfire here, my dogfighting ship.

I have decent success at popping bombers and winning turning battles with other Scouts, but Strike Fighters are my worst nightmare on this ship. I don't know why but even with the shield stripping and armor ignoring perks of Rapids, I just can't get through a Strikes shields, and even when I do, it seems like they have hull for days.

This is my Flashfire build: http://dulfy.net/2013/11/16/swtor-ga...HgAeAB4ALgA+A=

As you can see its focus is on stacking evasion and turning speed, running Rapids and Clusters for the absolute maximum firing arc (not a fan of Bursts). I've got both Increased Shield Damage and Ignore Armor on my Rapids, so I should be shredding anything that isn't stacking evasion, and even then I've got pretty high accuracy. It can't just be that Strikes are just THAT tanky...

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
04.30.2019 , 08:42 PM | #2
Hi Loads, first off I want to let you know that I believe Bursts are still far superior to Rapids. (I was going to post in your other thread asking about it today)

Bursts are still king of the lasers, they provide the most damage in the windows that you can see your target. They still do loads of damage when up close and are the best lasers for Domination.

Now Rapids did get an upgrade in the 5.5 patch but if you don't like Burst lasers, I'd highly recommend Lights instead of Rapids. Lights deal more damage and have higher accuracy then Rapids. The only advantage Rapids has over lights is the Armor penetration, however Lights deal so much more damage that your target would need to have in excess of 25% Damage reduction for Rapids to pull ahead since most of your damage is to shields on a Strike anyways.

So if you were fighting say a Charged plating build, in that specific scenario Rapids would be better. However because so many of the best weapons currently ignore Damage reduction very very few builds are running it.

Because of these reasons Lights are currently far superior to Rapids. However Burst gets the best of both worlds being as accurate and damage dealing as Lights but also having the Armor penetration that Rapids has.


Now I'm assuming this is all for Domination since, Scouts right now aren't great in Team Deathmatch and that's because of how weak they are to Proton Torpedo right now. Scout basically have to play next to a source of line of sight all game now. While they are the premier ship in that scenario now, this weakness has left them without a great job in Team Deathmatch.


On your build you also take Cluster missiles, which are great, but maybe not for the reason you're taking them. Cluster missiles are a great support missile currently, you use them to force missile breaks out of the opponents so that your Strike teammates can come in with the heavier missiles/torpedos and fire on the targets you've forced to use a missile break on. If you're looking to kill the Strike on your own you actually don't want them to use a missile break, you want them to stay in your sights, for this reason I use Rocket Pods when looking to build a Scout to kill targets on a Satelitte. Rocket Pods also give you a nice way to clear pesky mines that might be lying on a Sat as you're arriving.

(You can see my exact build here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=752217)


At the end of the day the Flashfire is a godly ship in Domination, that's suffereing a little in Team Deathmatch right now. I'd really recommend giving Burst lasers another go as they are still one of, if not the best laser in the game. If you really can't stand them try swapping to Light lasers.


A last quick aside Loads, I've been doing a lot of 1 on 1 teaching lately by simply getting in voice and answering questions in real time or doing video analysis for players that record games and we go over them together. If that's something you're interested in let me know either here or in a private message.

Hope that helps!
DrakolichDrakolích
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Loadsamonie's Avatar


Loadsamonie
04.30.2019 , 09:19 PM | #3
I'm actually looking for a GSF-focused guild on Satele Shan, so I can have friends to run GSF with and communicate with on Discord. No luck finding one yet.

The main reason I'm so uncomfortable with Bursts is because of their power usage. I find that I constantly run out of power when using them, which is something I rarely experience when using Rapids, even when paired with Frequency Capacitor. Now, if Pods are a good pairing with Lights, I'd be willing to give that build a try after I've finished upgrading my current components. I'm actually running Rapids on my Clarion as well, so those might suit that ship better. What Capacitor would you recommend for Lights, Damage or Range?

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
05.01.2019 , 12:29 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Loadsamonie View Post
I'm actually looking for a GSF-focused guild on Satele Shan, so I can have friends to run GSF with and communicate with on Discord. No luck finding one yet.

The main reason I'm so uncomfortable with Bursts is because of their power usage. I find that I constantly run out of power when using them, which is something I rarely experience when using Rapids, even when paired with Frequency Capacitor. Now, if Pods are a good pairing with Lights, I'd be willing to give that build a try after I've finished upgrading my current components. I'm actually running Rapids on my Clarion as well, so those might suit that ship better. What Capacitor would you recommend for Lights, Damage or Range?
I personally use Frequency with Lights because I don't really have weapon power issues with them.
With Bursts I use damage though, since like you said power usage can be a concern. I used to use Range with Bursts to help add even more accuracy but I find with less and less evasion based ships the extra accuracy isn't really needed. I also use Wingman so that gives me another accuracy boost when needed.
DrakolichDrakolích
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Loadsamonie
05.01.2019 , 01:06 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
I personally use Frequency with Lights because I don't really have weapon power issues with them.
With Bursts I use damage though, since like you said power usage can be a concern. I used to use Range with Bursts to help add even more accuracy but I find with less and less evasion based ships the extra accuracy isn't really needed. I also use Wingman so that gives me another accuracy boost when needed.
Well, I tried them with Frequency, power consumption was a huge issue. And I feel like since I have two Scouts, one of which already uses Quads and Pods, I don't need Pods on my Flashfire either. Rapids and Clusters are working for the build I use, I just have problems with Strike Fighters, but that seems to be a universal issue to any Scout I play, not just Flash. I guess they just have such high shields with Directional Shields that nothing I do can really crack them without a lot of sustained firepower. So I think I'll stick to Rapids/Clusters on my Flashfire and LC's/Pods on my Novadive and just grin and bear it, stay away from Strikes whenever possible. Rapids/Clusters are what works for me, even if they're not optimal.

You have shown me how strong Lights can be though, I got quite a few kills with them in an earlier game, so I think what I'm going to do is adopt using Lights on my Clarion. That ship is more for support than direct offense, so I think Lights will pair nicely with EMP Missile. Hit with an EMP to disable engines and damage some Hull, then pelt the target with Lights while they're immobilized

Loadsamonie's Avatar


Loadsamonie
05.02.2019 , 12:42 AM | #6
Well, seems like regardless of my primary, Strikes just give me a hard time as a Scout. They have ridiculous amounts of shields, I can't get through their defenses.

I did learn a valuable lesson in GSF chat though, I shouldn't be dogfighting one on one, with Strikes especially, I'm better off flanking and tailing ships that a teammate is already engaged with, playing wingman rather than fighter. I need to learn to cherry pick my targets, stay out of bad situations and not feed the opposing team kills.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
05.02.2019 , 12:28 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Loadsamonie View Post
Well, seems like regardless of my primary, Strikes just give me a hard time as a Scout. They have ridiculous amounts of shields, I can't get through their defenses.

I did learn a valuable lesson in GSF chat though, I shouldn't be dogfighting one on one, with Strikes especially, I'm better off flanking and tailing ships that a teammate is already engaged with, playing wingman rather than fighter. I need to learn to cherry pick my targets, stay out of bad situations and not feed the opposing team kills.
Alright I don't want to be mean here, but last night I played a couple of games vs you. From the games I played, it didn't have anything to do with the weapon you were using, your accuracy was very very low in the games we played. Which means you likely just need aiming practice with weapons, which is why you're having a lot of weapon power issues, because most of your shots just aren't connecting.

Speaking of weapon power issues, I just wanted to make sure you knew to be firing in "F1" power to weapon right? Being in this mode gives you +50% weapon power regeneration and +10% laser damage as well.


To the advice someone gave you on not dogfighting, yes you don't really fight out in the open on a Scout, you want to always be near some kind of object to be able to dive in and out of line of sight to block missiles. However in a turning fight a Scout will often destroy a Strike on a node, because they have superior turning and evasion is very good vs high deflection shots on a node.
DrakolichDrakolích
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Loadsamonie
05.02.2019 , 08:25 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
Alright I don't want to be mean here, but last night I played a couple of games vs you. From the games I played, it didn't have anything to do with the weapon you were using, your accuracy was very very low in the games we played. Which means you likely just need aiming practice with weapons, which is why you're having a lot of weapon power issues, because most of your shots just aren't connecting.

Speaking of weapon power issues, I just wanted to make sure you knew to be firing in "F1" power to weapon right? Being in this mode gives you +50% weapon power regeneration and +10% laser damage as well.


To the advice someone gave you on not dogfighting, yes you don't really fight out in the open on a Scout, you want to always be near some kind of object to be able to dive in and out of line of sight to block missiles. However in a turning fight a Scout will often destroy a Strike on a node, because they have superior turning and evasion is very good vs high deflection shots on a node.
To be honest, those matches weren't really a fair judge of skill because, according to several people I was chatting with on Discord, you were rolling with a premade full of super aces and stomping the **** out of everyone. The few times I tangled with you I got popped by a Burst crit instantly. You guys single handedly killed the queue for us last night, we had to wait hours after that to get another pop. And when people called you out on it you bounced from Discord.

That said, yes, I know I'm not a very accurate shot. I'm going to try lowering my sensitivity and see if that helps. Though honestly, Rapids are a spraying weapon, so my accuracy will probably be low regardless of my skill with them. But the few games I had today, despite being on the losing end, I was able to finish with a positive K/D ratio, so I feel like I'm starting to improve a bit. I'm learning to stay close to my team, be choosy with my targets and avoiding risky, reckless situations. So thank you for the advice you gave me, it is helping quite a bit.

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Verain
05.03.2019 , 11:33 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Loadsamonie View Post
To be honest, those matches weren't really a fair judge of skill because,
They are not a bad judge of accuracy. You were also not plagued with enemy ships with high evasion. While cerainly accuracy will go down against good opponents, it won't go down a lot unless you are playing against an evasion scout crew.

Quote:
according to several people I was chatting with on Discord, you were rolling with a premade full of super aces and stomping the **** out of everyone.
Heh heh.

Mmmmmm


Quote:
You guys single handedly killed the queue for us last night, we had to wait hours after that to get another pop.
This accusation is a little bit tired- queues generally dry up at similar times, more or less. I have been hearing that queues would dry up from playing to win since long before this game came out, across several games. It is always nonsense. After several years, there are still queues.

Quote:
And when people called you out on it you bounced from Discord.
This is total nonsense. No one left the GSF Discord because we were "called out" for playing as a team.

Also I am still in that Discord.

Quote:
That said, yes, I know I'm not a very accurate shot
Then why say all that?
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Loadsamonie's Avatar


Loadsamonie
05.03.2019 , 12:46 PM | #10
Because given the nature of Rapids, especially when paired with Frequency, I'm of the mind that accuracy tends to be on the low side with them in general. Also, the few times I tangled with Drako he was running a Scout, so he did have a lot of Evasion to contend with.

But Drako gave me a lot of good advice last night, and it was much appreciated. I'm still trying to put it into practice, but I do feel like I'm starting to improve. GSF has a steep learning curve so I know it's going to take me a while to find my groove, but I at least feel like I'm starting to get somewhere now.

And just to be clear, while I stand by what I said about you guys killing the queue, I don't have any problem with people grouping and doing premades. If I had a group to consistently run with, I'd be doing it. It was just an observation on my part that, after a couple of games with Drako, I was waiting over an hour for the next game, and it was clear in GSF chat that a lot of people just got fed up with being "farmed", as they put it.