I think you just made my point for me... 1943 unique players "actively" (and getting 10 wins is a pathetic baseline for being "active") participating in solo ranked would be an extremely low amount of players, 250-500 is literally the game mode on life support.

1943 with 10 or more wins was just on Star Forge. It's 7679 game-wide. And your definition of "extremely low" is arbitrary. In prime time, solos popped regularly throughout the season. At high points there were multiple games going at once. I played solos almost every day.

Edit: Yes, they're both equally dead because it takes zero organization or social skills to queue for solo ranked; you should never expect participation in organized group content to remotely equal participation in ad hoc ad content.

OK, but not 19 times more participation lol. You're just grasping at straws and denying the facts before your very eyes.

Let me give you an example of what an alive group ranked scene would look like. In season 1 there were 9027 characters with 10 or more wins in solo ranked, and 3077 characters with 10 or more wins in group ranked. So solo ranked was about 3 times as active. That seems reasonable.

Now during season 11, solos are roughly 19 times more active on SF, 19.5 times more active on DM, 14 times more active on SS. Those ratios paint group ranked's death pretty clearly. By the way, the ratios get much, much worse if you choose a threshold higher than 10 wins.

1943 with 10 or more wins was just on Star Forge. It's 7679 game-wide. And your definition of "extremely low" is arbitrary. In prime time, solos popped regularly throughout the season. At high points there were multiple games going at once.

 

 

 

OK, but not 19 times more participation lol. You're just grasping at straws and denying the facts before your very eyes.

 

Let me give you an example of what an alive group ranked scene would look like. In season 1 there were 9027 characters with 10 or more wins in solo ranked, and 3077 characters with 10 or more wins in group ranked. So solo ranked was about 3 times as active. That seems reasonable.

 

Now during season 11, solos are roughly 19 times more active on SF, 19.5 times more active on DM, 14 times more active on SS. Those ratios paint group ranked's death pretty clearly.

It's almost like you have zero reading comprehension skills, I literally started this whole conversation about solo vs grouped ranked by stating that you need a massive pool of players for solo ranked ELO to simply work due to the extreme RNG nature of the mode.

Now let me respond to your example, S1 was the best season by far but that was more to do with the fact that teams/players could hide on smaller servers and avoid getting crushed by the "big dogs;" by the end of S1 group ranked on Bastion was dominated by 1-3 teams and most people queue dodged them, POT5 was dominated by 1-2 teams that most people dodged... then low and behold 2 of the bastion teams transferred to POT5 and literally farmed the server to the point that most nights it was those two bastion teams playing vs each other... Solo ranked on POT5 started off with a bang, but very quickly went to **** as a majority of the player base abandoned the game; hell after ~11pm if you queued imp side you were almost always going to be paired vs a pub side queue sync with a hybrid tank and hybrid healer, it was a literal **** show; on some smaller servers by the end of the season it became a struggle to get consistent solo ranked pops... and this was in the most active season the game has ever experienced.

Swtor's ranked scene has always had low participation levels, from pre-season ranked 8's to season 11, and this has always hampered the ability of the ELO system to properly function; there were barely enough consistently active players in one pool for the ELO system to function properly in S1, do you really think it's functional now when you have 250-1000 non-consistent players in a given ranked pool?

Now let me respond to your example, S1 was the best season by far but that was more to do with the fact that teams/players could hide on smaller servers and avoid getting crushed by the "big dogs;" by the end of S1 group ranked on Bastion was dominated by 1-3 teams and most people queue dodged them, POT5 was dominated by 1-2 teams that most people dodged... then low and behold 2 of the bastion teams transferred to POT5 and literally farmed the server to the point that most nights it was those two bastion teams playing vs each other... Solo ranked on POT5 started off with a bang, but very quickly went to **** as a majority of the player base abandoned the game; hell after ~11pm if you queued imp side you were almost always going to be paired vs a pub side queue sync with a hybrid tank and hybrid healer, it was a literal **** show; on some smaller servers by the end of the season it became a struggle to get consistent solo ranked pops... and this was in the most active season the game has ever experienced.

This is just bonkers. Revisionist history always amuses me. I played during season 1 on POT5, a lot. "a majority of the player base abandoned the game" "only getting matched against premades after 11pm" These are obviously absurd statements, not to mention that it's all utterly irrelevant.

Swtor's ranked scene has always had low participation levels, from pre-season ranked 8's to season 11, and this has always hampered the ability of the ELO system to properly function; there were barely enough consistently active players in one pool for the ELO system to function properly in S1, do you really think it's functional now when you have 250-1000 non-consistent players in a given ranked pool?

Season 1 had 9027 solo ranked characters with 10 or more wins. Season 11 had 7679 solo ranked characters with 10 or more wins. And they're concentrated on fewer servers. That's not a huge difference.

And yes, it's more than enough for an elo system to function. I've already told you that characters have elo, not players. There is nothing about elo that requires a "massive pool of players" at any rate.

In a game like swtor, due to the number of variables involved in solo ranked, the important factor is number of games played, not the number of players participating. You need to play in a sizable amount of games to establish a range of elo that is relatively accurate.

He lost basically every round b/c he was playing pt. Anyway, reroll to pt and amuse us all, alright? If its not a glass cannon anymore.

 

I can't wait to see it dominate SR and facetank everybody.

I think youre mistaking losing every game because i was playing pt with, Losing because my team was bad, Theres a huge difference there, Solo ranked is RNG with teams, And getting a bad Team that doesnt focus, follow strats, Doesnt mean a class is bad, You can be a sorc dps and lose because your team is bad, Does that make sorc dps bad too? Your point is null im afraid.

Disappointed.

I only came here for the elephants.

Disappointed.

I only came here for the elephants.

There's a beer called Wet Knot, brewed with a TON of fresh hops, it's one of my favorite all time beers!!

There's a beer called Wet Knot, brewed with a TON of fresh hops, it's one of my favorite all time beers!!

Ha I thought Delirium made that beer at first (pink elephant). I see Four Peaks makes that. Mmmm I love IPA's. I don't think I've had that one. I usually go for old reliable Lagunitas IPA.

Ha I thought Delirium made that beer at first (pink elephant). I see Four Peaks makes that. Mmmm I love IPA's. I don't think I've had that one. I usually go for old reliable Lagunitas IPA.

Lagunitas is pretty good!

Wet knot is a seasonal IPA and only available on tap at 4 peaks pubs. I'm glad to live just down the road from one of them

It's almost like you have zero reading comprehension skills, I literally started this whole conversation about solo vs grouped ranked by stating that you need a massive pool of players for solo ranked ELO to simply work due to the extreme RNG nature of the mode.

 

Now let me respond to your example, S1 was the best season by far but that was more to do with the fact that teams/players could hide on smaller servers and avoid getting crushed by the "big dogs;" by the end of S1 group ranked on Bastion was dominated by 1-3 teams and most people queue dodged them, POT5 was dominated by 1-2 teams that most people dodged... then low and behold 2 of the bastion teams transferred to POT5 and literally farmed the server to the point that most nights it was those two bastion teams playing vs each other... Solo ranked on POT5 started off with a bang, but very quickly went to **** as a majority of the player base abandoned the game; hell after ~11pm if you queued imp side you were almost always going to be paired vs a pub side queue sync with a hybrid tank and hybrid healer, it was a literal **** show; on some smaller servers by the end of the season it became a struggle to get consistent solo ranked pops... and this was in the most active season the game has ever experienced.

 

Swtor's ranked scene has always had low participation levels, from pre-season ranked 8's to season 11, and this has always hampered the ability of the ELO system to properly function; there were barely enough consistently active players in one pool for the ELO system to function properly in S1, do you really think it's functional now when you have 250-1000 non-consistent players in a given ranked pool?

Do you even PvP, bro?

Do you even PvP, bro?

No, Grizz taught me how to Mando RP so that's all I do now o.O

No, Grizz taught me how to Mando RP so that's all I do now o.O

Ew. I know that’s not true. Fando RP is greasy. 😂

Glad to see you’re still around, bro. What server are you on?

People who don't understand how this is a problem clearly don't play ranked. I see this constantly/daily on SS solos. Q's are 3 classes right now...PTs (running MB) , Lightening Sorcs, and Operatives. It won't change before Season 12 starts so either make one of those toons or learn to lose and hope you get the imb4 team. lol

or you could stay away from them when the blueish white stack reachs 7.

Thing is, class balance seems to be designed around two main factors now. Either you're a super resistant class like merc or sniper, or you're a super bursty class with close to zero real resistance whatsoever (PT and Sin as an example).

You could very well demand to nerf the Sin/PT/Oper burst but we'll then end up with the 5.X issue, with class super resistant dominating the meta again. I'm not saying that things should stay as they are, but changing one class because it's too bursty without changing the main reason it became that way is just asking to trash a class because you can't handle it. Imo the whole PvP system needs to be rebalanced, because we've gone too far in the wrong direction for too long.

It's not a question of "one class" being superior. Currently, if you don't have either burst or resistance you'll just get crushed no matter what, which is a bad design to begin with. Try to play a sin without set bonuses in PvP as an example. Good luck for killing anything that isn't a PT, Jugg or another Sin. Removing both the absurd burst of some class as well as the absurd resistance of the rest is what can improve the ranked gameplay, or just the whole PvP system in general.

But that, I think the devs won't do, because they can't reason straight with balance. Reminds me the time of early 5.X when everybody said that merc was stupidly OP, due to all the defensive cooldown it had. Bioware decided to nerf mercs damage in answer to that. Not the stupid defensives, the damage, which had nothing to do with what peoples were mad about.

In 6.X they've gone the same way, buffing the damage of what was previously "medium-tier" or "bottom-tier" class instead of nerfing what made merc and sniper top tier in 5.X, because they have no clue about what's good or not

TL;DR : Peoples shouldn't demand a nerf of one class, but a nerf for roughly every class, because we're all too OP in our own ways.

Thing is, class balance seems to be designed around two main factors now. Either you're a super resistant class like merc or sniper, or you're a super bursty class with close to zero real resistance whatsoever (PT and Sin as an example).

You could very well demand to nerf the Sin/PT/Oper burst but we'll then end up with the 5.X issue, with class super resistant dominating the meta again. I'm not saying that things should stay as they are, but changing one class because it's too bursty without changing the main reason it became that way is just asking to trash a class because you can't handle it. Imo the whole PvP system needs to be rebalanced, because we've gone too far in the wrong direction for too long.

 

It's not a question of "one class" being superior. Currently, if you don't have either burst or resistance you'll just get crushed no matter what, which is a bad design to begin with. Try to play a sin without set bonuses in PvP as an example. Good luck for killing anything that isn't a PT, Jugg or another Sin. Removing both the absurd burst of some class as well as the absurd resistance of the rest is what can improve the ranked gameplay, or just the whole PvP system in general.

 

But that, I think the devs won't do, because they can't reason straight with balance. Reminds me the time of early 5.X when everybody said that merc was stupidly OP, due to all the defensive cooldown it had. Bioware decided to nerf mercs damage in answer to that. Not the stupid defensives, the damage, which had nothing to do with what peoples were mad about.

 

In 6.X they've gone the same way, buffing the damage of what was previously "medium-tier" or "bottom-tier" class instead of nerfing what made merc and sniper top tier in 5.X, because they have no clue about what's good or not

 

TL;DR : Peoples shouldn't demand a nerf of one class, but a nerf for roughly every class, because we're all too OP in our own ways.

Nerfing Scoundrel class will in turn nerf Ruffian which doesn’t need one. Scrapper does. It’s gotten to the point where I stopped fighting Volatile Strikers and Death Knellers cause there is no point. And 80% of the time they just /laugh when they’re just toxic.

Ruffian has basically no defense other than self healing which is meager at most. Attack power is weak as well, especially against classes that can cleanse DoTs in PvP. We’re only good in AoE damage (and it’s kinda meh) in 6.0, even then we’re still outclassed by other classes. There’s a reason why you don’t see many these days. Ruffian doesn’t need a nerf in it’s current state.

Thing is, class balance seems to be designed around two main factors now. Either you're a super resistant class like merc or sniper, or you're a super bursty class with close to zero real resistance whatsoever (PT and Sin as an example).

You could very well demand to nerf the Sin/PT/Oper burst but we'll then end up with the 5.X issue, with class super resistant dominating the meta again. I'm not saying that things should stay as they are, but changing one class because it's too bursty without changing the main reason it became that way is just asking to trash a class because you can't handle it. Imo the whole PvP system needs to be rebalanced, because we've gone too far in the wrong direction for too long.

 

It's not a question of "one class" being superior. Currently, if you don't have either burst or resistance you'll just get crushed no matter what, which is a bad design to begin with. Try to play a sin without set bonuses in PvP as an example. Good luck for killing anything that isn't a PT, Jugg or another Sin. Removing both the absurd burst of some class as well as the absurd resistance of the rest is what can improve the ranked gameplay, or just the whole PvP system in general.

 

But that, I think the devs won't do, because they can't reason straight with balance. Reminds me the time of early 5.X when everybody said that merc was stupidly OP, due to all the defensive cooldown it had. Bioware decided to nerf mercs damage in answer to that. Not the stupid defensives, the damage, which had nothing to do with what peoples were mad about.

 

In 6.X they've gone the same way, buffing the damage of what was previously "medium-tier" or "bottom-tier" class instead of nerfing what made merc and sniper top tier in 5.X, because they have no clue about what's good or not

 

TL;DR : Peoples shouldn't demand a nerf of one class, but a nerf for roughly every class, because we're all too OP in our own ways.

PTs are glass canons. They have great burst potential, but are still squishy.

Conc ops and dec sins are not weak defensively. Sins get two stealth outs and heal to fulls now, at least. Not to mention their ability to swap tacticals out of combat and offguard. You basically have to kill a sin 3 times, once to force the first stealth out, once to force the second stealth out, and then a final time. If the sin is smart about when it engages from stealth each time, combined with their incredible damage, they are extremely difficult to deal with now. And if you choose to ignore the sin, then they can simply and easily offguard a teammate to great effect.

And if there are multiple ops and sins on one team, forget about it. It's just a nonstop carousel of burst and stealth outs, forcing you to constantly switch targets. Unless one or more of them are straight up bad, they will secure a kill on you before you can on them.

As always, I'm not saying they necessarily need nerfs (we'll see), but sins and ops are undeniably the two strongest classes right now.

Do you even PvP, bro?

Nice to see old timers still lurking. Seeing old forum names brings a nostalgic tear to my eye.

It's almost like you have zero reading comprehension skills...

Alexsamma, I remember ages ago you had a lengthy back-and-forth over PVP stuff with a real noob on the forums. You even agreed to meet them in the game for some fun gamesmanship.

The noob came away with a different impression of you. He learned you were very knowledgeable about the game especially PVP and that you were a good dude.

Maybe you ought to repeat and show the same respect to Jedi Al. It's weird, but sometimes removing ourselves from the forum environment and socializing in the game, even for just a few minutes can have a beneficial impact on us even when our debating might make it seem impossible.

BTW, I didn't realize till just now that both you and Jedi Al have the name "Alex" in your forum names. That must be weird. It would be like me debating with another poster named Jedimasterlhance. lol

Nice to see old timers still lurking. Seeing old forum names brings a nostalgic tear to my eye.

 

 

 

 

Alexsamma, I remember ages ago you had a lengthy back-and-forth over PVP stuff with a real noob on the forums. You even agreed to meet them in the game for some fun gamesmanship.

 

The noob came away with a different impression of you. He learned you were very knowledgeable about the game especially PVP and that you were a good dude.

 

Maybe you ought to repeat and show the same respect to Jedi Al. It's weird, but sometimes removing ourselves from the forum environment and socializing in the game, even for just a few minutes can have a beneficial impact on us even when our debating might make it seem impossible.

 

BTW, I didn't realize till just now that both you and Jedi Al have the name "Alex" in your forum names. That must be weird. It would be like me debating with another poster named Jedimasterlhance. lol

Likewise. I’m glad to see you’re still about. Nostalgic indeed!

...but, I’m just getting warmed up. Once I’m settled, going to get some things going again for the community. ❤️

Likewise. I’m glad to see you’re still about. Nostalgic indeed!

 

...but, I’m just getting warmed up. Once I’m settled, going to get some things going again for the community. ❤️

Will you have your guild still running?

Will you have your guild still running?

For sure!