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Is It Time To Get Rid of Ranked for Good?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Is It Time To Get Rid of Ranked for Good?

sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
05.05.2019 , 06:18 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I mean, I personally think whichever thread was started later was likely a consequence of the first...
It's not. It's actually a culmination of the handling of ranked cheating/wintrading threads and in-game experiences over the past few months.

It's a natural conclusion from my point of view.

As for the other thread you mention, I read the OP when it was created, found it pretty humorous/absurd, and haven't checked in ever since.
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sharkfishman
05.05.2019 , 06:19 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Most probably. But aren’t they both one and the same? The only difference is one poses a question and the other makes a statement in the titles.
If you think this, I wonder how well you read the OP in this thread or the other.
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TrixxieTriss
05.05.2019 , 06:30 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
If you think this, I wonder how well you read the OP in this thread or the other.
Actually I did. And yes they are different, but both threads could essentially be one because they have a similar theme.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have 2 threads. Sometimes that’s needed to split the discussion or to bring more attention to the topic.

All I did was agree with Kendra that one thread probably spun out of the other.

I do understand your point of view, I don’t agree with your conclusion that ranked should go. I think you can see I agree with you that cheating in the game, especially ranked ,is bad and there are difficulties in eliminating wintrading. But that doesn’t mean you throw out the concept. It just means Bioware need to step up and find a fix to mitigate it better.

I dont know if you watched/listened to Snave & Co’s Discussion on ranked a month or so ago. They had some really good ideas on how to mitigate the cheating. I especially liked the idea they had on how to punish the cheaters.

We shouldn’t throw out the whole barrel of apples because of a few bad ones. There are more legitimate players than these few cheaters.

There are ways Bioware can go to fix the problem. It comes down to, do they have the will and resources to do it? If they don’t or won’t, then maybe it is time to reassess the situation.

But... and here’s the reason I’m saying not yet... at no time in the last 5 years have we had someone from Bioware actively engage the community on this topic. Sure Musco has chimed in at the end of a season, but not at the start and not reported actions they took.

I’m willing to give Mike the benefit of the doubt till season 11 ends. It’s either fixed or they show they’ve made a serious effort to do something as well as being transparent. If not, then I’m on your side regarding solo ranked. If it comes to that, then my suggestion is they just turn solo ranked into reg arena and remove arena from 8v8 queue.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
05.05.2019 , 06:36 PM | #14
From my perspective things can't get worse. BW has nothing to lose when it comes to ranked.

That being said they should not get rid of it, instead just renovate the entire scoring system! It could only freshen things up, adding change alone would be beneficial to the ranked environment.

I believe features in a game including different game modes is good, so removing ranked wouldn't help anything. After all, it's completely voluntary if a player participates in ranked or not. For those who dislike ranked they can simply ignore it.

Ranked should be renovated, not removed.
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.05.2019 , 06:51 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
From my perspective things can't get worse. BW has nothing to lose when it comes to ranked.

That being said they should not get rid of it, instead just renovate the entire scoring system! It could only freshen things up, adding change alone would be beneficial to the ranked environment.

I believe features in a game including different game modes is good, so removing ranked wouldn't help anything. After all, it's completely voluntary if a player participates in ranked or not. For those who dislike ranked they can simply ignore it.

Ranked should be renovated, not removed.
Agreed.

And removing it should always be the last resort to fixing the problem. Look how many people we lost when they removed 8v8 ranked. Lots of pvp guilds just died or up and left the game, I don’t think the pvp population could deal with that happening again.

sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
05.05.2019 , 07:55 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Actually I did. And yes they are different, but both threads could essentially be one because they have a similar theme.
Both threads present totally different solutions to totally different problems. The other thread is about how to motivate players to play objectives. That is not the purpose of this thread in the least.

The other thread is about forcing everyone to play ranked, turning current systems into the deeply flawed ranked scoring/rewards system. That is literally THE OPPOSITE of every point I have made. Again, might want to check your reading a little, lol.

As for your "bad apples" analogy, it doesn't fit this case. There are more than 2 or 3 people wintrading and cheating every season. Part is because they want to cheat, but a large part is the way the ranked system is set up, the way it rewards, what part of gameplay it specifically rewards, the type of rewards it offers, who it rewards, how it scores advancement and the audience it appears catered to vs. what the devs have stated as its intended audience.

Put simply, ranked is flawed from the core. Unless it's supposed to be an e-Sport. If the devs intend that, then they can keep everything as is and simply increase spending on anti-wintrading measures for the HUGE COMMUNITY (sarcasm) that loyally plays ranked due to these underlying issues.

If that's not their intent, then a lot of things need to change about its structure, randomness and design.
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sharkfishman
05.05.2019 , 08:05 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
From my perspective things can't get worse. BW has nothing to lose when it comes to ranked.

That being said they should not get rid of it, instead just renovate the entire scoring system! It could only freshen things up, adding change alone would be beneficial to the ranked environment.

I believe features in a game including different game modes is good, so removing ranked wouldn't help anything. After all, it's completely voluntary if a player participates in ranked or not. For those who dislike ranked they can simply ignore it.

Ranked should be renovated, not removed.
I agree it needs changing.

The question is, what is ranked really about?

Did the devs design it to reward the best of the best of the best with exclusive items, leaving a majority of their subscribers out of the picture? Is it supposed to entice subscribers to actually play it?

My feeling is that adding subscriber-exclusive rewards to all PVP may be closer to what they actually intended, and appeal to a much wider player base, while making it harder for wintraders and cheaters to gain anything significantly more valuable than everyone has available.

If that's not the case, I'll support any change made to ranked scoring, but I don't think it solves the underlying problem of bad design.

It's like if they decided to limit all rewards in operations to NiM raiders only. Doesn't sound smart to me, but I guess it's their game. At least NiM raiders would have to play legit, since there's no wintrading in PVE, lol.
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TrixxieTriss
05.05.2019 , 08:37 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
Both threads present totally different solutions to totally different problems. The other thread is about how to motivate players to play objectives. That is not the purpose of this thread in the least.

The other thread is about forcing everyone to play ranked, turning current systems into the deeply flawed ranked scoring/rewards system. That is literally THE OPPOSITE of every point I have made. Again, might want to check your reading a little, lol.

As for your "bad apples" analogy, it doesn't fit this case. There are more than 2 or 3 people wintrading and cheating every season. Part is because they want to cheat, but a large part is the way the ranked system is set up, the way it rewards, what part of gameplay it specifically rewards, the type of rewards it offers, who it rewards, how it scores advancement and the audience it appears catered to vs. what the devs have stated as its intended audience.

Put simply, ranked is flawed from the core. Unless it's supposed to be an e-Sport. If the devs intend that, then they can keep everything as is and simply increase spending on anti-wintrading measures for the HUGE COMMUNITY (sarcasm) that loyally plays ranked due to these underlying issues.

If that's not their intent, then a lot of things need to change about its structure, randomness and design.
Wow, I tried to get you to see my point of view and I acknowledged yours as valid. But it seems you are stuck on this path that ranked needs to go. I tried offering solutions or reasons to fix it, but not you?

I guess there’s nothing more to say because you have a chip on your shoulder about ranked. Nothing anyone, especially me, will obviously change your mind.

So that means the thread wasn’t a question as to wether it should be removed, but more along the lines of “ranked has problems, there is no fix, just remove it” and you were only looking for people to support your point of view. You didn’t want to have a discussion about it.

You are of course allowed to voice that opinion, but you don’t speak for us in saying it should be removed and that is why I gave a counter point.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.05.2019 , 09:02 PM | #19
I’d like to also clear up a fallacy that the ranked community is so small or not many people play it.

There are currently 12210 characters listed as playing ranked in season 11 (not including the cheats who’ve been caught and have a ranking of 1).

Even if 50% of those are first timers who don’t return or mat farmers, thats still leaves 6105 characters.

Let’s say players have 3 Alts (even though a lot just have one due to the ridiculous gearing). That’s 2035 individual players.

Obviously I cannot know wether 50% are first timers or mat farmers or how many Alts people have. But even on my over estimated guess work, you can see it’s not a small number and I would hazard a guess it is much higher than that.

A more conservative number is more likely 65-75% of characters are really there to play ranked. And people probably only have 1-3 Alts. You are then looking at over 3000-4000+ actual ranked players.

sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
05.05.2019 , 09:20 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Wow, I tried to get you to see my point of view and I acknowledged yours as valid. But it seems you are stuck on this path that ranked needs to go. I tried offering solutions or reasons to fix it, but not you?

It's my point of view. You're welcome to express yours, but why should I have to change mine to conform to yours?

I guess there’s nothing more to say because you have a chip on your shoulder about ranked. Nothing anyone, especially me, will obviously change your mind.

This is completely false. I have no "chip on my shoulder." I have an opinion, which you seem intent on turning into an emotional argument.

So that means the thread wasn’t a question as to wether it should be removed, but more along the lines of “ranked has problems, there is no fix, just remove it” and you were only looking for people to support your point of view. You didn’t want to have a discussion about it.

I stated in the OP that the question was for the devs. I couldn't care less whether you support my view or not, since the purpose of the thread was to ask the devs what their point of view/vision is. Don't confuse dismissing the lack of basis of your arguments (i.e. we disagree fundamentally that stopping wintrading using the resources the devs have is even possible) with not wanting to have a discussion. I'm perfectly calm (maybe you are too, it's hard to tell with forum posts). You can continue to express your POV all you want, and I will continue to point out the parts I disagree with.

You are of course allowed to voice that opinion, but you don’t speak for us in saying it should be removed and that is why I gave a counter point.
This is a total strawman (you seem good at those). I never claimed to speak for you, and never indicated you couldn't give a counter point. I merely said that your comparison of two threads was entirely erroneous. Your welcome to continue expressing your opinion as much as you want. In fact, that's even better for the devs. More ideas are better, even if I personally disagree with your conclusions strongly.
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