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Let's Talk Win Trading...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Let's Talk Win Trading...
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
03.03.2019 , 06:50 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Keeping it secret or not making it publically available means it’s no deterrent to cheating.

Other games publically announce what their policies are and even say when they do a sweep to catch the cheats.

99% of the time the other game companies perma ban the accounts (close them). Bioware is the only game I know that doesn’t do that to cheats (especially repeat offenders).

If they want to curb the cheating in this game, they need to have harsher policies (preferably zero tolerance with perma bans) and they need to publically announce what the penalties are for cheating.
IMO, they should also announce after theyve done a sweep up of the cheats to tell us it’s happened and approximately how many they perma banned.

Cheating will only stop when Bioware change their policy to something like this ^^

No deterrent = people don’t care = people who wouldn’t normally cheat, will cheat to keep up with the “Jones”
They would need to ban people for substantial periods of time and permanently if the player continued the behavior after already being punished for there to be any chance of deterring cheating.

The problem is they seem incapable of banning people or catching them on a regular basis. Catching up to the cheaters at the end of the season is too little too late because thousands of games have been ruined by that point.

The one big problem BW faces is the fact it's too easy to cheat their scoring system for ranked. As long as you can win trade and get top rating within an hour or less (or however minimal time it is that it takes) cheaters will continue cheating.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
03.03.2019 , 06:52 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Keeping it secret or not making it publically available means it’s no deterrent to cheating.
BS - you have a rule and a consequence. you state the rule and the consequence. you do not need to single out individuals. I really don't care what other games do. they won't ever single out players in this one. it's core to the game. you can't even name someone on the forum. you know this. and it's superfluous to do so at any rate as long as the rules and requisite punishments are clearly stated. but when you hide names AND punishments, everything becomes shady af.
Krack

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
03.03.2019 , 07:09 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
They would need to ban people for substantial periods of time and permanently if the player continued the behavior after already being punished for there to be any chance of deterring cheating.

The problem is they seem incapable of banning people or catching them on a regular basis. Catching up to the cheaters at the end of the season is too little too late because thousands of games have been ruined by that point.

The one big problem BW faces is the fact it's too easy to cheat their scoring system for ranked. As long as you can win trade and get top rating within an hour or less, cheaters will continue cheating.
Not sure if it’s changed in the last 3-4 years, but I had a guy in our guild who was quitting the game and wanted to prove to a bunch of hack deniers that hacking was indeed possible.

So he got a speed hack from some where and used it at max speed (so it stood out and the system caught him). He got a warning. The next day he did it again and got a 24 hour ban and told not to do it again. I think it took him 5-6 goes to finally get a 6 month ban.

I now wish I’d kept that Facebook account so I could show you the Bioware correspondence with him. All harsh words with a slap on the wrist. Even after all of that he got his account back 6 months later.

One thing that was interesting is he proved through testing that you could indeed use the speed hack on really low settings and not get caught. I’m not sure what the cut off was till the auto system realised it was a hack, but it wasn’t really high.
This same thing happens with other hacks in the game and most people can’t tell the difference until someone blatantly over does it with the hacks settings.

Lately I’ve started to play ranked again and I can say it’s so different to regs. There is no hacking, exploiting or lag switching (that I’ve seen... yet). Where as lately I’ve seen a bit going on in regs (even lowbie arena ).

All I can conclude from that, is the cheaters are scared to use them in ranked because players there should know all the class abilities and mechanics and they would be able to tell more easily if someone is cheating.
Either that or they are so bad (which is why they cheat in regs) and know their cheating wouldn’t help them in ranked.

My experience with this phenomenon over 7 years, proves that Bioware’s cheating policy is pointless and has zero deterrent factor. It’s time they woke up and changed it.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
03.03.2019 , 07:19 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
BS - you have a rule and a consequence. you state the rule and the consequence. you do not need to single out individuals. I really don't care what other games do. they won't ever single out players in this one. it's core to the game. you can't even name someone on the forum. you know this. and it's superfluous to do so at any rate as long as the rules and requisite punishments are clearly stated. but when you hide names AND punishments, everything becomes shady af.
You miss interpreted what I said. Maybe I didn’t explain it properly

I’m not advocating a name and shame policy or announcing each individual ban for cheating.

When I refer to “sweep” I mean when Bioware catch a whole bunch of people at once or over a period of time and then say they caught x amount of people and they’ve taken the appropriate action (based on their policy)

Here is an example of Blizzard banning hackers

Quote:
”More than 20,000 Overwatch players have been banned in South Korea, a representative for Blizzard Entertainment announced on the game’s forum. The reason for the bans is “unauthorized use of third-party programs,” otherwise known as illegal hacks.”
Source : https://www.polygon.com/2017/2/2/144...korean-hackers
I wanted to show the official Blizzard statement, but I dont read Korean. If you do, here is the link https://kr.battle.net/forums/ko/over...pic/4563416302

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
03.03.2019 , 07:43 PM | #25
indeed. I read name and shame.
Krack

BRKMSN's Avatar


BRKMSN
03.03.2019 , 11:58 PM | #26
When a system is so easy to manipulate and so hard to prevent or deter manipulation, you have to look at the system as the biggest problem.

Obviously the current system stresses winning above all else. In order to not discourage players your best ranking over a short duration of time is all that matters. Together, those 2 factors lead to all the win trading that currently exists. It also promotes a toxic environment that discourages people from participating.

Every sport has teams that may be bad teams, yet still have one of the best players in that league at his or her position. So unless ranked matches are 1 vs 1 matches, the current criteria that ranks us here is pretty stupid.
We have a zero tolerance policy for intolerance of any kind.

fabsus's Avatar


fabsus
03.04.2019 , 02:52 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by LinkinPein View Post
Awesome, I can finally address you.

Let me expose your big yellow lie for what it is: a big damage control attempt to sweep it all under the rug, just like Season 9. Do you remember ''zero-tolerance''? We all do. [...]
exactly my opinion, too.
same sh*t, different day.
honestly guys! it is no rocket science.

search and mark logfiles, flag reported legacy for further investigations,
change the report tool, to report a player by choice, not in a free text.

the only excuse i see is, that you don't have enough people to do so.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion.
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merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
03.04.2019 , 03:03 AM | #28
Dear Mike,

I am glad that Bioware really takes this stuff seriously. You posting here proves that Eric really did mean what he said with that "no tolerance" post.

Of course there is much to be done. We can cry here about how there was no action, people got unbanned, so many seasons went by with cheaters winning etc, but there is no point, we need to draw a line and start from 0 (would be good to still sort season 10). As for punisment I would suggest pernament bann, with comments left at the account that there is no unbann option. I know quite a few who got perma banned and lost their account and still they made a new account and play now, which proves the fact that if people love the game they still keep on playing (no loss of profit) with new accounts.

But an important thing is what to actually look for. You have mentioned the easy and obvious stuff. Good, but please also consider what Matthias mentioned: when you purposly throw games on an alt when you are in a match with your top 3 competitor for example. That one will be quite hard., but until we get there we have that wintrading (by people and bots) to take care of first.
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Iveryn's Avatar


Iveryn
03.04.2019 , 04:59 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
As for punisment I would suggest pernament bann, with comments left at the account that there is no unbann option.
Do you really want to get perma banned?

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
03.04.2019 , 08:34 AM | #30
IDK how you can tell a player that throws the match from one that is truly awful or just inexperienced

I've seen quite a number of poor players get yelled at and threatened with reporting for throwing.

I've also witnessed a few people who got flamed so hard by another team-mate that they quit the match. That could be construed as throwing - but if you force someone out of the arena, but stay on and lose - it's the same result - letting the other team win since its suddenly 3v4.

If BioWare are serious about wintrading, they need to be there on the ground and witness 1st hand what goes on. Considering banning someone who has a long losing streak might just indicate that they're just not cut out for Ranked.
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