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Unassembled Components in 6.0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Unassembled Components in 6.0
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DNGDangerous's Avatar


DNGDangerous
02.27.2019 , 03:01 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
What is this elusive 6.0 you are speaking of ?

Let me spin this around, how would you want to see gear acquired via PvP in a large future update, such as an expansion? Should it be via a commendation system (UCs, PvP tokens, etc)? Should it be drops from boxes? Mission rewards? Yes?

As I said in another thread, discussion are actively on going on not only what new gear will look like, but how it will be acquired. So weigh in on how you see UCs in the future, if at all.

-eric
I liked when PVP gear was granted via warzone commendations... I want my old Warzone Commendations returned... as well as my old Ranked Warzone Commendations...

please return to that system!

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
02.27.2019 , 03:02 PM | #22
1: Remove loot boxes. That stuff is not fun and never was.
2: Unbind mods and enhancements from armor sets. What the devs believe is BiS in PvE is not BiS in PvP.
3: Bring back the ability to purchase mods and enhancements. This includes ones like B mods and high endurance enhancements. Have them cost a crystal each or something but allow us to play around with what we feel fits our style.

Metthew's Avatar


Metthew
02.27.2019 , 03:05 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
2: Unbind mods and enhancements from armor sets. What the devs believe is BiS in PvE is not BiS in PvP.
It essentially is though. You want to swap accuracy out for crit, which you can do by buying healer boots / gloves (you can buy them on any class, just change vendor view settings). If you want a high alacrity build, you go alacrity implants/earpiece, and you sort the rest with augments, etc. etc.
Erhart / Wilhemine | Darth Malgus | <Take a Seat>

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
02.27.2019 , 03:37 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Metthew View Post
It essentially is though. You want to swap accuracy out for crit, which you can do by buying healer boots / gloves (you can buy them on any class, just change vendor view settings). If you want a high alacrity build, you go alacrity implants/earpiece, and you sort the rest with augments, etc. etc.
I thought this was not true. I don't have any 252/258 gear yet, because reasons. But, take for example, the way I geared up my PvP tank (in 230s). I wanted to get rid of the defense stat completely. So I bought both the tank and the dps version of pretty much everything. Then in my gear I put in the tank armoring/hilt, and the dps mods and enhancements. I thought with 252/258 gear, that is not possible?

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

Metthew's Avatar


Metthew
02.27.2019 , 03:47 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
I thought this was not true. I don't have any 252/258 gear yet, because reasons. But, take for example, the way I geared up my PvP tank (in 230s). I wanted to get rid of the defense stat completely. So I bought both the tank and the dps version of pretty much everything. Then in my gear I put in the tank armoring/hilt, and the dps mods and enhancements. I thought with 252/258 gear, that is not possible?
Oh yeah, tank gearing right now is utter crap. However, what you're describing is totally possible still: you can buy a full tank gear, full dps gear, then transfer mods and enhancements from DPS gear to tank gear, piece by piece. The only restriction is that you need to do it boot to boot, gloves to gloves, etc.

The problem with the current system is the length of the grind, it takes a ridiculous amount of effort to get 2x 258 gear for your tank to make the PVP tanking set. You'd need DPS weapon, tank shield, DPS offhand (so you can move mod/enh from it), DPS armor, tank armor, healer gloves/boots (to replace accuracy in DPS armor with crit rating), relics, implants and earpiece. That's quite a lot of crystals you need to get.

Just another reason they should make PVP stat allocation through some menu instead of some grind IMHO - coming back to my suggestion at the first page. It shouldn't take as much effort to gear both a PVE tank and a PVE dps, just to gear up one PVP tank. In fact, there should not be a gearing barrier to it at all.
Erhart / Wilhemine | Darth Malgus | <Take a Seat>

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
02.27.2019 , 03:54 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Metthew View Post
... - why should choosing stats before going into Warzones / Arenas need a grind?
My first preference would be this type of thing.

Another way to do it, I think, would be going into PvP, max out our gear. I think everything we put into our gear is "named" things with ever increasing power. My main is in 248s. She has, for example, a saber with versatile hilt 52, lethal mod 52, adept enhancement 52, superior versatile augment 46 (and a crystal of course). When I got into PvP, why not just temporarily increase these to the 258 level version of all those things (and whatever the max level augment is)?

That way we could allocate stats whatever way we wanted with lower level gear, and there would be no "what's bolster doing to my stats" stuff to figure out.

If bioware is unwilling or unable, whatever, to max gear for PvP, then at least bolster should WORK. As we tested, the main hand bolster is either bugged, or you never intended that to bolster for some odd reason. That by itself (nevermind 252 v. 258) costs about 10-15% in basic damage potential, which seems like way too much.

And if we have to grind gear for PvP... I liked the relatively short grind we could do back when we had expertise. Coupled with the fact that leveling via PvP counted towards the grind.

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

Costello's Avatar


Costello
02.27.2019 , 03:57 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
What is this elusive 6.0 you are speaking of ?

Let me spin this around, how would you want to see gear acquired via PvP in a large future update, such as an expansion? Should it be via a commendation system (UCs, PvP tokens, etc)? Should it be drops from boxes? Mission rewards? Yes?

As I said in another thread, discussion are actively on going on not only what new gear will look like, but how it will be acquired. So weigh in on how you see UCs in the future, if at all.

-eric
When you dropped Expertise I thought this was going to be an amazing thing, a prelude to open world PvP, or at least making PvP more inclusive where you didn't have to have second set of armor with different stats to enjoy PvP, or for that matter if you liked PvPing you didn't have to have a second set to enjoy PvE.

So it seemed a good move, that both play styles have the same rewards. However very little was ever done with it, we never saw open world objective PvP, people found PvP was an easier way to gear up cause win or lose you got a reward while wiping to Op bosses resulted in nothing, so it created Afk PvP or people being happy to throw matches.

What I think about the future of gearing. Enough.

Sodding well Enough new gear grinds. You are going to go for a new gear grind every bloody update? Enough mistaking a gear grind with content, enough thinking people will just keep subscribing for the next gear grind.

Find an alternative end game advancement method, introduce an end game advancement system, much like Legacy could have been or Command Ranks would be if they did more than just offer boxes of now junk gear. As it stands if you introduce a new gear grind in the next update, what content will there have been for people to enjoy their 258 gear, was it really just a pointless gear grind to waste peoples time?

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
02.27.2019 , 03:57 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Metthew View Post
Just another reason they should make PVP stat allocation through some menu ...
Oh right, I just realized why this is better than my suggestion of maxing out gear (if my suggestion would even work - I may have missed some stupid thing)... with your way no one would need two sets of gear. Ok, I like your way better.

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

Trauglodyte's Avatar


Trauglodyte
02.27.2019 , 03:57 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
What is this elusive 6.0 you are speaking of ?

Let me spin this around, how would you want to see gear acquired via PvP in a large future update, such as an expansion? Should it be via a commendation system (UCs, PvP tokens, etc)? Should it be drops from boxes? Mission rewards? Yes?

As I said in another thread, discussion are actively on going on not only what new gear will look like, but how it will be acquired. So weigh in on how you see UCs in the future, if at all.

-eric
I appreciate the question, Eric.

There are three types of people in MMOs.

- Pure PvE people that want to do nothing but kill e-monsters for stuff
- Pure PvP people that want to kill pixelated people for fame (and stuff)
- Hybrids that dabble in a bit of both

In SWTOR, there is a grindy system for PvE gear. Back in the old days, there was a grindy system for PvP gear. That PvP grind was necessary because the balance team understood that each side needed their own shiney baulbel to chase. Then, at some point while I was away, that got taken away and a universal grind was introduced, on top of PvE content, for gear.

I can't speak for everyone so I'll speak for myself. I want to earn gear via PvP and PvP alone. I don't want my PvP gear to allow me to gear jump the pure PvE players. I want to hack and slash and pew pew my way into PvP only gear and I want that process to have multiple sets so that I can strive for, attain, and show off my (no joke) l33t skillz.

Pixel gear, in MMOs, is about recognition, pride, and bragging rights. In the current system, you've catered to one side of the fence. I get the "why". But, and I'm again not speaking for everyone, I don't want to have to play Starfighter to get currency to get gear that is both PvP and PvE. I don't want to run Ops and 4 man instances for currency to buy gear that is both PvP and PvE. I want to PvP for gear that:

- makes me a better PvP player
- make me equal to a player in greens for PvE
- isn't a step below PvE players in PvE gear that are playing PvP (why do they get the edge?)

You're gearing system should be built so that e-monster killers get the most out of what they enjoy the most. You're gearing system should let hybrids do both and be semi-sort of ok in their mix of mish mash gear, knowing full well that "grey" isn't a good choice but accepting that they'll get by. You're gearing system should let PvPers focus on their arena (PUN!!!) without muddying up the water - do you know how much it sucks to retool key bindings to switch between the two environments?

Two gearing systems is perfect and, really, the 1.0 gearing system for PvP was a dream because it was all inclusive for everyone that played the game AND it still kept PvPers out of hard core PvE content, because having Expertise on gear was a stat drawback and the set bonuses did nothing to enhance the ability to kill e-monsters.

Personally, this is what I would do:

#1 - Build two sets of armor and let PvPers go back to buying gear with warzone accommodations
#2 - Bolster DOWN to a gear level slightly below max PvE (ie, 252 or whatever); PvE players are in our arena and shouldn't have an edge in stats
#3 - Keep the Warzone Expertise buff but reduce it
#4 - Add Expertise back to PvP gear but at a rate that wouldn't exceed the current Expertise buff (when combined with the buff and gear)
#5 - Unhook PvP from all other aspects of the game BUT introduce mass amounts of achievement fluff (titles, pets, mounts, "apartment gear", etc.)

PvP is there for people to blow off some steam, enjoy the game in a different way, and for pure PvP people to have end game content. PvE is largely gated, due to people and skill. PvP can be enjoyed by anyone at any time. Forcing people, that enjoy PvP, to undertake the treadmill of the other aspects of the game, isn't a great business model, imo. Let's go back to 1.0 and you'll see people flooding back into WarZones
To die is simply to end the cycle of pain!

kodrac's Avatar


kodrac
02.27.2019 , 03:57 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Drop the same gear in PvP that you award for PvE - there's no reason we need PvP specific gear. Limit the amount we can get from PvP the very same way you do with PvE - with Weekly missions and limited numbers of whatever the new currency will be.

Use Ossus as a template:
50 Solo Ranked Points OR HM Queen Kill
Weekly 10 PvP matches for a loot RNG box OR 10 Heroic missions on Ossus = 1 crystal
500 UC's = 1 crystal (already in-game, equal for PvPers and PvEers)
Weekly PvP mission (20) OR 2 Ossus WB's = 1 crystal

Make PvP a viable alternative to gear, but it would be a PvE OR PvP thing, much like you're doing now, which limits the amount of gear a player can get and it doesn't allow players to 'double dip' in PvP and PvE.
Totally agree here with TUXs. Also why did the mod staff move this to PvP? You'll never find your way back to it now.
Quote: Originally Posted by aerockyul View Post
Id find it hard to believe this sort of thing goes on in the preferential treatment forum.