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Guild invasion rewards don't seem fair

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Guild invasion rewards don't seem fair

CaptainObvius's Avatar


CaptainObvius
06.23.2019 , 06:07 PM | #1
Should you really have to be in a guild to make more money or have more powerful characters?

I don't think so. Maybe I'm just crazy. I've always felt guilds were supposed to be there to join some friends, find people like you to play with and have people you can rely on when you want to do game content with players of appropriate skill levels.

What I don't think guilds should ever be is a way to make more in game credits or get more loot which results in more powerful characters.

What do I mean by this? Let's look at 2 players.

Player A:
Is in a big guild.
Guild invades a large yield planet.
Gets capped on 6 characters a week for conquest.

Player B:
Is not in a build guild.
Doesn't invade a planet.
Also gets capped on 6 characters a week for conquest.

Both players have essentially put the same amount of time in. Both are equally as 'successful' as the other. Neither in effects has out done the other in any way shape or form. Everything is 100% exactly equal except one is in a guild and one is not. So what do they get?

Player A gets:
6x 50,000 credits
18 SRM's
90 Jawa Junk
12 CMT's (valued at 1-2 mil each on the market, but also used to create powerful augments)

Play B gets:
None of the above. Absolutely nothing for his time and efforts. A big fat sign that says "Either get into a big guild or don't even bother worrying about conquest".

Wait a minute here. Both players put the same amount of time into the game. They both capped 6 characters conquest and one gets 20-30mil worth of goodies and 300k credits and the other player gets NOTHING?

Like REALLY?

All because what? One guy is in a big fancy guild and the other isn't?

Well maybe I'm alone in this but I feel like this is just absolutely insane and crazy.

Now I understand they want to like make a way for guilds to compete against each other. That's all well and good sure I'm all for that. However I absolutely cannot agree with how they are rewarding it. And I certainly don't agree with the way it is now in that you're either in a guild, or ur screwed. Like wow. Just wow.

You know I'm one of the few people who hates rewarding failure in that when you lose a PvP match I think you should get NOTHING! But that's because that would make people actually want to care about winning and not just afk'ing matches and getting half the rewards even if you lose. So I can already see people with the thought that "Well this guild 'won' over that guild, or no guild'.

That being said I feel like if Player B puts the same amount of effort and time doing the same things Player A did, they should be rewarded equally at the end of the week. Guild or no guild. I don't feel like people should feel the need to HAVE to join a guild, or all pile into the 'big' guilds in order to be just as rewarded every week for the same amount of effort other players put into the game. I think people should feel free to play with whatever guild they like, small or big, and get just as many credits and augments as anyone else putting as much time as them into the game.

Pick something else for the rewards of invading a planet. Cosmetics. Cartel certs. Decorations. So many other things you can give out other than tons of credits and rewards to make augments.

As a side note I'd like to say I think it's even silly you have to cap conquest on different characters. I think you should lock the rewards down to legacy. Why should Bioware care if I get 90k conquest on 1 character or 6?

Maybe I"m crazy and alone on this but hey that's how I feel about it.

Edit:

If you don't want to read through 26 pages let me sum it up for you.

Only 2 attempts have been made to explain why they think you should have to be in a guild to get the rewards.

#1
It helps make people social.

To which this is quite easily debunked. First some people join guilds just for the rewards and aren't any more or less social than they would be otherwise. Second to which I would argue is that guilds are less social than solo players and small guilds. Having to join group finder to get teams and looking for OP teams in fleet is much more social than just playing with the same guild all day.

#2
It helps create community.

To which this is also easily debunked. In the thread you'll see people being honest and saying they have alts in big guilds just for the rewards every week, then go back to their mains in other guilds. You've also got people leaving small to medium sized guilds joining big ones so they can get better rewards. And neither of those help build a community.

The rest of the 26 pages is just people saying "Just join a guild" "Just join a guild" "Just join a guild" "Just join a guild" over and over without actually trying to give justifiable reasons as to WHY you should have to join a guild to get rewards for doing the same exact thing you do solo as you would be doing in a guild.

All the current system does is punish solo players and smaller guilds.

I'm still open to anyone who wants to explain as to why they think people should have to get all huddled up into big guilds in order to get rich and powerful in a game. Feel free to comment. Unless it's another "Just join a guild" post.

denavin's Avatar


denavin
06.23.2019 , 06:16 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainObvius View Post
Should you really have to be in a guild to make more money or have more powerful characters?

I don't think so. Maybe I'm just crazy. I've always felt guilds were supposed to be there to join some friends, find people like you to play with and have people you can rely on when you want to do game content with players of appropriate skill levels.

What I don't think guilds should ever be is a way to make more in game credits or get more loot which results in more powerful characters.

What do I mean by this? Let's look at 2 players.

Player A:
Is in a big guild.
Guild invades a large yield planet.
Gets capped on 6 characters a week for conquest.

Player B:
Is not in a build guild.
Doesn't invade a planet.
Also gets capped on 6 characters a week for conquest.

Both players have essentially put the same amount of time in. Both are equally as 'successful' as the other. Neither in effects has out done the other in any way shape or form. Everything is 100% exactly equal except one is in a guild and one is not. So what do they get?

Player A gets:
6x 50,000 credits
18 SRM's
90 Jawa Junk
12 CMT's (valued at 1-2 mil each on the market, but also used to create powerful augments)

Play B gets:
None of the above. Absolutely nothing for his time and efforts. A big fat sign that says "Either get into a big guild or don't even bother worrying about conquest".

Wait a minute here. Both players put the same amount of time into the game. They both capped 6 characters conquest and one gets 20-30mil worth of goodies and 300k credits and the other player gets NOTHING?

Like REALLY?

All because what? One guy is in a big fancy guild and the other isn't?

Well maybe I'm alone in this but I feel like this is just absolutely insane and crazy.

Now I understand they want to like make a way for guilds to compete against each other. That's all well and good sure I'm all for that. However I absolutely cannot agree with how they are rewarding it. And I certainly don't agree with the way it is now in that you're either in a guild, or ur screwed. Like wow. Just wow.

You know I'm one of the few people who hates rewarding failure in that when you lose a PvP match I think you should get NOTHING! But that's because that would make people actually want to care about winning and not just afk'ing matches and getting half the rewards even if you lose. So I can already see people with the thought that "Well this guild 'won' over that guild, or no guild'.

That being said I feel like if Player B puts the same amount of effort and time doing the same things Player A did, they should be rewarded equally at the end of the week. Guild or no guild. I don't feel like people should feel the need to HAVE to join a guild, or all pile into the 'big' guilds in order to be just as rewarded every week for the same amount of effort other players put into the game. I think people should feel free to play with whatever guild they like, small or big, and get just as many credits and augments as anyone else putting as much time as them into the game.

Pick something else for the rewards of invading a planet. Cosmetics. Cartel certs. Decorations. So many other things you can give out other than tons of credits and rewards to make augments.

As a side note I'd like to say I think it's even silly you have to cap conquest on different characters. I think you should lock the rewards down to legacy. Why should Bioware care if I get 90k conquest on 1 character or 6?

Maybe I"m crazy and alone on this but hey that's how I feel about it.
Get 6 friends or enemy's it does not matter.

Form your own One Man Guild.

Problem solved.... Thus making what is FAIR irrelevant.
HK-55: "Do you think she passed her test?"
Z0-OM: "According to my sensors.... NO
."

CaptainObvius's Avatar


CaptainObvius
06.23.2019 , 06:22 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by denavin View Post
Get 6 friends or enemy's it does not matter.

Form your own One Man Guild.

Problem solved.... Thus making what is FAIR irrelevant.
Besides the fact I already have my own one man guild and don't get invasion rewards, should I have to?

Should players HAVE to be in a guild or part of a 'big' guild in order to reap the same amount of rewards for the same amount of accomplishments as everyone else?

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
06.23.2019 , 06:29 PM | #4
This is an MMO, this is just one way to encourage players to play with other people instead of being a solo player all the time. The system is fine as it is.
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denavin's Avatar


denavin
06.23.2019 , 07:00 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainObvius View Post
Besides the fact I already have my own one man guild and don't get invasion rewards, should I have to?

Should players HAVE to be in a guild or part of a 'big' guild in order to reap the same amount of rewards for the same amount of accomplishments as everyone else?
In a word YES. Guild's SHOULD get special rewards that are not available to Non Gilded Players. That is one of the reasons for having and belonging to Guild and not simply as a Convenient Grouping Machine as you suggested.

I have 3 one man guilds, then I put everyone of my characters in them so I get all of the rewards. Problem solved, did I have to do it, NO. Did I want to have all the rewards non-guildies don't get, YES. Was it hard to accomplish this astounding task, NO. Do I get the Rewards on all of my characters YES.

The solution is easy, if you choose to take it. If not.... Oh Well, you get what you get, or not. It's all up to YOU.

Complaining about it won't solve anything.....
HK-55: "Do you think she passed her test?"
Z0-OM: "According to my sensors.... NO
."

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
06.23.2019 , 07:41 PM | #6
I don't do guilds anymore in games like these because I'd get too sucked into the sense of obligation and it'd eat away my life.

But when I have done it in the past, the "rewards" were never why I was in a guild. I was in a guild because I wanted to play with other people whose company I would enjoy.

I wouldn't say no to having the same conquest reward opportunities as a guild when solo, but I wasn't even aware of the difference, so I never noticed. That said, I think giving guilds something to work toward, including perks, is a cool idea, but if that's the only reason someone is in a guild, well that's just silly and they aren't the kind of person I would have wanted in a guild of mine in the past, since they're just around to mooch off of perks and do the bare minimum. Point being, I more or less agree with you OP on the principle of the thing, though I'm not sure I have much personal stake in the matter.

I would think the main difference should be that doing it as a guild is way easier, not that guild and solo player doing it the same is vastly different rewards for each player, in proportion. I had no idea it was such a big difference. If somebody wants to be a loner and spend 12 hours to get the stuff that 12 people spend a total of 1 hour together to get for each of themselves, I don't really see the problem with that kind of thing being an option.
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CaptainObvius's Avatar


CaptainObvius
06.23.2019 , 08:11 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
This is an MMO, this is just one way to encourage players to play with other people instead of being a solo player all the time. The system is fine as it is.
Actually that speaks to another point I've made about guilds for many years.

DO guilds really encourage players to play with other people?

If you think about it when you're in a guild of say, 40 or 50 other normally active players, you end up mostly just playing with them. So a game of 1000's, or 10's of thousands or MILLIONS of players really ends up boiling down to just playing with a small tight nit group of 40 or 50 players.

Is that how you would define "encouraging players to play with other people"? Cause it's now how I would.

In effect the solo que for pug'ing flashpoints and operations is more along the lines of the definition of 'encouraging players to play with others' than actually having a guild. You end up finding new players to play with every single time and end up playing with far far more variety of people than only playing within your guild.

The reason most of the good players don't like puging is cause many pugs end up being terrible, don't know their characters, don't know the fights and ends up being quite a bit of a mess more often than not. So good players actually prefer NOT to play with other players and make new friends as you would put it. They prefer to find a few good people and stick with them.

So again how should that translate to a small group of players earning more money and more expensive and rare crafting materials over someone who DOES prefer to actually go find new and interesting players to play with opposed to just playing with the same 40 or 50 people every week?

annabethchase's Avatar


annabethchase
06.23.2019 , 08:16 PM | #8
I honestly think SWTOR should push the solo play aspects of the MMO. It's their strong suit. So I kind of agree. Other games do guilds and multiplayer better, why not go against the grain and push out the best weekly rewards based on account effort, not guild effort. That way if a player wants to do story content on a new toon this week, he can do so and still achieve a weekly conquest goal.

I say this because the solo content is clearly the best selling feature in the game right now. If that changes, maybe revisist this.
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MorseGod's Avatar


MorseGod
06.23.2019 , 08:16 PM | #9
I started a guild 2 years ago. Hundreds of people have come and gone. We don't demand anyone do anything specific in the game, so only a small handful of us bother to hammer out the conquest points. We usually aim for small yield planets just to make sure we hit goal with no problems.

Is it easier to ride the gravy train in a huge, active guild that's already established? Sure. That's the incentive to be in a guild. Why even have guilds if there's no substantial benefit to joining them? Running an active, organized guild takes a lot of extra effort, and that's worth something.

With a few more committed people, my guild could be aiming for medium or large yield planets, too. Go find a small handful of people who like conquesting, buy a guild flagship, and start invading planets. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get at least a little something for your trouble.
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annabethchase's Avatar


annabethchase
06.23.2019 , 08:21 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
This is an MMO, this is just one way to encourage players to play with other people instead of being a solo player all the time. The system is fine as it is.
So you really think these rampage runs or last boss lockout runs are actually building a community? that's all I see the large guilds doing anymore, and yes I have a toon in several of the largest. The daily routine is to login at 8pm or so, do that as quick as humanly possible and log off. Not exactly riveting content.
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