The flashpoints are fine - the 2+ man heroics are fine; but what about the 4 man heroic missions? Does anyone else think they're a little out of whack? Some of the flashpoints are easier than these 4 man heroics (in fact some of the flashpoints are kinda snoozefests....)

 

And before anyone says it; no - i'm not saying dumb the game down. I'm saying some of the 4 man heroic missions are a bit too much (specially since there's no LFG tool; and sometimes you can't find a perfect group (tank, healer, 2 dps...)) - These are the only thing I've been disappointed with so far.

 

Any thoughts on this? (disagree/agree - whatever..)

Edited December 26, 2011 by Sabster

I don't think they're too hard at all, especially if you mix your group to include more than 2 professions.

I don't think they're too hard at all, especially if you mix your group to include more than 2 professions.

 

That's part of the problem. Let's face it, everyone rolls dps - and when i did a flashpoint with 3 dps and a healer; I was beginning to think I sucked as a healer. Then I ran it with a tank and 2 other dps, and it was black and white difference.

 

That's fine and all; but as I said earlier - you can't always find a perfect group.

 

I'd rather have flashpoints being hard like the 4 man heroics, and the 4 man heroics really be more then the 2+ heroics.

That's part of the problem. Let's face it, everyone rolls dps - and when i did a flashpoint with 3 dps and a healer; I was beginning to think I sucked as a healer. Then I ran it with a tank and 2 other dps, and it was black and white difference.

 

That's fine and all; but as I said earlier - you can't always find a perfect group.

 

I'd rather have flashpoints being hard like the 4 man heroics, and the 4 man heroics really be more then the 2+ heroics.

 

The game is designed this way purposely. I'm a healer. I've never had a problem finding a balanced group. Sometimes you have to take initiative when looking for a group, and advertise that you are looking for a tank. Sometimes it's better to run a heroic with a 3 man group and use a companion that's a tank, than wait to find a perfect group.

They are not too hard. They just force you to work as a team and think about what you are doing.

and sometimes you can't find a perfect group (tank, healer, 2 dps...)) (disagree/agree - whatever..)

 

well dooing a heroic without a tank or healer is like playing without using your hands, it's common knowledge that you need a tank and a healer in a mmo dungeon. This game mechaniks have been build around the trinity system and don't expect heroics to be nerfed to a point where you could do it without a tank or healer, because this would make them laughable for groups having both.

We duoed every single heroic with Vanguard + Shadow setup using x2 healer pets. LoS abuse was utilized on a lot of stuff (as well as stealth clicking) but it got it done.

 

Honestly, most of the heroics save the 4man heroic on Voss (where you have to kill some mobs, blow up the towers, then fight a champion with his champion pet that does insane damage) are pretty well tuned.

Nah, We usually get 2 dps+2 healers and we are good to go. although werenot much tanks, the healers keep us practically at full health.

Some Heroic 4s are ridiculously tough, others not as much. I think part of the problem is actually that it's hard to know which Heroic 4s require a balanced group and which do not. I've gone through a few where everyone was dps or hybrid, sc****** through even without a healer. Others have been absolutely impossible without a balanced, skilled team.

 

As a general rule, you should try to get a balanced team for Heroic 4s, but it's not always necessary. On top of which, I'm of the opinion that Heroic 4s have already been toned down; I feel like they were a little harder in beta, but this is only my personal opinion and may not reflect reality.

 

ETA: And apparently s-c-r-a-p-i-n-g is censored out. Great job on the filter guys.

Edited December 26, 2011 by phoenixds

I have to disagree. So far my bf and myself are on correlia (just started it) with our sentinel and sage combo. We've done every heroic 4 mission (except tyrant) in the game that we've ran across easily with our companions T-7 (our tank) and Tharan. Having to use proper CC has been a nice change. Reminds me of the DAoC days with mez and stuff pre-pbaoe era. But none have really been difficult at all so far. I think we do them faster than most groups though too since it seems alot of people are just being careless through them from what i gather.

 

I know alot of people complain about their companions but Tharan's CC has been done well with the AI and T-7/scourge both tank just fine for us. No issues at all.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Alirha

Yes, Heroic 4's are way way to hard and are really misleading. They depend way to much on particular class abilities and not about player cooperation. It doesn't matter how well a group works together if you don't have a particular class ability to succeed.

 

I just tried "Not Afraid Enough" on Voss with a 47 Guardian, a 47 Scoundrel, 48 Sentinel and a 49 Shadow. We were doing awesome up until the last champion boss and his elite pet. It ran like a 2 heroic then tuned into a 16 Operation on the last boss.We had no in combat cc's and the both the Boss and his pet hit way too hard. If we had a in combat 60 cc this would have worked, everything I read on line said that was the way to do it. Basically we wasted half an hour doing this mission just to fail because we didn't have a player that could do in combat crowd control.

 

An "ability" only usable by one or two classes should not make or break a Hard earned mission!

 

Too many Heroic 4's are unachievable without Stealth's and/or in combat CC's. We need balance PVE content and to have special class abilities unnecessary the get these missions done.

 

If you don't need class specific cc's for Hard Mode's and Operations they you shouldn't need them for simple leveling content!

Edited December 1, 2012 by Jrea

Yes, Heroic 4's are way way to hard and are really misleading. They depend way to much on particular class abilities and not about player cooperation. It doesn't matter how well a group works together if you don't have a particular class ability to succeed.

 

I just tried "Not Afraid Enough" on Voss with a 47 Guardian, a 47 Scoundrel, 48 Sentinel and a 49 Shadow. We were doing awesome up until the last champion boss and his elite pet. It ran like a 2 heroic then tuned into a 16 Operation on the last boss.We had no in combat cc's and the both the Boss and his pet hit way too hard. If we had a in combat 60 cc this would have worked, everything I read on line said that was the way to do it. Basically we wasted half an hour doing this mission just to fail because we didn't have a player that could do in combat crowd control.

 

An "ability" only usable by one or two classes should not make or break a Hard earned mission!

 

Too many Heroic 4's are unachievable without Stealth's and/or in combat CC's. We need balance PVE content and to have special class abilities unnecessary the get these missions done.

 

If you don't need class specific cc's for Hard Mode's and Operations they you shouldn't need them for simple leveling content!

 

You only refer to 1 particular mob in 1 particular HC 4 Mission in 1 particular planet. That's not enough to call every HC 4 in the game too hard. You are simply not good enough, get over it.

He does however have a point. If his group can blaze through the hc4 right up to the endboss without any sort of problemm and then spend 30min wiping on endboss, then maybe the endboss is overtuned for that particular hc4. Generally the hc4´s are fairly well tuned. A few of them are realy hard, probably even a bit too hard for their level, but then some are too easy to be called hc4.

He does however have a point. If his group can blaze through the hc4 right up to the endboss without any sort of problemm and then spend 30min wiping on endboss, then maybe the endboss is overtuned for that particular hc4. Generally the hc4´s are fairly well tuned. A few of them are realy hard, probably even a bit too hard for their level, but then some are too easy to be called hc4.

 

Ok, of course that is possible. But calling for a nerf to all HC 4's because of that? Not reasonable.

heroic 4s are not hard at all , all tier 1s can be 2 manned ..... trust me we have done them all ,

and LI can be 3 manned ......... very easy if any thing they need buffing !!!!!! if you find them hard do some normals get some gear , and dont try or expect to do them in green grear ... with 10 k hp , the gear u leveld in ....... they are ment to be a step up from normal modes ..... so if any thing plz make them harder

Only that one on Belsavis is, the Breaking Down one? That boss mob is too tough.

Look, they are not hard if you have the right people, gets harder if you dont do it right

A nearly 1 year necropost? I think that's a record or something.

 

Yes, Heroic 4's are way way to hard and are really misleading.

 

Not really. The leveling H4s are pretty much all simple, toned down FPs: they require specialization, cooperation, and actual intelligent play, rather than just facerolling through. The fact that fewer people run the H4s so they don't know the strats for those bosses that explicitly require them doesn't really mean that they're "too hard" or "misleading".

 

The Heroic that you're having a problem with requires either CC (for the elite) coupled with the ability to kite intelligently (so that an errant AoE doesn't pop the CC) or a boatload of DPS (to burn the elite down while the tank blows survivability CDs) coupled with people that know how to interrupt as well as the ability to kite when he enrages. The boss for that Heroic is pretty much like the Rakghoul Behemoth from Kaon with an add that has to be CCd or burned and an AoE that needs to be interrupted.

Only that one on Belsavis is, the Breaking Down one? That boss mob is too tough.

I've been under leveled and soloed exactly all heroics on Belsavis as an assassin tank. I kept both mine and my companion's gear up to date. All heroics are a walk in the park if you can find a competent tank with level appropriate gear and correct itemization.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Theodulus

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No.

The leveling H4s are pretty much all simple, toned down FPs: they require specialization, cooperation, and actual intelligent play, rather than just facerolling through. The fact that fewer people run the H4s so they don't know the strats for those bosses that explicitly require them doesn't really mean that they're "too hard" or "misleading".

 

The Heroic that you're having a problem with requires either CC (for the elite) coupled with the ability to kite intelligently (so that an errant AoE doesn't pop the CC) or a boatload of DPS (to burn the elite down while the tank blows survivability CDs) coupled with people that know how to interrupt as well as the ability to kite when he enrages. .

 

Listen to Kitru, Kitru knows all.

Just Reviewing my earlier post. This whole thread seems to be the "Frustrated and Angry" VS. "Liars and Trolls". People who just crashed on a 4h post on the thread, people who like to make stuff up just respond.

 

As far as the actual topic goes...

 

Heroic 4's are too tough for regular game play, If they want to add in low level ops that's fine, but the difficulty of some of these H4's is just nuts. Not all of them need to be Nerfed but the discrepancy in the difficult of some over others causes a lot of frustration.

 

There is a difference between;

 

1. A difficult mission that needs 4 players.

2. Mission that needs a specked, geared, and experienced 4 man group.

 

When you are doing ops Hard Mode its an option, with 4h's its always a surprise.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Jrea

Just Reviewing from my earlier post.

 

As far as I can tell topic is;

 

The frustrated and angry VS. Liars and Trolls.

 

Heroic 4's are to tough for regular game play, If they want to add in low level ops that's fine, but the difficulty that some of these 4h's is at is just nuts.

 

1. A difficult mission that needs 4 players.

2. Mission that needs a specked, geared, and experienced 4 man group

 

There is a difference and it IS frustrating how unbalanced some of them are.

 

Please do not respond to this if you are just going to be a troll (Ephesia)

Actually most likely u r the one who's trolling here.

Neither me nor my friends have experienced any problems with H4. Just as Kitru said you have to use your abilities properly. Do you think that FPs r insanely hard too?

I've been reading forums and all I see is whining about how this game is easy.

If it is really hard 4 those who r troubled with heroics they just need to either check sum class guides ( I saw yesturday a sent who was wearing aim + willpower gear) or change your keybinding ( skills binded on 1, 2,3,4,5,6 etc is not an option coz u need to move and activate ur abilities quickly enough).

Im new 2 MMO world and seriously addicted 2 this game. Its fantastic. I thought 4 a while that the heroic 4's were 2 hard also. Then i learned 2 read help guides and watch utube. Im finding like others hav said that u need proper teamwork and 4 evry1 2 use proper class abilities and things work out just fine. The hard missions make me learn the right way so as 2 not die all the time.

 

The new player guides in this forum really are fantastic. I`ve read them many times and keep getin better. When coupled with experienced player and listen 2 wat they say, u really cant loose on these mission`s.

Thx

Hasn't been a heroic 4 I couldn't do with me and one other person. Have even solo'ed some of them but that's usually via stealthing. It's really easy if one or both of you have a long CC. Then pull whatever companions you need... tank companions do a pretty good job with agro and can heal them if they are geared with little issue.