Nope, and Nope. I used to not get involved or dabble in conjecture, but I now 100% know the Crafting Inventor Conquest objective is rife with abuse. I'll have a post on it later, but suffice to say a certain someone had the courage to step forward and show me exactly how it's being exploited for massive conquest gains, in that people with 15 members online can literally hold off 60+ people actively in rampage, world boss runs, or other activities like gsf ect with just a few using a particular program. They even sent me a video of them doing it to demonstrate. If any developer would like it, message me too.

 

Conquest gained from crafting needs to be Capped per legacy. No more than Half whatever the large yield conquest goal is. It truly is ridiculous the numbers you can output with it in concert with others, something a normal human would struggle to replicate. I'm an officer in one of the largest conquest guilds on impside, and we just barely beat a guild that literally had 15 members on throughout the entire night we were running conquest in one last push. Bogus.

Just PM JackieKO with the info and if possible get her to email you so you can reply with a copy of the video.

Nope, and Nope. I used to not get involved or dabble in conjecture, but I now 100% know the Crafting Inventor Conquest objective is rife with abuse. I'll have a post on it later, but suffice to say a certain someone had the courage to step forward and show me exactly how it's being exploited for massive conquest gains, in that people with 15 members online can literally hold off 60+ people actively in rampage, world boss runs, or other activities like gsf ect with just a few using a particular program. They even sent me a video of them doing it to demonstrate. If any developer would like it, message me too.

 

Conquest gained from crafting needs to be Capped per legacy. No more than Half whatever the large yield conquest goal is. It truly is ridiculous the numbers you can output with it in concert with others, something a normal human would struggle to replicate. I'm an officer in one of the largest conquest guilds on impside, and we just barely beat a guild that literally had 15 members on throughout the entire night we were running conquest in one last push. Bogus.

Send them the video, let BW handle the botters. But do not touch an objective that majority of the players are not exploiting. What is wrong with you guys, seriously?!

Send them the video, let BW handle the botters. But do not touch an objective that majority of the players are not exploiting. What is wrong with you guys, seriously?!

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^

IF you have proof people are exploiting / botting ANYTHING whether crafting, PVP, heroics, leveling, credit farming, whatever - then send it to the appropriate channels at Bioware and let them deal with the exploiting / botting.

But stop the nonsense around demonizing aspects of the game just because someone else is cheating - deal with the cheating and leave the rest alone.

.

If such proof actually exists, submit it. Until BW has proof such abuse exists, something clearly actionable, you are full of poodoo. Just another fear monger on a personal agenda that you can not sell legitimately, so now you try to make people afraid of it with hear say and supposition.

TBH, if a guild isn't exceeding a billion (with a B) conquest, they're obviously not cheating enough to matter for planetary invasions.

With six fully-unlocked strongholds, it isn't terribly hard to get over a million conquest on one character[1], and a guild can have a thousand members. A thousand members each pulling a million conquest is a billion conquest.

The highest guild conquest totals I've seen on Star Forge are in the hundreds of millions.

Thus, unless I've failed basic arithmetic or missed a guild hitting several billion conquest, nobody is, yet, botting enough to be a problem for conquest, at least on Star Forge.

[1]: Useful daily conquest goals (Numbers are with six fully-unlocked strongholds, which costs about 36 million credits total):

• Increase any reputation by any amount (+43k, really easy, do any reputation mission)
  
• Increase companion influence by one rank (+17k, easy on a relatively new character)
  
• Reassign a utility point (if under 70?) (+35k, takes two seconds)
  
• Do any three group-finder tasks in a day (+30k)
  
• Do the Toborro's Courtyard operation in story mode (+18.9k)
  
• (infinite) Do a group-finder veteran flashpoint (+6.5k +8.7k)
  
• (infinite) Do a group-finder master flashpoint (+6.5k +12.2k)

And if your guild is high enough lvl and you’ve opened up star ship rooms, there are weeks the guild can buy a conquest booster for one of the rooms. My guilds only high enough for 10% booster and I’m not sure if there is one higher. But 10% can make a big difference on how many alts I can get through a week. Sadly, ours ran out last night and there aren’t any available for this weeks conquest (I wish they weren’t on some silly rotation thing).

It actually would be really nice if the bonuses were always available, at least the basic ones like conquest bonus.

On the botting for point's, I still believe we need to address the problem by targetting the exploiters rather than having a knee-jerk reaction and impacting legit players when there are alternatives.

Quoted from another thread (and it still seems to hold true).

UGH !! This entire affair is starting to shape up into what should be called the era of the GUILD WARS !!

 

I just hope the rest of us don't get caught in the cross fire and watch the CQ's get messed up beyond belief (again).

 

On the botting for point's, I still believe we need to address the problem by targetting the exploiters rather than having a knee-jerk reaction and impacting legit players when there are alternatives.

What a concept

Hi all, we deleted recent posts in this thread because they were no longer contributing to the original conversation and the discussion was not healthy. Please keep comments on topic and respectful.

Agreed. Fair enough!

** There is no question that there are a few "tweaks" that might be needed as time progresses. IMO none of those need to be immediate ! And for certain another "major overhaul" is unnecessary.

** Many of us remember a time when CQ's were essentially hardly worth the trouble. Someone took the time to overhaul it .. and IT WORKED !!

And someone complained. I will NOT rehash that affair. Nothing of value would be gained.

** CQ's are (for the most part) still quite functional. Aside from working the GTN CQ's are about the only thing I'm really involved with right now. WHY? In a word BUGS !! In order to remain on topic I will endeavor to remain on topic.

** Several of us (as you have no doubt already read on your own) .. are serious when we say " leave it (CQ's) alone !! We are concerned that other issues will develop. Yes ... BUGS would also be a part of that.

** Many of us really believe that if there are exploits / inappropriate behavior in the game why change the game?? Most of us are content with CQ's where they are. Deal with those who are abusing the system.

** My own personal conclusion is that many of the complaints that are the most troublesome do seem to be centered around "guild" related affairs. Work with the guilds to insure FAIRNESS. Please do not get the rest of us caught in the middle of the crossfire of the Guild Wars.

That said: my own personal concern (as I'm also you have unquestionably ascertained after reading some of my posts) ... is to what level the right people really are listening.

I and my son have dealt with those "in the industry" so to speak. As a general rule gamers are ignored. Input offered even more so. Hence some of my posts that you may have ran across.

I still enjoy offering a degree of input and the opportunity for self expression. And yes ... I am (for the most part) the same in person as you see me here! Life is entirely too short for me to approach things any other way.

We do appreciate your involvement in the community (even if that may not appear so on the surface).

Edited

Thank You

** There is no question that there are a few "tweaks" that might be needed as time progresses. IMO none of those need to be immediate ! And for certain another "major overhaul" is unnecessary.

TBH, I wish I had put a bit more thought into the title of this thread; I agree that the core system is in a good place right now and does not need to be overhauled.

What I had hoped is that we could suggest enhancements or smaller changes for quality of life, or to make the system overall more inclusive of play styles which are not currently represented. More of an x.1 update rather than full overhaul.

TBH, I wish I had put a bit more thought into the title of this thread; I agree that the core system is in a good place right now and does not need to be overhauled.

 

What I had hoped is that we could suggest enhancements or smaller changes for quality of life, or to make the system overall more inclusive of play styles which are not currently represented. More of an x.1 update rather than full overhaul.

It seems most issues with the current CQ system are guild related and ego driven as other members suggested as well.

What if the suggestion to remove planetary tags could be given serious consideration?

Instead of having the guild names appear on planets, show them as conquered by the Rebellion or the Empire?

That will give smaller and medium guilds a sense they are also contributing, and it will most definitely foster a greater sense of community between us all IMO.

IOW I might be in a tiny little guild with friends, but we helped conquer Dantooine for the Rebellion..I mean Empire.

Agreed. Fair enough!

** There is no question that there are a few "tweaks" that might be needed as time progresses. IMO none of those need to be immediate ! And for certain another "major overhaul" is unnecessary.

 

** Many of us remember a time when CQ's were essentially hardly worth the trouble. Someone took the time to overhaul it .. and IT WORKED !!

And someone complained. I will NOT rehash that affair. Nothing of value would be gained.

 

** CQ's are (for the most part) still quite functional. Aside from working the GTN CQ's are about the only thing I'm really involved with right now. WHY? In a word BUGS !! In order to remain on topic I will endeavor to remain on topic.

 

** Several of us (as you have no doubt already read on your own) .. are serious when we say " leave it (CQ's) alone !! We are concerned that other issues will develop. Yes ... BUGS would also be a part of that.

 

** Many of us really believe that if there are exploits / inappropriate behavior in the game why change the game?? Most of us are content with CQ's where they are. Deal with those who are abusing the system.

 

** My own personal conclusion is that many of the complaints that are the most troublesome do seem to be centered around "guild" related affairs. Work with the guilds to insure FAIRNESS. Please do not get the rest of us caught in the middle of the crossfire of the Guild Wars.

 

That said: my own personal concern (as I'm also you have unquestionably ascertained after reading some of my posts) ... is to what level the right people really are listening.

 

I and my son have dealt with those "in the industry" so to speak. As a general rule gamers are ignored. Input offered even more so. Hence some of my posts that you may have ran across.

 

I still enjoy offering a degree of input and the opportunity for self expression. And yes ... I am (for the most part) the same in person as you see me here! Life is entirely too short for me to approach things any other way.

 

We do appreciate your involvement in the community (even if that may not appear so on the surface).

 

Edited

Thank You

Jackie, I agree with Buzz here.

Simple answer is to make conquests more PvE related and STOP giving points for everything someone does. It is a useless way to judge anything. They should make it more specific to each yield. Being in a guild is about completing missions together and grouping with friends. The yields should be goal oriented and sized appropriately. Also we should have better rewards. This game is simply not very rewarding and everyone knows it.

Example

Small Yield- Goal- Complete VM Flashpoints (5), (50) Solo Missions from crafting, heroics, ect (Overall BS)

Medium Yield-Goal-Complete VM Flashpoints (20), (2) SM Operations, (100) Solo mission types crafting, heroics, (overall BS)

Medium Yield 2-Goal-Complete VM Flashpoints (20), HM Flashpoints (5) (10) Won Ranked PvP, (100) Solo Mission types....

Large Yield-Goal-Complete VM Flashpoints (50), HM Flashpoints (20), (5) VM Ops, (1) HM Ops, (200) Solo Mission types....

These are examples but instead of getting all your points instantly from everyone logging in and completing a crafting harvest lets make this system functional and worth having. Also these goals mentioned above should have to be launched from like a guild queue in the guild tab. So the system can make sure it was 100% guild completed. For those thinking right now my guild could never do this, yes you are correct. Small guilds should only be able to do small yields and work up too large. That is why there are so many guilds with so many bad ones.

We currently are doing a progression team and while we are a smaller guild its dumb how many points someone can get solo playing vs a 8 or 16 M operation. Having guild/community play will keep your game together like glue. If we run out of stuff to do then why would you expect people to stay. Con quests is a great idea but honestly very poorly thought out. I don't want to hurt peoples feelings but it needs an overhaul just like the end game loot system.

Simple answer is to make conquests more PvE related and STOP giving points for everything someone does. It is a useless way to judge anything. They should make it more specific to each yield. Being in a guild is about completing missions together and grouping with friends. The yields should be goal oriented and sized appropriately. Also we should have better rewards. This game is simply not very rewarding and everyone knows it.

 

Example

Small Yield- Goal- Complete VM Flashpoints (5), (50) Solo Missions from crafting, heroics, ect (Overall BS)

 

Medium Yield-Goal-Complete VM Flashpoints (20), (2) SM Operations, (100) Solo mission types crafting, heroics, (overall BS)

 

Medium Yield 2-Goal-Complete VM Flashpoints (20), HM Flashpoints (5) (10) Won Ranked PvP, (100) Solo Mission types....

 

Large Yield-Goal-Complete VM Flashpoints (50), HM Flashpoints (20), (5) VM Ops, (1) HM Ops, (200) Solo Mission types....

 

These are examples but instead of getting all your points instantly from everyone logging in and completing a crafting harvest lets make this system functional and worth having. Also these goals mentioned above should have to be launched from like a guild queue in the guild tab. So the system can make sure it was 100% guild completed. For those thinking right now my guild could never do this, yes you are correct. Small guilds should only be able to do small yields and work up too large. That is why there are so many guilds with so many bad ones.

 

We currently are doing a progression team and while we are a smaller guild its dumb how many points someone can get solo playing vs a 8 or 16 M operation. Having guild/community play will keep your game together like glue. If we run out of stuff to do then why would you expect people to stay. Con quests is a great idea but honestly very poorly thought out. I don't want to hurt peoples feelings but it needs an overhaul just like the end game loot system.

Not everyone plays your way. So no, I think this is a bad idea

Not everyone plays your way. So no, I think this is a bad idea

The entire affair (this time) seems to be centered around "fairness"???

I can almost guarantee this will not go well for most of us.

** Mega guilds *vs* small guilds ...

** PvP *vs* PvE ...

** Solo *vs* "Group only" participation ...

** Others (just so I don't miss one)

"Where's my cut ?" ( I don't see anything out there for grumpy old farts who get tired of all the crap ) ...

My concern is that at some point in time the dev team will get so disgusted with this until CQ's are just about torpedoed altogether.

If the system is being abused or exploits are being employed then by all means address the infractions in a manner to discourage ANY future usage.

Time and effort needs to be spent on other matters ... such as OLD FASHION BUG SQUASHING.

For whatever it's worth good ideas and suggestions are never a bad idea. And there are one or two folks that really are trying to offer legitimate suggestions.

The rest, however, seems to be aimed at solving the conflict of the era of the Guild Wars

The entire affair (this time) seems to be centered around "fairness"???

 

I can almost guarantee this will not go well for most of us.

 

** Mega guilds *vs* small guilds ...

** PvP *vs* PvE ...

** Solo *vs* "Group only" participation ...

** Others (just so I don't miss one)

 

"Where's my cut ?" ( I don't see anything out there for grumpy old farts who get tired of all the crap ) ...

 

My concern is that at some point in time the dev team will get so disgusted with this until CQ's are just about torpedoed altogether.

 

If the system is being abused or exploits are being employed then by all means address the infractions in a manner to discourage ANY future usage.

 

Time and effort needs to be spent on other matters ... such as OLD FASHION BUG SQUASHING.

 

For whatever it's worth good ideas and suggestions are never a bad idea. And there are one or two folks that really are trying to offer legitimate suggestions.

 

The rest, however, seems to be aimed at solving the conflict of the era of the Guild Wars

Yep, old timers like us will get torpedoed for the “good” of the game

Hi. I'm a new player (6 months) and really enjoy the game. In that time, I've been in multiple guilds - big and small - and have realized a while ago the crafting issue is a really annoying one both in game - spoiling a bit of the game interactions - and I assume in here as well.

I don't know if this is the appropriate thread, @Jackie, if not I apologize - not really used to the forums. But I do believe any overhaul should include this, which is why I'm posting here.

I understand both sides here. In one hand we have good players that do not abuse the system and enjoy the rewards crafting can give while we do other things - both in and out of the game. And on the other, we have people that enjoy the competition the conquest system gives but get increasinly frustrated with the possible abuses - some numbers would require a lot of hours just crafting non stop, possible but unlikely.

So, I'll give my 2 cents. Why not make crafting a super daily? Lets say:

Crafting I: 0/1000 - 25k conquest points (without stronghold bonus)

Crafting II: 0/2000 - 50k conquest points (without stronghold bonus)

The numbers are just an example. The objective would be a two part daily repeatable (much like activity finder) that would be highly rewarding (62.5k / 125k with stronghold bonus) and would end the whole "bot, macro thing" while keeping crafting a highly rewarding, useful way to get conquest.

It would not hurt small guilds nor would it hurt players that use the free time between work etc. to get conquest. In the example it would require 60 times the current objective to reach the 3000 items but the rewards would be better (60 x 2k - rounding it up = 120k with full stronghold bonus / while one would get 187.5k with that example). And being a daily repeatable the hardcore crafters could get it everyday, while others would get as much as they wanted/could to in a week. It could also make players, such as myself, who do not craft daily to make an effort and get into it.

Of course this won't please everyone, but it seems something like that would effectively end this whole issue and at the same time keep crafting an important part of the gameplay.

That's it. Time to fly and have some fun.

Also, thank you @Jackie for listening.

So, I'll give my 2 cents. Why not make crafting a super daily? Lets say:

 

Crafting I: 0/1000 - 25k conquest points (without stronghold bonus)

Crafting II: 0/2000 - 50k conquest points (without stronghold bonus)

Those numbers would be good for people who only craft, but there are a lot of players who do some other stuff first, then cap the toon with crafting 50 components (less than 2k cqp with full SH bonus).

So do not touch crafting. Get rid of exploiters instead. Let everyone play the way they want to.

Those numbers would be good for people who only craft, but there are a lot of players who do some other stuff first, then cap the toon with crafting 50 components (less than 2k cqp with full SH bonus).

 

So do not touch crafting. Get rid of exploiters instead. Let everyone play the way they want to.

True !!

BW finally gets one right ! (Well ... for the most part) . And yet ... Oh well !!

Good grief !!

As stated ... get rid of the exploiters !! Leave the rest of the CQ stuff right where it's at.

Other (more important priorities) that need work right now ??? Take your pick.. just a few I'm cretain!

** BUG SQUASHING (I'm certain that there are a few off the top of my head for certain that could be addressed).

** More story advancement ( remember what the game centers around ... ??? There use to be several !! )

** Actual companion interactions again ( let's face it ... aside from a 2 minute peck on the lips ... they're just window dressing right now ).

** And of course the dreams of so many of us ... maybe in another thread. (This one could take a whole page !!) :D

In short ... there's a lot to be done ! So much so that it seems almost inappropriate to redo something that is (for the most part) working.

Why should the vast majority be punished by the abusive actions of a few like this ??

Those numbers would be good for people who only craft, but there are a lot of players who do some other stuff first, then cap the toon with crafting 50 components (less than 2k cqp with full SH bonus).

 

So do not touch crafting. Get rid of exploiters instead. Let everyone play the way they want to.

It is a good point, easily addressed by adding a handful of other 2k dailies. With the recent changes getting to 50k is incredibly easy but if still need those 2k, then there are already plenty in game to pick and take you above the 50k - space battles, sh decoration, selling junk... to name a few. So, adding a few others like that should make the issue presented go away.

True !!

 

As stated ... get rid of the exploiters !! Leave the rest of the CQ stuff right where it's at.

 

Other (more important priorities) that need work right now ??? Take your pick.. just a few I'm cretain!

 

In short ... there's a lot to be done ! So much so that it seems almost inappropriate to redo something that is (for the most part) working.

 

Why should the vast majority be punished by the abusive actions of a few like this ??

Excellent points!

However there's one thing. You yourself agree the crafting conquest objective can be exploited; so it's not a perfect objective in itself. Sure, the objective does not force anyone to exploit it; only people with their reasons choose to do so.

But to actually hunt down and get rid of exploiters demands a lot of (constant) work; they'd actually have to invest time and resources to analyze every single notification and get those people out. Not to mention the possible legal challenges if someone would really like to be a pain. And, not really putting an end to the problem itself, since an exploiter can easily create another account and get back to the game giving still more work to the team...

It seems that eliminating aspects of the game that can be exploited is a much better option (I doubt crafting is the only one); since once done there'll be no need to go to all that work and resource spending. Once crafting can no longer be exploited, there will be no more need to deal with the subject.

All that time and resources could (and should) be better spent working on improving the other elements you touched in your posts.

In the end, as I said before, any change (or the lack there of) won't please everyone.

 

However there's one thing. You yourself agree the crafting conquest objective can be exploited; so it's not a perfect objective in itself. Sure, the objective does not force anyone to exploit it; only people with their reasons choose to do so.

It's the same as any exploit. No one needs to be a <redacted> and use an exploit, but people do, so removes these <redacted> from the game, no matter the exploit, if they are using it, they are the issue.

Crafting does not need to be touched, it is used by people with many alts, who needs to add an extra 'umph' to their CQ after using all the one and done stuff. Making it a daily will screw more small guilds, than anyone else.

More like we're all exhausted from the incessant back-and-forth mindless vitriol spouted over the course of the summer, and those involved in the ruckus know any lengthy discussion could very well trigger another internecine war, and we'd rather just let it go for a while.

or just don't click on threads if you don't want to be part of the 'mindless vitriol'?