Thoughts on the matter?

Before the end of KotET it was clear: Zakuul had to be stpped and the Alliance was the only power able to do it. After that it's getting more problematic. I'm sure one factor is that he suffered a lot from the Republic and maybe even could fear some kind of persecution if he came back. There are people like Lana in Alliance that he trusts and respects, so he can either believe or even delude himself it can still be a power for positive change. Or at least better than any other place he could go.

My guess is, if the story goes anywhere/if writers care, that if the PC turns into not only a bloodthisty tyrant, but also one that is hell-bent on destroying the Republic, Theron will leave/do something about it. He just didn't reach his breaking point yet or his betrayal is in preperation stages. If the Iokath traitor's identity is player-choice based, he's one of the major candidates.

Theron doesn't respond badly to every dark side action, the only example i know of: you can imprison or execute Saresh, either choice Theron enjoys watching, he even mentions with a darkside choice after killing her, that he enjoyed watching that but he should of felt guilty about it but doesn't.

While he maybe a "good" spy which is ambiguous enough by itself, i'm virtually certain that he has commited bad actions like the incident at Ziost and there could be other events. A spy has a number of jobs that must be done besides the sterotypical choices, someone like that learns how to bury those emotions for the right reasons even if it's to take another persons life or destroy an entire village full of people. so while he may appear to dislike your actions it could be a front to make you believe he hates your choices. You can never know with a spy.

I think you are correct in that Iokath may start to be the tipping point with Theron's allegiance to the Outlander if you're dark. It made sense that he would join you to defeat the galaxy's tyrants (Revan, Emperor, Valkorion, Arcann, Vaylin), but now that YOU can be the tyrant, they're gonna have to figure out what to do with him, which is why he became my number one suspect for the traitor on Iokath.

I don't think Lana betraying a light Outlander works, though. Maybe Theron is just *the* traitor, whether light or dark. It scares me, he's my favorite character left in the Old Republic, I don't want them to assassinate his story like they did Malcom's. I hope it's very well done, or I hope it's nothing to do with him and he finds his own way away from the dark Outlander. I'm not really sure who's in charge of the Republic at this point, maybe he goes back to them to repair the damage Saresh and Malcom did. Or, like you say, maybe he's just broken down and given up doing his own thing and wants to belong to something and stays with the Alliance, his own conscious be damned. Poor wittle Theron. :(

Theron doesn't respond badly to every dark side action, the only example i know of: you can imprison or execute Saresh, either choice Theron enjoys watching, he even mentions with a darkside choice after killing her, that he enjoyed watching that but he should of felt guilty about it but doesn't.

 

While he maybe a "good" spy which is ambiguous enough by itself, i'm virtually certain that he has commited bad actions like the incident at Ziost and there could be other events. A spy has a number of jobs that must be done besides the sterotypical choices, someone like that learns how to bury those emotions for the right reasons even if it's to take another persons life or destroy an entire village full of people. so while he may appear to dislike your actions it could be a front to make you believe he hates your choices. You can never know with a spy.

Nothing Theron did in Ziost, was dark side. No, he's not some pure hearted Jedi, but he's an SIS Agent trying to take down the evil Empire as well as stop a evil force presence from returning.

He of course fails.

However, his choices were never dark side choices.

This doesn't mean he can't agree with some dark side choices either, like Saresh. However, let's remember, Saresh is a terrible person. She may have started out wanting a better Republic and an end to the Empire, but she was willing to sacrifice anyone (except herself), screw over anyone (except herself) to get there, because she was also power mad.

However, maybe it's a matter of not reaching his breaking point. Maybe Theron and Lana aren't meant to have breaking points.

I'm a bit inclined to believe the later, not because of the devs themselves, but because of the players.

Lana doesn't seem to the type to leave because of light side. Theron seems like the type to leave because of to many dark side. However, to the player base, this is non factor. History shows, players have a tendency to whine if they think there's to much bias on one side over the other, even when it makes sense.

When you're in the room with the dead alien, my agent said something about using the weapon to annhilate the republic (or something similar). Theron reacted really badly saying something like "That's what I was worried about or what worries me" and the game said "theron Shan will remember that".

So I can see him leaving or betraying her (or at least breaking up with her).

I did try to get him to break up with my agent, so I chose all the worse options ever (like insulting his dead father, and such), but nope, he still said "I love you"

I think you are correct in that Iokath may start to be the tipping point with Theron's allegiance to the Outlander if you're dark. It made sense that he would join you to defeat the galaxy's tyrants (Revan, Emperor, Valkorion, Arcann, Vaylin), but now that YOU can be the tyrant, they're gonna have to figure out what to do with him, which is why he became my number one suspect for the traitor on Iokath.

 

I don't think Lana betraying a light Outlander works, though. Maybe Theron is just *the* traitor, whether light or dark. It scares me, he's my favorite character left in the Old Republic, I don't want them to assassinate his story like they did Malcom's. I hope it's very well done, or I hope it's nothing to do with him and he finds his own way away from the dark Outlander. I'm not really sure who's in charge of the Republic at this point, maybe he goes back to them to repair the damage Saresh and Malcom did. Or, like you say, maybe he's just broken down and given up doing his own thing and wants to belong to something and stays with the Alliance, his own conscious be damned. Poor wittle Theron. :(

Preface: This issue isn't entirely unique for Theron. Vanilla comps (before KOTFE/KOTET of course) were forced to be your ally no matter what, and you could do some really despicable things... Mako and DS Bounty Hunter, for example. KOTFE and KOTET do obviously add more consequence than before, but just saying...

Doesn't make entirely too much sense for Theron to betray a mostly LS Outlander; on the Peacekeeper path, he seems really positive about the Alliance, so it doesn't fit the "marked by anger, hope eroding" bill that Tyth spelled out. The way I see it -- if Theron WAS the traitor, his character that we know would be a complete 100% lie. He gave up his career to see this Alliance work, because he thinks it's the only way to save the galaxy at this point. He seems completely appalled by the superweapons/god droids and what they are capable of... would be weird if he actually made himself the instrument to help wake them up.

It's been my interpretation that Theron has remained with the Alliance because he believes he can do the most good there, and he's also obviously deeply disappointed in Republic leadership. He was let down by Malcom in a huge way, just when the two of them were creating a relationship with one another. Theron staying with the Alliance who is led by a tyrant might be some issue of pride or guilt with him. He has proven himself stubborn once set upon his path, even to disastrous results (see: Ziost).

But yeah, poor Theron's been through a lot. I saw a playthrough with Empress Sith Warrior who sides with Empire AND goes back to romancing Quinn at Iokath just after kissing Theron and it's really THE DARKEST TIMELINE for him... I want to give him all the hugs. If he's not the traitor here (and I really don't think he is, or Lana for that matter), I wonder if BW would have a "critical" moment with him eventually where he finally puts his foot down.

Nothing Theron did in Ziost, was dark side. No, he's not some pure hearted Jedi, but he's an SIS Agent trying to take down the evil Empire as well as stop a evil force presence from returning.

 

He of course fails.

 

However, his choices were never dark side choices.

Let's start from the beginning, he decides to send a group of Jedi to Ziost without the knowledge or approval of his leaders. This means that any actions that comes from this unauthorised mission would be on Theron, so it's a bad choice taken that risks others and their lives, not to mention the risks of being captured, and interrogated for information.

Theron knew there was something going on Ziost but he didn't know exactly what, then he lost contact with Surro and her team, the emperor was using her to further his aims, in effect any action the emperor took on Surro to kill innocent people is all a direct result of Theron sending that team in the first place. That is a Dark side action because he willingly and recklessly risked the lives of others and they and he paid the price when Surro and her team were taken over and started killing people and they themselves were at risk of being killed by your character.

My Sith inquisitor is a dark sider, and is in love with Theron. Which puts her sometime in a quandry. She's as Machiavellian as they come, and will do whatever is necessary to achieve her own goals. But when Jace dies, she is very warm and comforting to Theron, proving she has a soft side, but she feels the Republic is too and decadent to help the people, but she also plans to crush the Sith overall for a few reasons.

1. Too much infighting.

2. WAAYYY too corrupt

3. Too much sharing of power(gee doesn't this sound like someone, Bane perhaps )

Basically her goals are to crush the sith order and remake it not quite on the rule of 2, but the sith in her order are going to be much more disiplined, a lot less of them and a lot more powerful, almost like Samurai. Other users will become more like the Knights of Zakuul.

That's why my Inquistor loves and needs Theron if she's going to reshape the galaxy.

Let's start from the beginning, he decides to send a group of Jedi to Ziost without the knowledge or approval of his leaders. This means that any actions that comes from this unauthorised mission would be on Theron, so it's a bad choice taken that risks others and their lives, not to mention the risks of being captured, and interrogated for information.

 

Theron knew there was something going on Ziost but he didn't know exactly what, then he lost contact with Surro and her team, the emperor was using her to further his aims, in effect any action the emperor took on Surro to kill innocent people is all a direct result of Theron sending that team in the first place. That is a Dark side action because he willingly and recklessly risked the lives of others and they and he paid the price when Surro and her team were taken over and started killing people and they themselves were at risk of being killed by your character.

He heard about something going on on Ziost and sent a team to check it out. Hardly a DS option o.O

Just because the results ended up the way they did doesn't mean he had bad or callous intentions.

Before the end of KotET it was clear: Zakuul had to be stpped and the Alliance was the only power able to do it. After that it's getting more problematic. I'm sure one factor is that he suffered a lot from the Republic and maybe even could fear some kind of persecution if he came back. There are people like Lana in Alliance that he trusts and respects, so he can either believe or even delude himself it can still be a power for positive change. Or at least better than any other place he could go.

 

My guess is, if the story goes anywhere/if writers care, that if the PC turns into not only a bloodthisty tyrant, but also one that is hell-bent on destroying the Republic, Theron will leave/do something about it. He just didn't reach his breaking point yet or his betrayal is in preperation stages. If the Iokath traitor's identity is player-choice based, he's one of the major candidates.

I absolutely agree with this, I think the traitor is based off of player choice, some might get Lana, some might get Theron, or somebody else. I think it would be really cool for bioware to do the traitor based off of player choice. Theron stocking around for a darkside Emperor / Empress does not make a lot of sense to me. I think we are going to loose some companions coming up based off of choices we have made. Jorgen staying with a darkside emperor / empress does not make sense there are many like that. Whoever, the traitor is it is going to be interesting.

He heard about something going on on Ziost and sent a team to check it out. Hardly a DS option o.O

 

Just because the results ended up the way they did doesn't mean he had bad or callous intentions.

listen to what theron had to say during his reappearance on ziost and just before you landed on the space station.

Theron was supposed to call you if anything serious was going on, so he failed to notify almost everyone about the action. you consider this an excellent choice of action?

Theron proceeded to act and conducted an unauthorised mission on Ziost and lost contact with his team on Ziost. It's the same as if a Colonel sent a special forces team in to a warzone while bombs were actually being dropped to try find something and they get blown up, the intentions means everything. Sure Theron was looking for something but he put that jedi team at risk and he not only stayed behind but he watched it all coming undone. He may as well be the one pulling the triggers next to their heads.

These two actions alone are enough to be considered bad choices and in the morally aligned binary world of star wars, bad choices are dark side actions.

I believe longer Theron follows the Darkside Outlander, more he, him self becomes dark side influenced, As vice versa, (light Side) as all do or slowly does. If you recall its the Outlanders ability to get any one and Every one to want to follow them through thick and thin, no matter what the cause may be. light side or Dark side alike for some reason they want to Follow this Outlander. This is The Outlanders Super Power.

After seeing Theron watching The Outlander kill ( well i wont spoil it but, you know whom ) and he didnt do a damned thing to stop it. Told me Theron is more loyal to the Outlander now more than ever. I have no doubt that Theron is NOT the trader.

 

After seeing Theron watching The Outlander kill ( well i wont spoil it but, you know whom ) and he didnt do a damned thing to stop it. Told me Theron is more loyal to the Outlander now more than ever. I have no doubt that Theron is NOT the trader.

put who you're talking about in spoiler tags, because I can't think of anyone the Outlander has killed that didn't deserve it.

Preface: This issue isn't entirely unique for Theron. Vanilla comps (before KOTFE/KOTET of course) were forced to be your ally no matter what, and you could do some really despicable things... Mako and DS Bounty Hunter, for example. KOTFE and KOTET do obviously add more consequence than before, but just saying...

 

Doesn't make entirely too much sense for Theron to betray a mostly LS Outlander; on the Peacekeeper path, he seems really positive about the Alliance, so it doesn't fit the "marked by anger, hope eroding" bill that Tyth spelled out. The way I see it -- if Theron WAS the traitor, his character that we know would be a complete 100% lie. He gave up his career to see this Alliance work, because he thinks it's the only way to save the galaxy at this point. He seems completely appalled by the superweapons/god droids and what they are capable of... would be weird if he actually made himself the instrument to help wake them up.

 

It's been my interpretation that Theron has remained with the Alliance because he believes he can do the most good there, and he's also obviously deeply disappointed in Republic leadership. He was let down by Malcom in a huge way, just when the two of them were creating a relationship with one another. Theron staying with the Alliance who is led by a tyrant might be some issue of pride or guilt with him. He has proven himself stubborn once set upon his path, even to disastrous results (see: Ziost).

 

But yeah, poor Theron's been through a lot. I saw a playthrough with Empress Sith Warrior who sides with Empire AND goes back to romancing Quinn at Iokath just after kissing Theron and it's really THE DARKEST TIMELINE for him... I want to give him all the hugs. If he's not the traitor here (and I really don't think he is, or Lana for that matter), I wonder if BW would have a "critical" moment with him eventually where he finally puts his foot down.

/sigh I can't really disagree with anything you've written but he's still a suspect in my book. That's why I like him so much, he's very complicated and a conflicted character that seems to gravitate towards juicy drama lol. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if he accidentally made things worse a la Ziost by trying to keep the weapon out of everyone's hands from the start somehow.

the default choice for Iokath is that you "saved the galaxy" not that you became an Emperor. So, player choice do not really matter. If you look at the Default choices, for characters that skipped some of the expansions, then you will see that you would have made pragmatic choices.

The notification that "Theron will remember that" is irrelevant and has no bearing on what you will do in the future. There were a lot of those notifications when you refused or accepted Valkorian's help. Valkorian is dead and nothing leading up to his death addressed any actions that you took in the past.

Only specific actions have consequences, not a series of actions. Typical example, despite Koth's numerous disagreements over some of your actions, he will only leave the alliance, if you allow Kaliyo to bomb Zakuul. Similarly, if you refused Valkorian, at the end of KOTFE Chapter 1, nothing happens, he'll still be giving you his power in Chapter 2.

And Theron is not the traitor.

the default choice for Iokath is that you "saved the galaxy" not that you became an Emperor. So, player choice do not really matter. If you look at the Default choices, for characters that skipped some of the expansions, then you will see that you would have made pragmatic choices.

 

The notification that "Theron will remember that" is irrelevant and has no bearing on what you will do in the future. There were a lot of those notifications when you refused or accepted Valkorian's help. Valkorian is dead and nothing leading up to his death addressed any actions that you took in the past.

 

Only specific actions have consequences, not a series of actions. Typical example, despite Koth's numerous disagreements over some of your actions, he will only leave the alliance, if you allow Kaliyo to bomb Zakuul. Similarly, if you refused Valkorian, at the end of KOTFE Chapter 1, nothing happens, he'll still be giving you his power in Chapter 2.

 

And Theron is not the traitor.

YOUR MOM'S THE TRAITOR.