This is the best explanation I’ve seen of what happens with online games and pvp.

 

I’ve been saying for the last 4 years that the problems we have were snowballing. Well that snow ball is so big now that I’m not sure it can be stopped without a concerted effort from Bioware to listen to the players. Sadly, I can see that happening.

 

A prime comparison in this video to swtor is Hutt ball popping so much that people end up not playing pvp at all.

 

We are snowballing and most of it could have been avoided, which makes me sad

Edited July 11, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

 

This is the best explanation I’ve seen of what happens with online games and pvp.

 

I’ve been saying for the last 4 years that the problems we have were snowballing. Well that snow ball is so big now that I’m not sure it can be stopped without a concerted effort from Bioware to listen to the players. Sadly, I can see that happening.

 

A prime comparison in this video to swtor is Hutt ball popping so much that people end up not playing pvp at all.

 

We are snowballing and most of it could have been avoided, which makes me sad

 

People don't PVP in general not just in Huttball . A large portion of players in uranked are just clueless or are epen number farmers .

 

It's a total joke , and that's why I stopped unranked altogether and moved to solo ranked and que regs only if ranked isn't popping.

 

While toxic sometimes, at least in the majority of the cases players are doing their best to win, unlike in regs where you see those sad " I dont give a ****/' players .

 

Remember: There is no reason to bother for wins in regs. You get absolutely nothing for it... and that's why people just run around like chicken, while 2, or 3 players on their teams are actually trying and end up quitting because why bother ?

Edited July 11, 2020 by DavidAtkinson

 

This is the best explanation I’ve seen of what happens with online games and pvp.

 

I’ve been saying for the last 4 years that the problems we have were snowballing. Well that snow ball is so big now that I’m not sure it can be stopped without a concerted effort from Bioware to listen to the players. Sadly, I can see that happening.

 

A prime comparison in this video to swtor is Hutt ball popping so much that people end up not playing pvp at all.

 

We are snowballing and most of it could have been avoided, which makes me sad

 

Time to inflict much pain: most of issues we have in pvp now is BECAUSE OF PVP PLAYER's claims itself.

 

Too much huttball?

But it was players who cried years ago that we need "more huttball warzones", "huttball leagues" etc.

 

Dead team ranked and confirmation from Mike that win requirement will be tweaked which means wintrader's triumph as it was in season 11 when team ranked was dead yet we had no win requirement which led to many Wintraders reaching top spots?

But it was players who cried years ago that we need to remove mats from ranked which resulted in death of competition we had in team ranked

 

Too bad matchmaking when a single player with high hidden elo always matched up against full scaled premades since such premade's overall hidden elo is also high?

But it was players who cried years ago that we need matchmaking changes in regs which caused even worse matchmaking system.

 

Well, the last point is arguable because players didn't ask devs to make such stupid hidden elo matchmaking rulles when single players who have high elo will always end up in teams with noobs against full-scaled, voice-commed premades. Yet in other cases it is our fault due to tonnes of negligent suggestions some of players provided without thinking about future consequences

Edited July 11, 2020 by bladech

Remember: There is no reason to bother for wins in regs. You get absolutely nothing for it... and that's why people just run around like chicken, while 2, or 3 players on their teams are actually trying and end up quitting because why bother ?

 

Absenting rewards as incentives for winning was probably not for the best. It has been argued in the past that players who enjoy pvp would engage in pvp for its own sake. For most people, I suspect involvement is motivated by both. Years ago I did more than the dailies because I enjoyed it. Then it became only about the dailies and the weekly. Now it is becoming more about the activity, more about self-improvement, and the thrill of making my mark. Oh, I will never make my mark the way the elite players do, but my victories are enough for me.

As far as I can tell, he is referring to PvP specific games and that translates poorly to swtor. The bread and butter of this game is PvE, and it seem to me that Bioware has actually managed to stem the population decline and maybe even caught the attention of new players - despite this being a decrepit old game.

 

PVP was never meant to be anymore than a sideshow, and things like match-making and class balance has always been an afterthought. Singling out a minor facet like PvP and saying it is snowballing feel disingenuous to me, as the resources needed to support it was never there to begin with.

Time to inflict much pain: most of issues we have in pvp now is BECAUSE OF PVP PLAYER's claims itself.

 

Too much huttball?

But it was players who cried years ago that we need "more huttball warzones", "huttball leagues" etc.

 

Dead team ranked and confirmation from Mike that win requirement will be tweaked which means wintrader's triumph as it was in season 11 when team ranked was dead yet we had no win requirement which led to many Wintraders reaching top spots?

But it was players who cried years ago that we need to remove mats from ranked which resulted in death of competition we had in team ranked

 

Too bad matchmaking when a single player with high hidden elo always matched up against full scaled premades since such premade's overall hidden elo is also high?

But it was players who cried years ago that we need matchmaking changes in regs which caused even worse matchmaking system.

 

Well, the last point is arguable because players didn't ask devs to make such stupid hidden elo matchmaking rulles when single players who have high elo will always end up in teams with noobs against full-scaled, voice-commed premades. Yet in other cases it is our fault due to tonnes of negligent suggestions some of players provided without thinking about future consequences

 

To be fair, OG huttball was awesome and we just wanted more of that and yes I'd havel oved a huttball league. The problem is the other 2 huttball maps are poorly designed. Its clear as day the talent level from the OG team to now is night and day in terms of map designs.

 

I don't really have an opinion on the mats being a reward in ranked.

 

No one necessarily asked for skilled matchmaking or an elo system for regs, just that teams were more balanced class wise. It was getting old seeing one team have 4-5 healers/tanks and the other team having no healers at all. All we really wanted was that if one team had a healer the game at least attempt to make sure the other team had one, especially with how common it was for the game to stack healers onto one team back then.

 

Most of the problems in the game is simply due to the low budget and lack of dev talent. There's probably only 1 person even working on pvp anymore.

As far as I can tell, he is referring to PvP specific games and that translates poorly to swtor. The bread and butter of this game is PvE, and it seem to me that Bioware has actually managed to stem the population decline and maybe even caught the attention of new players - despite this being a decrepit old game.

 

PVP was never meant to be anymore than a sideshow, and things like match-making and class balance has always been an afterthought. Singling out a minor facet like PvP and saying it is snowballing feel disingenuous to me, as the resources needed to support it was never there to begin with.

 

This is blatantly untrue. Go back and listen to the original dev team and just look at the original design of level 50 end game. They fully wanted wpvp to be a huge thing and they fully wanted ranked warzones to become an esport. The problem is the game released too soon. It needed another year of development, but because it released in the buggy state that it was in with incomplete end game content the masses that flooded to the game left in droves.

 

Content was also drip fed from day 1. You wanna know the major difference between swtor and ffxiv? Content. FFXIV gets new content on a consistent schedule every 3 months. SWTOR you're lucky to get something new every year.

The main problem with huttball now is that it can be won easily with only two players on a team trying to win. The time to kill being so long, and mobility being so high for certain classes, has made it so "incidental" objective play is no longer effective at winning huttball. Every other warzone is difficult to win for the team with less skill even if they are wholeheartedly playing objectives (well, except OPG, and then only in certain RNG situations). To top it off, those same two players can end the warzone in something like two minutes. It's a horrible design with current abilities.

deleted. i dont care anyway Edited July 12, 2020 by Lundorff

I really wish they would implement a PVP queue system like they do with Flashpoints.

 

Tired of Vandin and Quesh popping literally 10 times a in row? Don't q for them - go into the PVP queue menu and q up for everything else, and that also includes arenas.

 

Civil, Novare, Void, Yavin, Hypergate, all the arenas - maybe even an OG HB if you're in the mood.

 

At least on SF there should be a large enough player base of people doing 1500 dps and crying about obj's to get a decent flow of pops with just those maps if people don't want to play 6 hours of Huttball in a row.

 

Not sure exactly how dead SS is, but this system might turn regs over there into only arenas popping.

I really wish they would implement a PVP queue system like they do with Flashpoints.

 

Tired of Vandin and Quesh popping literally 10 times a in row? Don't q for them - go into the PVP queue menu and q up for everything else, and that also includes arenas.

 

Civil, Novare, Void, Yavin, Hypergate, all the arenas - maybe even an OG HB if you're in the mood.

 

At least on SF there should be a large enough player base of people doing 1500 dps and crying about obj's to get a decent flow of pops with just those maps if people don't want to play 6 hours of Huttball in a row.

 

Not sure exactly how dead SS is, but this system might turn regs over there into only arenas popping.

 

It would be the rational thing to do, so no, it is not going to happen.

huttball leagues

 

When?

Something I think people posting are overlooking in this video is this snowball affect the commentator is describing which has been happening for many years in this game.

And what’s upsetting to me is a whole bunch of the snowballing affect is 100% Biowares fault. I’ve personally been talking about this snowball affect for years and years to do with different things, but all come back to Bioware and their policies and changes have accelerated this snow ball affect.

And one big culprit has been Bioware’s lack of care and extremely poor communication and poor customer focus over the years. Plus when when things have gotten hard or difficult questions are asked, they stick their heads in the sand, which perpetuates the snowballing. You just have to look at what’s happening with players not being able to login and play at the moment and you can see how poor the response is from Musco and co. ie, no response.

Something I think people posting are overlooking in this video is this snowball affect the commentator is describing which has been happening for many years in this game.

And what’s upsetting to me is a whole bunch of the snowballing affect is 100% Biowares fault. I’ve personally been talking about this snowball affect for years and years to do with different things, but all come back to Bioware and their policies and changes have accelerated this snow ball affect.

And one big culprit has been Bioware’s lack of care and extremely poor communication and poor customer focus over the years. Plus when when things have gotten hard or difficult questions are asked, they stick their heads in the sand, which perpetuates the snowballing. You just have to look at what’s happening with players not being able to login and play at the moment and you can see how poor the response is from Musco and co. ie, no response.

 

How the devs treat this game and how the ffxiv devs treat theirs and how interactive they are with their community is definitely night and day. In the end though, I've accepted that this game is going on 9 years old and whatever happens will happen. EA has no interest in giving this game a budget so when its done its done.

Something I think people posting are overlooking in this video is this snowball affect the commentator is describing which has been happening for many years in this game.

And what’s upsetting to me is a whole bunch of the snowballing affect is 100% Biowares fault. I’ve personally been talking about this snowball affect for years and years to do with different things, but all come back to Bioware and their policies and changes have accelerated this snow ball affect.

And one big culprit has been Bioware’s lack of care and extremely poor communication and poor customer focus over the years. Plus when when things have gotten hard or difficult questions are asked, they stick their heads in the sand, which perpetuates the snowballing. You just have to look at what’s happening with players not being able to login and play at the moment and you can see how poor the response is from Musco and co. ie, no response.

 

 

Yes yes... you've been saying it for years, yet the game is still here and PVP is still popping 24/7 on my server .

 

No reason for another doom and gloom thread .

How the devs treat this game and how the ffxiv devs treat theirs and how interactive they are with their community is definitely night and day. In the end though, I've accepted that this game is going on 9 years old and whatever happens will happen. EA has no interest in giving this game a budget so when its done its done.

 

Sad but true. I’ve also given up on them fixing their ways. But I love this game, so if I’m going down with the ship, I’m going to do it kicking and screaming

Yes yes... you've been saying it for years, yet the game is still here and PVP is still popping 24/7 on my server .

 

No reason for another doom and gloom thread .

 

It is not popping 24/7 on every server. And that’s the problem because that’s how you can see how bad the snow balling is. Go to a server where it doesn’t pop 24/7 and you’ll get a better picture. Because if the game was healthy It wouldn’t only have 5 servers and every server would pop 24/7.

If we follow your logic that your server pops 24/7, then Bioware should merge every server into one game server and then everyone would pop 24/7.

I really wish they would implement a PVP queue system like they do with Flashpoints.

 

Tired of Vandin and Quesh popping literally 10 times a in row? Don't q for them - go into the PVP queue menu and q up for everything else, and that also includes arenas.

 

Civil, Novare, Void, Yavin, Hypergate, all the arenas - maybe even an OG HB if you're in the mood.

 

At least on SF there should be a large enough player base of people doing 1500 dps and crying about obj's to get a decent flow of pops with just those maps if people don't want to play 6 hours of Huttball in a row.

 

Not sure exactly how dead SS is, but this system might turn regs over there into only arenas popping.

 

There would be some consequences to having that sort of system. Number farmers would gravitate towards the same few maps, and those maps would pop up in a player like myself's (obj player) queue. So you'd still see farming, you'd still see quitting. And now you have even more of a polarized player base, but based on maps. Some maps would become unofficial number farm maps while HBs and OPG would probably be much better. It's a trade off for sure, but I still wouldn't call that a healthy state of the game.

 

They need to just add an option that allows players to remove all Huttballs from their queue. Not OPG. Not specific map selection. Just Huttball. There would be far less HB pops, but at least every person in a Huttball match signed up to be there.

There would be some consequences to having that sort of system. Number farmers would gravitate towards the same few maps, and those maps would pop up in a player like myself's (obj player) queue. So you'd still see farming, you'd still see quitting.

 

And what maps would # farmers gravitate towards? Let's go over them.

 

Hypergate - 90% of matches most people try to cap pylons as if ranked rewards were on the line; rarely do I get games where people clump mid and farm.

 

Voidstar - 75% of matches end in 5-7 minutes because obj'ers bum rush the door, again, rarely do I see a farmable Void unless a team gets stalled at the bridge or first door

 

Civil War - same idea as Hypergate

 

Yavin - same as Civil and Hypergate

 

Novare - great potential for # farming at mid with balanced comps & heals. But again, if people want to queue pvp and sit at east / west all day, go right ahead

 

Arenas - I can see true obj'ers leaving this map, aka, less concealment Ops would be doing them.

 

All in all, obj's would not be affected by this change, except for those who have a weird fetish for Vandin, Quesh, OG HB and OPG.

 

What I don't get is why so many people queue pvp, and don't ACTUALLY pvp. I see the majority of people in warzones actively run from fights or just stand still and get deleted. But that's totally different subject.

 

So overall, I don't see what maps number farmers could gravitate toward that obj'ers wouldn't just obj anyway like they do now. The idea is for people to not sit through endless pops of garbage maps that no one likes.

 

Anyone who pvp's on a regular basis knows that most people leave Vandin, Quesh and OPG.

People don't PVP in general not just in Huttball . A large portion of players in uranked are just clueless or are epen number farmers .

 

It's a total joke , and that's why I stopped unranked altogether and moved to solo ranked and que regs only if ranked isn't popping.

 

While toxic sometimes, at least in the majority of the cases players are doing their best to win, unlike in regs where you see those sad " I dont give a ****/' players .

 

Remember: There is no reason to bother for wins in regs. You get absolutely nothing for it... and that's why people just run around like chicken, while 2, or 3 players on their teams are actually trying and end up quitting because why bother ?

Then maybe they need to make a ranked for new players to sharpen their teeth on, so they dont play with skilled players and learn how to play. The greatest fun I had in pvp was at lvl 10, going higher just sucks. Also like I said before but back on the spells that you can use in a WZ

It is not popping 24/7 on every server. And that’s the problem because that’s how you can see how bad the snow balling is. Go to a server where it doesn’t pop 24/7 and you’ll get a better picture. Because if the game was healthy It wouldn’t only have 5 servers and every server would pop 24/7.

If we follow your logic that your server pops 24/7, then Bioware should merge every server into one game server and then everyone would pop 24/7.

 

Hey how about a server squish?

Hey how about a server squish?

 

I mean...there's only 2 NA servers left and 3 EU servers lol. They probably reallly don't want there to be only 1 NA server or 1 EU server because at that point...............ya its just admitting the game is done and dead lol.

Hey how about a server squish?

 

While this would be good for pvpers, it would be terrible for many RP and pve

People who don’t like mergers.

 

You also have to consider if they just make one game server or one per region. Which also has its problems because of extra lag. Ie, if they decided to make the one server be located in EU, I wouldn’t even be able to play pve content, let alone pvp.

 

The next merge will herald the death of the game. I’d give it 12-18 months till it closed for good after another merge

Then maybe they need to make a ranked for new players to sharpen their teeth on, so they dont play with skilled players and learn how to play.

 

You get Arena pops in regs and you also have pre season. The only way you improve against better players is to play with/against skilled players. There are lots of variables that go into those situations that aren't really replicated in regs.

*edit to add* - You can also find someone willing to duel you in a stronghold or open world somewhere. Get someone who you think is a skilled PVPer and ask them if they would be willing to duel you.

Edited July 14, 2020 by -Bob-

"huttball popping so much" what universe is this and how do I get there? never had it pop once. all that ever pops are deathmatches.