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A Sawbones Guide to Alacrity


tintin_milou's Avatar


tintin_milou
12.23.2012 , 02:33 PM | #21
wow thanks for shairng your build!

I am surprise that you skip the 3% increase in critical. Well I guess there are only 41 skill points to go around. What is your total critical %? Maybe when I get enough criticals from mods & enhancements (now they are just 260), I will skip those critical-increase skill points and put them in increasing movement speed in scrapper tree.

I only do PVE contents and in some difficult OPS, I would very much like to move faster. The smuggler seems slow.

GHoppa's Avatar


GHoppa
12.23.2012 , 03:39 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by tintin_milou View Post
wow thanks for shairng your build!

I am surprise that you skip the 3% increase in critical. Well I guess there are only 41 skill points to go around. What is your total critical %? Maybe when I get enough criticals from mods & enhancements (now they are just 260), I will skip those critical-increase skill points and put them in increasing movement speed in scrapper tree.

I only do PVE contents and in some difficult OPS, I would very much like to move faster. The smuggler seems slow.
Without the 3% buff, my crit is close to 37% i can't remember exact numbers. The buff puts me just under 40%.

It's important to note that the build i listed was for PvP, where movement is much more important than 3% critical. For PvE, i would be running something a little different, and would take the 3% crit buff. Back in the day when you used to get 6% crit instead of 3%, the choice was alot tougher to make for pvp.

In either build though, i would take the alacrity bonus.

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
12.23.2012 , 03:51 PM | #23
I keep going back and forth on this.

My own Op is fairly new to 50, and as I'm usually tanking (or occasionally DPSing on my Marauder), the hardest thing I've healed to this point is TFB SM. I only have 3rd party data on anything harder, and don't claim to speak from firsthand healing experience in anything HM EC and up.

Channeled heals rarely exceed 15% of my total output, and even on harder content, the gents I run with rarely break 20% (maybe as high as 25% on Warlord Kephess or Kephess the Undying).

The marginal benefit of Alacrity is much lower when the percentage of healing impacted is accounted for.

I still want to test with higher values to get a subjective impression of the impact, but the math breaks down a bit with actual raid data factored in.

I don't necessarily agree that there is a strong mathematical case one way or another (based on raid data rather than formula optimization), but healing style and subjective preference most definitely have important roles in deciding Smuggler/Op healer gearing.

I *do* think that current game design doesn't reflect a world where Alacrity is clearly superior, and that there are very, very few situations that stress the output of multiple healers simultaneously (though Warlord Kephess in EC NiM is an obvious exception on that front). DTPS just isn't that high for the most part, and most burst healing phases are predicable and widely spaced. Plus, they tend to be configured in a way that 2 healers can dump healing into a single target in the vast majority of cases, which deflates the necessity for either to hit or maintain insane throughput.

Azaranth's Avatar


Azaranth
12.26.2012 , 12:08 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
Channeled heals rarely exceed 15% of my total output, and even on harder content, the gents I run with rarely break 20% (maybe as high as 25% on Warlord Kephess or Kephess the Undying).
This requires a little bit of a lengthy explanation:

Total healing output is actually a very poor measurement of a good healer. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but the actual question needs to be "Did anyone die?". Our class has several very efficient, moderate heals, which makes healing fights with low-level AoE or moderate incoming tank damage extremely easy. The important measuring stick for a healer should be how well they heal when things get crazy.

The same should be true for optimizing your gear. You shouldn't be optimizing to heal the easy parts of a fight. You should be tailoring your gear such that you can better heal the hardest healing encounters in the game. (Right now, the hardest thing to heal in the game is Nightmare EC Kephess - specifically the phase after he's left the walker, but before the big purple circle at 60%. During this phase, his sheer damage output - both on the tank, and the dot on the off-tank - is ridiculous. I honestly doubt that a Scoundrel with 600 Surge and 0 Alacrity could clear this phase)

During easy healing fights, I find that SRPM, KC and EMP make up like 80% of my total healing, and obviously alacrity doesn't matter there. I don't care though, because those are easy healing fights. However, as the healing demands of a given fight increase, you'll find that Underworld Medicine, Diagnostic Scan and even Kolto Pack become larger and larger percentage of my healing output. (Yes, I said Kolto Pack).

tl;dr - Alacrity is worthless till you need it, but when you need it there's nothing else like it.


Quote:
I *do* think that current game design doesn't reflect a world where Alacrity is clearly superior, and that there are very, very few situations that stress the output of multiple healers simultaneously (though Warlord Kephess in EC NiM is an obvious exception on that front). DTPS just isn't that high for the most part, and most burst healing phases are predicable and widely spaced. Plus, they tend to be configured in a way that 2 healers can dump healing into a single target in the vast majority of cases, which deflates the necessity for either to hit or maintain insane throughput.
I respectfully suggest that if the limit of your PVE Healing Experience is, as mentioned earlier, Story Mode TFB, you're not really qualified to comment on end game encounter design as it relates to healing needs. (Apologies if I misunderstood your earlier point)

I think you also fail to suggest a more reasonable alternative. The whole premise of taking roughly 300 alacrity is based off the math behind Surge being such a terrible stat. That's crucial to this discussion.

Let us take an extreme example of a HoT heavy rotation: 1x Kolto Cloud, 4x SRMP and 1x Diagnostic Scan. At current Best-in-Slot gearing levels, this block of heals averages 33030 (assuming KC hits 4 targets and there's no overheal - a best case scenario). Now, let's drop all 350 alacrity and add 350 more surge. Total average healing output of that same rotation: 33641.

Think about that for a second. By dropping 350 alacrity and picking up 350 more surge, you're gaining maybe ~600 total healing done across a ~10second window. And that's a nearly worst-case scenario for Alacrity. I think that's what people don't understand about this discussion. In patch 1.2, surge was nerfed so hard that stacking anything above 300 is very much a waste. I think anyone with an open mind would look at that data, and conclude that Alacrity is a far more sensible investment once you've hit ~250 surge.

jorill's Avatar


jorill
12.26.2012 , 10:44 PM | #25
Thank you for this post. Ive just started optimizing my gear but i was unclear where diminishing returns started to occur. I once though alacrity was kind of waste but then i had to heal in heavier fights where sometimes that .1 or .2 second was a big difference. I heal very differently in easier fightsn myself

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
12.27.2012 , 01:20 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Azaranth View Post
I respectfully suggest that if the limit of your PVE Healing Experience is, as mentioned earlier, Story Mode TFB, you're not really qualified to comment on end game encounter design as it relates to healing needs. (Apologies if I misunderstood your earlier point)
The whole post is chock full of good food for thought.

Just to be clear, I've tanked and DPS'd pretty much everything except NiM EC, and I'm a maniac about reviewing parse logs (part and parcel of being an effective Assassin/Shadow tank).

I don't claim to know the exact ins-and-outs of actually accomplishing the healing, but I do know when burst healing phases occur and about how much healing is required for all 8 man content except NiM EC.
Srs'bsns, GM of <Proper Villains> of The Ebon Hawk
5/5 Nightmare Power DF & DP
"This is why we don't bring Assassin tanks"

Azaranth's Avatar


Azaranth
12.27.2012 , 10:44 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
The whole post is chock full of good food for thought.

Just to be clear, I've tanked and DPS'd pretty much everything except NiM EC, and I'm a maniac about reviewing parse logs (part and parcel of being an effective Assassin/Shadow tank).

I don't claim to know the exact ins-and-outs of actually accomplishing the healing, but I do know when burst healing phases occur and about how much healing is required for all 8 man content except NiM EC.
Please don't take my post as condescending, it's not intended that way. Promise

Healing Nightmare Kephess (in the aforementioned phase where he's applying his crazy DoT) is unlike healing anything else in this game. As I stated earlier, I don't think it'd even be possible without alacrity. You have to keep your SRMPs rolling, but you're basically cycling Underworld Medicine+ EMP (and sometimes Kolto Pack, when things get dicey enough) nonstop through this phase. Hope you brought adrenals! This phase defines healing throughput.

Not that I think it has much to do with the overall conversation, other than to suggest that throughput is important, and that it's a big part of the hardest encounter in the game right now. Again, I propose that you gear up for the hard parts of the game, not the easier parts.

Ultimately, my conversation always circles back to the heart of the matter: Surge beyond 300 sucks way more than Alacrity sucks. If there was another tertiary stat worthy of consideration we might make this into an interesting debate about when and how Alacrity is useful. However, since it's only a question of Surge versus Alacrity, and the effects of Surge beyond 300 rating are negligible, Alacrity has to be the choice by default.

Genttry's Avatar


Genttry
03.30.2013 , 07:53 PM | #28
Hi Swtor community- as an ex SWTOR designer and coder, i can tell you that- while the OPs analysis seems plausible, the math is all wrong I'll post how everything really works with respect to the "3 tiers." Alacrity is, in fact, a silent stat that is meant to be undervalued at risk of developers having to re-evaluate the entire game dynamic. I'm only telling you this because the game is F2P now, and I lost my job so iIhave nothong to lose besides my subscription

If this post doesn't get deleted quickly, i will show you a graph and quote some internal emails re: the main stats to include alacrity, surge, rtc. Believe me, you will find this interesting! I am only doing this because i am a disgruntled ex-employee. Believe what I post at your own risk.

EDIT: I have a bridge I'd like to sell you after reading this post. I am joking! Good job OP.

edit: Is alacrity the same as cast speed?

Azaranth's Avatar


Azaranth
03.30.2013 , 08:11 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Genttry View Post
Hi Swtor community- as an ex SWTOR designer and coder, i can tell you that- while the OPs analysis seems plausible, the math is all wrong I'll post how everything really works with respect to the "3 tiers." Alacrity is, in fact, a silent stat that is meant to be undervalued at risk of developers having to re-evaluate the entire game dynamic. I'm only telling you this because the game is F2P now, and I lost my job so iIhave nothong to lose besides my subscription

If this post doesn't get deleted quickly, i will show you a graph and quote some internal emails re: the main stats to include alacrity, surge, rtc. Believe me, you will find this interesting! I am only doing this because i am a disgruntled ex-employee. Believe what I post at your own risk.

EDIT: I have a bridge I'd like to sell you after reading this post. I am joking! Good job OP.

edit: Is alacrity the same as cast speed?
April fools is still 2 days away!

Thanks for the bump, but it's worth noting that this entire thread, and all the math contained therein is going to be totally obsolete in just over a week when 2.0 launches. When things go live, if there's still a lot of confusion about alacrity, I'll consider updating this thread with new information - but I suspect there will be an extremely simple rule of thumb that goes something like "Acquire 350 Surge, then stack Alacrity after that). We'll know more in a few weeks

Voxx_Voltaare's Avatar


Voxx_Voltaare
04.01.2013 , 08:52 PM | #30
Yeah, alacrity is going to have a profound effect with 2.0, mostly because it will apply to the GCD and regen rate. While there will be some classes that will have to heavily weigh the benefits of alacrity on their skill set, I'd wager that for Sawbones, it should be a no-brainer.

That said, I have spent zero time on the PTS so I don't know what it looks like in application.
The Voltaare Legacy /// Harbinger
Ætheriä - SentinelDöctör-Stränge - Scoundrel