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Snipers are beyond broken but it's Sins who should be the ones to nerf ? Really ?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Snipers are beyond broken but it's Sins who should be the ones to nerf ? Really ?

happerycube's Avatar


happerycube
11.12.2019 , 12:02 PM | #1
First off, I'll point out that it's my first post here ever, Although I've been lurking for years.
Also, I main assassin. Just saying so that you stay on topic and won't have to dismiss my point telling me I may be biased because I'm doing it for you. Now that's it out of the way.

Here's something I don't understand: I think sin is actually in a good spot. It has like almost no defense, no way to reliably regen health mid combat like most classes and just do a fair amount of damage outside of the maul opener.
It is squishy but hits hard when it comes out of the shadows, that's in the name, Assassin. The class is literally good because of one rotation, not because of its individual skills.
Yet people already acts like it's something crazy just because the class can now reliably kill stuff ?

Somehow people don't seem to care that other classes such as the sniper is overloaded with endless powerful abilities. I mean, that class is a freaking fortress:

- Immunity to stuns as long as it's in cover FROM WHATEVER DIRECTION. Never understood why we can't stun them from behind their cover which is not even protecting their back.

- Can't interrupt any of their abilities when in cover.
The other day in the gree wz, there was this sniper sitting on the top of the gree conduit with his cover. He was capturing the point and there was nothing i could do to stop him because this class doesn't know what interrupt is. How is that fair?
I might have been able to interrupt his channeling though? I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong.

Can't gap close them with abilities such as force leap or whatever.

- Will bump you numerous times if you somehow survived the first attempt at reaching them.

- Stun grenade. If you get too close again, they'll stun you and take all their time to reposition to mow you down.

- Let's rock and roll. Did you still SOMEHOW got to them? They will roll away. What a joke.

At this point you are probably long dead but if you by any chance did manage to catch them and are on the verge of purging the galaxy of their existence. What will they do? Teleport away with their new skill of course! As if they didn't have enough ways to escape. The Benny Hill theme almost plays in my head every time I fight a sniper. I mean how many times do I have to run to them to finally do something to them ?
Don't get me wrong, I've killed some awful ones but man even the decent ones are a nightmare to deal with.

So yeah, it's just funny how sin gets all this attention while the objectively ridiculously OP class is flying under the radars.
Seriously, the only thing I find is broken about the sin the ability to change tactical after a force cloak, that I agree. But the class is nowhere OP. Powerful but not tedious to tske down like the sniper.
Even then, there are decent counters like En garde amplifiers. I've seen sorcs and sage using this stun that goes off when their barrier is destroyed and it has prevented me from using the opener numerous times since I get stun just after I come out of stealth and use spike.

/rant over.

Csjbo's Avatar


Csjbo
11.12.2019 , 12:40 PM | #2
There was a PVP podcast on twitch several days ago and when each member was asked which were the "Top 3" best classes in 6.0, snipers, along with lightning sorc were the two unanimous choices. People KNOW that snipers are strong, it's not a secret. Aside from the "phase-walk", all of your grievances....were around in 5.0. They didn't JUST get knockback root, or JUST get entrench CC immunity.

All that being said...do they need a nerf? Well, what exactly about them should be nerfed? The only thing I can think of is that their knockback doesn't need a root, not when they already have a root in leg shot. While their "phase-walk" is a good counter to diversion, it's CD is much longer than that of diversion so it won't always be there when a sniper needs it. Yellow damage dealers, Lightning Sorcs in particular still eat them up and in 6.0.....they may be the strongest class in PVP.
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Mycroft-Tarkin's Avatar


Mycroft-Tarkin
11.12.2019 , 12:51 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by happerycube View Post
- Can't interrupt any of their abilities when in cover.
The other day in the gree wz, there was this sniper sitting on the top of the gree conduit with his cover. He was capturing the point and there was nothing i could do to stop him because this class doesn't know what interrupt is. How is that fair?
I might have been able to interrupt his channeling though? I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong.
Using any direct attack will break cap casts on AHG, ACW, NC, Yavin, and Voidstar; you don't have to use an interrupt/knockback like you do on Odessen. In fact, in all my years of PvPing I don't think I've ever actually used an interrupt to break a cap

mrdert's Avatar


mrdert
11.12.2019 , 12:56 PM | #4
You’re absolutely correct. However this will fall mostly on deaf ears. I wouldn’t necessarily call any class broken currently, but snipers are indeed strong. So are Ops, mercs, and sorcs.
I’ve been in matches where snipers, ops, and mercs have landed 70k+ hits. I was also in a void star where, I presume, a madness spec managed to spread out 10,000,000 damage over the course of the match.

Bottom Line is people are upset because they can no longer just ignore an attacking assassin or op in like they did before 6.0. It’s also easier to get in the forums and cry for nerfs rather than figure out how to beat a glass cannon.
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JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
11.12.2019 , 12:58 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Csjbo View Post
There was a PVP podcast on twitch several days ago and when each member was asked which were the "Top 3" best classes in 6.0, snipers, along with lightning sorc were the two unanimous choices. People KNOW that snipers are strong, it's not a secret. Aside from the "phase-walk", all of your grievances....were around in 5.0. They didn't JUST get knockback root, or JUST get entrench CC immunity.
Those people must not have played much ranked yet (or are op/sin mains). Ops and sins are indisputably ahead of snipers and sorcs right now.

Quote: Originally Posted by Csjbo View Post
Lightning Sorcs in particular still eat them up and in 6.0.....they may be the strongest class in PVP.
While lightning sorcs seem pretty decent so far, this is a gross overstatement lol

Edit: I see the podcast you're referring to. Two of the players are mediocre and the other two are an op and a sin main. Not exactly a reliable resource by any stretch.

septru's Avatar


septru
11.12.2019 , 05:04 PM | #6
Everyone knows that phase walk is stupid. You don't have to argue that. Well established since they put it in the patch notes of PTS.
Everyone knows that closing distance on a sniper is difficult. You don't have to argue that. Well established since 5.0.
Everyone knows that Sniper is strong.

But you can't compare sins to snipers in order to justify that sins are not OP.
So let's break down your argument....

Quote: Originally Posted by happerycube View Post
Here's something I don't understand: I think sin is actually in a good spot. It has like almost no defense, no way to reliably regen health mid combat like most classes and just do a fair amount of damage outside of the maul opener.
It is squishy but hits hard when it comes out of the shadows, that's in the name, Assassin.
If you really want to compare yourself to another glass cannon, compare yourself to PTs. They do comparable damage. And yet they have much fewer DCDs than sin. SIN UNDOUBTEDLY HAS MORE DCDs THAN PTS. So if you want to really call yourself a glass cannon, you're gonna have to loose something.

Quote: Originally Posted by happerycube View Post
[Sin] is literally good because of one rotation, not because of its individual skills.
Yet people already acts like it's something crazy just because the class can now reliably kill stuff ?
No. People are acting crazy because sin has one ability, maul, that does an average of 40-60k dps, with outliers at 80k. And then you spam it over and over again until you kill shiaiit. It's that retaardedly dumb. All the other strong burst classes (operative and MM sniper) in 6.0 do an average of 30-50k dps burst windows with outliers at 60k. AND THEY CAN'T SPAM THEIR BURST Look very closely at those numbers.... 80k compared to 60k. Spammable vs nonspammable burst.

So you pick. Loose the burst, or loose the defensives. IMO the solution is simple: nerf maul to 30-50k averages with 60k outliers. And at that point maybe sins would stop maul spamming so they wouldn't run out of energy. Who knows.....

But don't defend sins as if they aren't OP. Caus they just are. The only thing you can do is acknowledge the facts, and hope Bioware doesn't nerf it because they are dumb, complacent, and don't actually know their own game.
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
11.12.2019 , 05:18 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by happerycube View Post
First off, I'll point out that it's my first post here ever, Although I've been lurking for years.
Also, I main assassin. Just saying so that you stay on topic and won't have to dismiss my point telling me I may be biased because I'm doing it for you. Now that's it out of the way.

Here's something I don't understand: I think sin is actually in a good spot. It has like almost no defense, no way to reliably regen health mid combat like most classes and just do a fair amount of damage outside of the maul opener.
It is squishy but hits hard when it comes out of the shadows, that's in the name, Assassin. The class is literally good because of one rotation, not because of its individual skills.
Yet people already acts like it's something crazy just because the class can now reliably kill stuff ?

Somehow people don't seem to care that other classes such as the sniper is overloaded with endless powerful abilities. I mean, that class is a freaking fortress:

- Immunity to stuns as long as it's in cover FROM WHATEVER DIRECTION. Never understood why we can't stun them from behind their cover which is not even protecting their back.

- Can't interrupt any of their abilities when in cover.
The other day in the gree wz, there was this sniper sitting on the top of the gree conduit with his cover. He was capturing the point and there was nothing i could do to stop him because this class doesn't know what interrupt is. How is that fair?
I might have been able to interrupt his channeling though? I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong.

Can't gap close them with abilities such as force leap or whatever.

- Will bump you numerous times if you somehow survived the first attempt at reaching them.

- Stun grenade. If you get too close again, they'll stun you and take all their time to reposition to mow you down.

- Let's rock and roll. Did you still SOMEHOW got to them? They will roll away. What a joke.

At this point you are probably long dead but if you by any chance did manage to catch them and are on the verge of purging the galaxy of their existence. What will they do? Teleport away with their new skill of course! As if they didn't have enough ways to escape. The Benny Hill theme almost plays in my head every time I fight a sniper. I mean how many times do I have to run to them to finally do something to them ?
Don't get me wrong, I've killed some awful ones but man even the decent ones are a nightmare to deal with.

So yeah, it's just funny how sin gets all this attention while the objectively ridiculously OP class is flying under the radars.
Seriously, the only thing I find is broken about the sin the ability to change tactical after a force cloak, that I agree. But the class is nowhere OP. Powerful but not tedious to tske down like the sniper.
Even then, there are decent counters like En garde amplifiers. I've seen sorcs and sage using this stun that goes off when their barrier is destroyed and it has prevented me from using the opener numerous times since I get stun just after I come out of stealth and use spike.

/rant over.
Pretty good first post

I think you hit the nail on the head. All this QQ about sins needing a nerf is ridiculous. Especially when they are sitting about the middle for balance.

There are other classes doing much better than sins at the moment.

If I had to guess, I would say a fair bit of the QQ is coming from the old FOTM merc players who have lost their status and now have to L2P.. I know for a fact that some of the loudest QQer’s on this forum for Sin Nerfs are self confessed MERC players. Which kind of supports that theory.

Ayushman's Avatar


Ayushman
11.12.2019 , 08:54 PM | #8
My two cents... from a jugg main.
Snipers need a nerf in in their talent/ability pool.
My three quick bars are less for their talent (Not Utilities) when I run my sniper.
I can work with their root/cc immunity, uninterruptible actions but the amount of usable things they have is simply too much.
That said sniper is a hard to master class.
So nub-cakes dies pretty quickly and mediocre players struggles to keep up.
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NogueiraA's Avatar


NogueiraA
11.13.2019 , 02:32 AM | #9
4 things to make snipers more balanced:
1 - remove their 4sec stun. It's a turret ranged class, they should never have a MELEE stun.
2 - Remove the damage reduction from Dodge, they are completely immortal during those almost 5secs of Dodge due to so much damage reduction from ONE skill.
3 - Remove the root from their knockback.
4 - Flash bang down to 6secs instead of 8.

It's a class that is supposed to be tanky and IMMOBILE with average damage.. But they are SUPER tanky, very mobile AND has insane damage, that is too freaking much for a ranged class that can't be leapt to, can't be interrupted and has perma crowd-control immunity.
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septru's Avatar


septru
11.13.2019 , 06:58 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
4 things to make snipers more balanced:
1 - remove their 4sec stun. It's a turret ranged class, they should never have a MELEE stun.
2 - Remove the damage reduction from Dodge, they are completely immortal during those almost 5secs of Dodge due to so much damage reduction from ONE skill.
3 - Remove the root from their knockback.
4 - Flash bang down to 6secs instead of 8.

It's a class that is supposed to be tanky and IMMOBILE with average damage.. But they are SUPER tanky, very mobile AND has insane damage, that is too freaking much for a ranged class that can't be leapt to, can't be interrupted and has perma crowd-control immunity.

You just complained that sniper is too mobile for a turret ranged class and yet suggested 4 changes that have nothing to do with its mobility.
-Prum, Satele Shan
"The real endgame is general chat."
The only real top 3 operative btw