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PuG Behavior in Flashpoints and Kicking


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Last night I was in a PuG doing HM Boarding Party. No words were exchanged by anyone as the FP started, and we defeated the first boss easily. Everyone was greeding on items, including me When we defeated the second boss, a mod dropped that I needed on, after everyone had greeded. (it was a good mod for my comp). Almost immediately a vote kick came up on me where I was called a ninja. I responded to give me a break, and the initiator said "why should I? Do you have a comp I don't know about?" After a ridiculous question like that I was like fine, I'll quit the group and he responded back fine with all of us and they kicked me. (I actually had transported back to fleet at that point). I put everyone in the PuG on ignore.

 

So my question is, without anyone defining "rules" up front in a PuG, was I out of line? I suppose I could have asked if anyone minded if I needed on it, but can't think of anything else I could have done.

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So my question is, without anyone defining "rules" up front in a PuG, was I out of line? I suppose I could have asked if anyone minded if I needed on it, but can't think of anything else I could have done.

 

IMO, yes. Need if for YOUR OWN char. If you want it for a comp, ask first. Other players have comps too.

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So my question is, without anyone defining "rules" up front in a PuG, was I out of line? .

 

No, you were not out of line at all, for the reason i put in bold.

Without any defined rules, and once everyone else had voted greed, you were fine.

You could have asked, and they might not have cared at all.

But they said nothing, either.

These are the same people that quit because people don't spacebar (quickly enough).

Forget 'em, be happy they're on ignore.

:)

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Greed for companion, don't care what anyone says.

 

However, that is no reason to kick someone for 1 act. They overreacted. However, if you want to avoid being call a ninja in the future, just ask. Personally I have never refused anyone in a PUG I have been in, even when I could have used the item too. If they want it, I will pass. Even if someone needs everything, I will not kick. I will however put them on all my toons ignore list.

 

I do also find it funny that people get in a group, but don't even take the time to type "Hi". And we get social points doing these.

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So my question is, without anyone defining "rules" up front in a PuG, was I out of line?

 

A bit from Column A and a bit from Column B.

 

I play at odd hours so I do a lot of PuG flashpoints and I can't remember the last time someone asked at any point to define loot rules. It's pretty much universally understood that Need is for stuff that goes on your back exclusively. Companion loot is greeded unless you really have the hots for a piece, then you ask first, in which case I've never heard a team say no.

 

On the other hand, kicking you over what most people would consider a relatively minor looting faux pas is a trollish move. I've seen newbs Need on the wrong gear a few times and they generally get a mind scolding about proper etiquette.

Edited by Flaminica
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I always ask if people care if I need even when I am the only scoundrel in the group. I think it's a matter of respect for strangers. I have never been told no, and have never said no to someone else. I have been lucky a few times where all the major loot was for my class, and it's gone the other way too. I find that 90% of the people I pug with are normally doing it for the BH comms anyways.

 

Asking takes 3 seconds and saves a world of trouble.

 

"May I need for self?"

"May I need for comp?"

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"May I need for self?"

"May I need for comp?"

 

The first question is always a 'yes' (Assuming you can use it - e.g. No needing on Aim gear on a Jedi). Anyone who thinks different is not someone you want to play with.

Edited by Master-Nala
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This sort of happended tome the other day. I just returned to the game and other day I did an EV raid. No loot rules were expressed when we started or when invited. I joined to get the feel of the game again. We got to the end and the raid speeder dropped. I didnt have it so i needed it. As soon as I won it 2 others sent me a tells saying everything is greeded out I cheated.

 

I told them nobody informed me and nothing was expressed when it dropped. The person who invited me didnt say anything about it was just the random pug invites didnt like it. They stated it common server rules all is greeded out unless it class armor need.

 

Umm is their some new server rule put inplace I dont know of?

 

It was an item i didnt have and could use. It's not my fault you didnt roll need and their were no loot rules stated upfront.

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stuff like speeders, pets or the Karagga's hat should be rolled need by everyone that wants it and can use it. I messed up on this before. Everyone rolled need for karagga's hat, so I rolled too. Did not think about that at the time my Miraluka shadow could not wear the hat. Since then I pretty much pass on all that stuff. My main has two boats already and my shadow has a bell hat that looks stupid on her. Edited by mikebevo
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This sort of happended tome the other day. I just returned to the game and other day I did an EV raid. No loot rules were expressed when we started or when invited. I joined to get the feel of the game again. We got to the end and the raid speeder dropped. I didnt have it so i needed it. As soon as I won it 2 others sent me a tells saying everything is greeded out I cheated.

 

I told them nobody informed me and nothing was expressed when it dropped. The person who invited me didnt say anything about it was just the random pug invites didnt like it. They stated it common server rules all is greeded out unless it class armor need.

 

Umm is their some new server rule put inplace I dont know of?

 

It was an item i didnt have and could use. It's not my fault you didnt roll need and their were no loot rules stated upfront.

 

There's no server rule about needing on speeders. If you're not in a guild and nobody says anything in your PuG group, then you're not at fault at all. lol. Way I used to run it in my old guild was that if you had already gotten a speeder from a raid, you can't need on any other speeders that drop, even if it's a different one. They're vanity items, may as well give them to as many different people as possible.

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Depends on group composition. If the DPS and healers all have ~20k health, they probably wouldn't even notice. They're probably only in there for the comms to buy a black hole piece with a single mod or enhancement they didn't get in the stock campaign. Honestly, if you needed anything in a group with any of my 50s, I wouldn't notice.

 

To be safe, ask first. I've never seen a group say no when someone does.

 

Will say this, though. If you need for an item that isn't for your class, but was needed by a guy with that class who's in the group, I'd agree to kick you. That's a major no-no.

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Will say this, though. If you need for an item that isn't for your class, but was needed by a guy with that class who's in the group, I'd agree to kick you. That's a major no-no.

 

I'd agree with one caveat: Now that BoP items are tradeable I'd overlook the trespass with a stern warning if the offender immediately returned the item to other player. A refusal would get a /kick and an /ignore.

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Me personally think both parties took it to far :eek:

but not being there i can only say what i probably would have done in your place.

what my guild does is if your going to need on something that is not for your main spec usually that person asks in either party chat or ops chat depending on what you are in. If no one has any problems go right ahead then.

But putting people on ignore list just because they voted to kick you from a hm group isn't really worth it in my opinion.

Second the other party members probably shouldn't have voted to kick with out asking what or why you needed on it. Most hm's ive been running in the group finder have been the players are OP (over powered) for the hm and they dont really care about it as they are just running it for the BH comms. so there you have it. that's mine opinion on what happen to you.

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Ridiculous! Loot is so easy to get in this game, I can't believe people QQing about something that they already rolled greed on. This is why I don't like grouping or playing in PUGs. Gear drops aren't even rare in FPs, they are guaranteed every time. I could see if u were a different class rolling on something that someone actually needed for their main but gimme a break. Edited by MorgonKara
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Man u guys should have played SWG where some items had like a <1% drop rate. I must have run the HK-47 Mustafar Volcano 200 times before I got the Old Republic hilt. Being a ninja in that game was taken real serious. u would get blacklisted on the server forums. Getting loot gear in TOR is stupid easy. Edited by MorgonKara
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Oh yeah and we used the honor system too, none of this need/greed crap. we took turns looting drops and we would decide who gets what before we started, all on free-for-all. none of this world of warcraft need/greed loot drama garbage :p people that play MMOs nowadays don't know how to play in groups with other people, its all insta-queue PUGs or soloing. /rant Edited by MorgonKara
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My guild uses need before greed.. Need if its going on your own back, greed if its for comps/alt spec/vendoring. As far as the rare items, like speeders and pets.. if you have it, pass. If you don't, need. If everyone has it, greed. Master looter helps in this aspect too.
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Oh yeah and we used the honor system too, none of this need/greed crap. we took turns looting drops and we would decide who gets what before we started, all on free-for-all. none of this world of warcraft need/greed loot drama garbage :p people that play MMOs nowadays don't know how to play in groups with other people, its all insta-queue PUGs or soloing. /rant

 

Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!

 

And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.

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A few simple rules solves all drama:

 

Roll need if needed for main spec

Ask if anyone minds if you want to roll need for off spec or companions

Greed if you can't use

Everyone roll need on rare vanity items

Master loot in ops or just don't bother with that group

If a newbie rolls need on something they shouldn't have tell them what they did wrong, if they do it again /ignore so you never get them in another pug. Met a lot of people who play the 'I'm a newb card' a few too many times.

 

These are the rules of single server grouping to make sure everyone is happy and people get invited back to future ops/groups.

 

WoW installed in people the 'dosen't matter, its a pug' attitude with cross server grouping and people forgot that pre-cross server those were the loot rules and anyone who didn't follow them soon got a bad reputation and never invited to anything ever again.

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No, you were not out of line at all, for the reason i put in bold.

Without any defined rules, and once everyone else had voted greed, you were fine.

You could have asked, and they might not have cared at all.

But they said nothing, either.

These are the same people that quit because people don't spacebar (quickly enough).

Forget 'em, be happy they're on ignore.

:)

 

You couldnt be more wrong. It doesnt matter whether its in a pug or not, the rules are "need" for yourself and "greed" for everything else. I learned that lesson the hard way ages ago on Kaas when I was like lvl 10 ,100% noob with my first char.

 

Seriously theres nothing more annoying than those ppl that want everything. "I want it for my companion!" So what? Everyone has companions. I normally even pass 95% of the time so other ppl can have it.

 

Imo theres nothing more embarrassing and undignified than arguing over loot. Same with money btw..

 

Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!

 

And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.

 

I read this like 10 times and so Im wondering, what the HECK are you talking about?

Edited by Sithcreep
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If there is even a question, i suggest greed rolling or asking first. Otherwise you are likely to get the boot.

 

Also, if everyone else in the group rolls greed on the Bind on Legacy drop that comes out, and you need roll. Dont be suprised if you get booted as well as ignored. If its a high ticket item or a BOE, pay attention to what your group members are doing.

 

I realize 1 person out of a whole server ignoreing you is really nothing when you think about it. Then again, when you are sitting in the que waiting for a tank, you only have yourself to blame.

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SWTOR does not have loot rules, STWOR has "need", "greed" and "pass".

When several players choose need or greed, a random roll determines who gets the item.

 

That's as fair as it can be.

 

Of course, you could make specific arrangements with your group.

But such arrangements are strictly voluntary and not enforcible.

 

In my opinion, there should only be "need" and "pass" - simpler is better:

 

If you want something you use "need" and let the random roll determine if you get it.

It is irrelevant if you can use the item or not - you did the work, so you are entitled to roll for it.

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