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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?


Dovahbrah

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honestly, no point in debating something we have no control over. we will get what we get.

 

those of us that are still playing Merc/Mando are likely doing it cuz we have found a way to excel at it. regardless of whatever bioware gives us, chances are we're still gonna find a way to excel.

 

true. skill > fotm kiddies. but, it's still mind-bottling.

 

i haven't played in a week (playing TSW w/ wife), and i don't really miss it.

 

i do miss the SW universe, my characters, PvP, and the fluid/intuitive gameplay. but, the more i've played lately, the more frustrated i have become.

 

and, tbh, it's refreshing. no more dailies, running the same FP for the 300th time, making hot laps on the fleet, complaining about the good ol' days (pre 1.2), and utter disappointment at the futility of the Merc class, my personal favorite...by far.

 

my passion for gaming, and MMO's in general, has been worn down. and this twitter poll, or w/e it is, is a prime example, as well as the continued lack of communication, bug fixes, added content, and west coast server issues.

 

the bottom line is $$$. not to create a highly entertaining game. i would love to be proved otherwise. but, all the facts, evidence, and history of this game just don't convince me.

 

once the fully-voiced MMO, kotor 3-10, fell on its face, and people ate thru the content, and 1.2 "ruined" PvP, what was left?

 

1 WZ, 2 FPs, and an OP in almost a year? server stability on the decline, MORE bugs, less content...i'm not a fluff guy. CC/FTP is nothing to me!! (i get it. i play w/ my wife, she cares more about how she looks, than how klunky a game is.) $$$

 

i guess my mind's made up. and i don't think Makeb, based on this game's history, is gonna win my heart back.

 

so much potential, pissed away. just like 98% of all MMO's the past decade. :( swallowed up by greed.

 

*EDIT* for spelling and content.

Edited by T-Assassin
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true. skill > fotm kiddies. but, it's still mind-bottling.

 

i haven't played in a week (playing TSW w/ wife), and i don't really miss it.

 

i do miss the SW universe, my characters, PvP, and the fluid/intuitive gameplay. but, the more i've played lately, the more frustrated i have become.

 

and, tbh, it's refreshing. no more dailies, running the same FP for the 300th time, making hot laps on the fleet, complaining about the good ol' days (pre 1.2), and utter disappointment at the futility of the Merc class, my personal favorite...by far.

 

my passion for gaming, and MMO's in general, has been worn down. and this twitter poll, or w/e it is, is a prime example, as well as the continued lack of communication, bug fixes, added content, and west coast server issues.

 

the bottom line is $$$. not to create a highly entertaining game. i would love to be proved otherwise. but, all the facts, evidence, and history of this game just don't convince me.

 

once the fully-voiced MMO, kotor 3-10, fell on its face, and people ate thru the content, and 1.2 "ruined" PvP, what was left?

 

1 WZ, 2 FPs, and an OP in almost a year? server stability on the decline, MORE bugs, less content...

 

i guess my mind's made up. and i don't think Makeb, based on this game's history, is gonna win my heart back.

 

so much potential, pissed away. just like 98% of all MMO's the past decade. :(

 

100% agree.

 

the fact this game is the only star wars mmo is really the only reason i am still playing

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pfft why you getting rickrolled?

 

make friends w/ a good mara. i played w/ one the other night, and he was peeling for me while i peeled for our healer. in like 6 warzones, the two of us put up >400k damage 4 times, and one of those was >500k. i outdamaged him in all but one hypergates where i got stuck guarding the first round and no enemies came to our pylon (still ended up w/ >400k tho:cool:)

 

I need to dust my merc off. I can remember having some good matches if there was someone else to grab all the attention. If I could make myself annoying as hell to pursue and not worry about damage for a little bit, they see bigger threats and would move on, but that would leave me some opportunity to do my thing.

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100% agree.

 

the fact this game is the only star wars mmo is really the only reason i am still playing

 

 

 

really not much out there...i'm not a fantasy guy.

 

but, i've been playing the secret world. it's a weird mix of left for dead meets magic the gathering...quite unique, but again, i'm not a D&D-type guy. (altho i did kill a hot, breasts out, dressed in leather demon npc...ok i killed a bunch...they were hot :p )

 

see what swtor has done to me!!!

 

AARRRGGGHHHH!!!

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really not much out there...i'm not a fantasy guy.

 

but, i've been playing the secret world. it's a weird mix of left for dead meets magic the gathering...quite unique, but again, i'm not a D&D-type guy. (altho i did kill a hot, breasts out, dressed in leather demon npc...ok i killed a bunch...they were hot :p )

 

see what swtor has done to me!!!

 

AARRRGGGHHHH!!!

 

lol

 

i tried TSW for a couple of weeks, and overall found it way to grindy for me. some of the story was interesting, but i couldnt get into it

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pfft why you getting rickrolled?

 

make friends w/ a good mara. i played w/ one the other night, and he was peeling for me while i peeled for our healer. in like 6 warzones, the two of us put up >400k damage 4 times, and one of those was >500k. i outdamaged him in all but one hypergates where i got stuck guarding the first round and no enemies came to our pylon (still ended up w/ >400k tho:cool:)

 

My server is sort of a hater place. If you suck they hate you, if you best them in warzones with a subpar class, they hate you. I don't think I have any maras on my friends list just ppl who chose the "play harder" classes/specs

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Well it's out. PvP developer Rob Hinkle Quote:

The classes I spend the most time with are a Lethality Sniper and a Pyrotech Powertech, with the Sniper being my “main.”

 

Wonder if this is why the worst pvp AC commando mercenary is ignored all year round

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20130117

Edited by Lord_Karsk
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What is your favorite part of working on PvP?

 

The best part of working on PvP is being able to play PvP. PvE challenges are nice, but nothing matches the difficulty of fighting other intelligent human beings. Being able to create that kind of environment for our players is extremely satisfying and I wouldn’t give it up for the world.

 

Class balance in MMOs with PvP is always a hot topic – how do you and your team approach it?

 

Lots of feedback from players, lots of theorycrafting, and a lot of playtesting. We feel like for the most part our class balance is pretty good, but it will never be perfect. We will always strive for better balance and making the classes more enjoyable, though it is a never-ending process of improvement.

 

What's that smell?

 

Smells like bull.

Edited by Bluntron
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When it comes to class balance and PvP, what do you think is the most common misperception and why do you think that is?

 

That the designers favor one class or another (or one faction or another). Not just in The Old Republic, but in almost every game I’ve worked on or played in, there develops a sentiment that the designers “hate” one class and “love” another class. Beyond being a terrible business idea, all of the members of the team play different classes, so even if we wanted to favor one class over another there would be internal conflict on what class that would be.  I understand why it happens, when players see their class issues go unresolved while other classes get fixes and improvements, but I promise you it has nothing to do with what class we have chosen to like more than others.

 

 

 

So, we can all safely assume the DEV team have all agree to hate merc/mando.

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So, we can all safely assume the DEV team have all agree to hate merc/mando.

 

do you think it is hate, or lack of understanding why the class is underperforming? or perhaps, they have no idea how to balance the class without fear of making it completely OP.

 

i think even the most basic PvP'r knows, keep moving if you want to live. the exception being sniper/gs, due to the mechaincs of the class. uniterruptable, cannot jump to, excellent CC/KB/root.

 

there was even a cheesy computer gaming design commercial on for years, the closing was "and we all know what happens when you stand still" (paraphrased) to which the screen blinked out, meant to simulate death.

 

yet these designers continue to ignore the gross imbalance between casting classes and instant/uniterruptable classes. this pertains to both PvE and PvP...PvP moreso.

 

*EDIT* still irrelevant to me, since i cannot PvP from 5pm-12am CST, due to being on a west coast server :(

Edited by T-Assassin
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So, I never go Aresnal right....Always played Pyro.

 

 

So playing tracer spam, I find myself being able to go against saber wielders but classes like pyro merc or snipers seem to best me. (If I dont have proper Cds etc)

 

Honestly, I cant complain unless 4 ppl jump on me at once and shut me out completely.

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So, I never go Aresnal right....Always played Pyro.

 

 

So playing tracer spam, I find myself being able to go against saber wielders but classes like pyro merc or snipers seem to best me. (If I dont have proper Cds etc)

 

Honestly, I cant complain unless 4 ppl jump on me at once and shut me out completely.

 

9/10 melee opponents interrupt w/e they see first. baiting w/ power shot is pretty easy, and then you can stand their and face tank for 3 tracer missiles -> kb -> unload -> hsm and rs. at that point theyre probably dead. arsenal/gunnery is so poorly designed that its full rotation is usually longer than TTK. tracers crit for ~3k, unload can crit for close to 10k. thats 19k damage right there, and is really only 50% of your rotation.

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What’s the biggest challenge you have to face in your role?

 

Receiving feedback from players, by far. When you’ve got players on both sides of a combat, one of them will win and one of t"hem will lose, and no one likes losing. This can lead to emotional feedback, and we have to try to look at that feedback and get through any emotionally-driven comments to find what’s at the core of the issue. Even beyond that, almost every change we make will make some players happy and some players unhappy. We have to gauge the health of the game versus the health and happiness of our player base for almost every single change we make, no matter how minor it may be."

 

I am glad you are so cautious. However, without much emotion, many players already agree on the Mercenary situation. The health of the game would really benefit to some adjustments for Mercenaries.

 

Also I would like to meet the pvp Developer who plays Mercenaries as a main.

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9/10 melee opponents interrupt w/e they see first. baiting w/ power shot is pretty easy, and then you can stand their and face tank for 3 tracer missiles -> kb -> unload -> hsm and rs. at that point theyre probably dead. arsenal/gunnery is so poorly designed that its full rotation is usually longer than TTK. tracers crit for ~3k, unload can crit for close to 10k. thats 19k damage right there, and is really only 50% of your rotation.

 

^^^

 

you can get away with that on n00bs...which there are a ton of smash monkeys, which wasn't always the case. they were few and far between, "back in the day", and the good ones really, really stood out.

 

i've tried Arse, once, for 2 days. i know, i'm definitely NOT speaking as an expert of the spec, pyro, yes.

 

and maybe that was my problem. the face tanking. i couldn't do it!! i'm Ben Franklin (or his son, if u watch drunk history :p ) at kiting.

 

as Arse, when TM was interrupted, i was boned. again, no expert, but it seemed most skilled SW/JK just ate thru me.

 

my belief is any class that has to stand still and cast (and can be jumped to and interrupted) is already behind the 8-ball to players that understand others' class mechanics and know what to interrupt, and when.

 

and if they have multiple interrupts...well, that's just simple math.

 

that's what separates all these posts from fact vs. opinion to WZ vs. RWZ. s**t is real in RWZ, son!! :)

 

skilled player vs. skilled player, Merc doesn't have the tools, or perhaps has the tools, just not the right means to deliver them.

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do you think it is hate, or lack of understanding why the class is underperforming? or perhaps, they have no idea how to balance the class without fear of making it completely OP.

 

i think even the most basic PvP'r knows, keep moving if you want to live. the exception being sniper/gs, due to the mechaincs of the class. uniterruptable, cannot jump to, excellent CC/KB/root.

 

there was even a cheesy computer gaming design commercial on for years, the closing was "and we all know what happens when you stand still" (paraphrased) to which the screen blinked out, meant to simulate death.

 

yet these designers continue to ignore the gross imbalance between casting classes and instant/uniterruptable classes. this pertains to both PvE and PvP...PvP moreso.

 

*EDIT* still irrelevant to me, since i cannot PvP from 5pm-12am CST, due to being on a west coast server :(

 

Things like the stockstrike root lead me to believe that they simply don't understand the problems with the class at all. When we asked for a root on stockstrike we meant for it to be that in ADDITION to being a knockback.

 

Gunnery is a complete mess in PVP. You'll never make it truly viable as long as grav round can be interrupted. The whole spec depends on it too much. Plus, as someone said, with the boost to Demo Round being a debuff on the target it's lackluster burst (and it IS lackluster guys) is only compounded by the fact that you'll probably never get a full set of vortexes on the target because it will be dead. It's a beautiful PVE spec for simplicity and carving up operations bosses, but it's just horrible in PVP. Assault isn't much better though in all honesty. You can pump up numbers Tab Dotting, but you leave too much on the floor eliminating charged bolts from your rotation, and you don't have a good interrupt baiter in this spec either.

 

Bioware's opinion that all we need is a better escape and we can be "quite hard to kill" by pillar humping also shows that they just have no freaking clue. Even if we could get our damage out uninterrupted it won't make us ranked viable. Other classes can get out uninterrupted damage too. They can get out just as much, and some of them can get out a lot more in a big burst, and that's what matters in PVP. But other classes also have serious team utility that Commando lacks because BW is full of idiots who felt that heals were such a big utility that at one point they considered giving us an interrupt to be going too far. But they forgot that they deliberately made offheals non-viable without speccing into them to at least some extent.

 

At this point they probably look at the changes that are clearly needed and think it's either too much work or that that level of changes would make us OP, because they don't understand that we are so UP in the current metagame that changes that would instantly raise Sage to the undisputed king of PVP would only make commando finally ranked viable.

 

Fix your game BW.

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The commando class is broken PvP wise and is really not worth playing other than PvE.

 

People are stressing themselves out waiting for Bioware to make changes but...

 

Don't hold your breath is all I will say.

 

I am just hoping that ONE day this game gets shut down and a REAL developer makes a REAL Star Wars game.

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The commando class is broken PvP wise and is really not worth playing other than PvE.

 

People are stressing themselves out waiting for Bioware to make changes but...

 

Don't hold your breath is all I will say.

 

I am just hoping that ONE day this game gets shut down and a REAL developer makes a REAL Star Wars game.

 

2 relative flops in the terms of expectations of Star Wars MMOs. I wouldn't hold my breath for another attempt.

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9/10 melee opponents interrupt w/e they see first. baiting w/ power shot is pretty easy, and then you can stand their and face tank for 3 tracer missiles -> kb -> unload -> hsm and rs. at that point theyre probably dead. arsenal/gunnery is so poorly designed that its full rotation is usually longer than TTK. tracers crit for ~3k, unload can crit for close to 10k. thats 19k damage right there, and is really only 50% of your rotation.

 

10k unloads huh? I guess we shouldn't really cry about our dmg, form what I know thats hardest hitting move in the game, not even smashes hit for 10k. But I wouldnt know all I have is my Merc atm. So its all I do.

 

I was wondering what would be better Unloard, RS, or HSM after the tracers.

Do you guys nornally Unload if it procs before the 3 tracers? Because I normally proc an unload right after my first tracer. I never played it so I am just going off common sense of compacting as much dmg as possible in a small time frame. So I try to fit in as many unloads as possible

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^^^

 

you can get away with that on n00bs...which there are a ton of smash monkeys, which wasn't always the case. they were few and far between, "back in the day", and the good ones really, really stood out.

 

i've tried Arse, once, for 2 days. i know, i'm definitely NOT speaking as an expert of the spec, pyro, yes.

 

and maybe that was my problem. the face tanking. i couldn't do it!! i'm Ben Franklin (or his son, if u watch drunk history :p ) at kiting.

 

as Arse, when TM was interrupted, i was boned. again, no expert, but it seemed most skilled SW/JK just ate thru me.

 

my belief is any class that has to stand still and cast (and can be jumped to and interrupted) is already behind the 8-ball to players that understand others' class mechanics and know what to interrupt, and when.

 

and if they have multiple interrupts...well, that's just simple math.

 

that's what separates all these posts from fact vs. opinion to WZ vs. RWZ. s**t is real in RWZ, son!! :)

 

skilled player vs. skilled player, Merc doesn't have the tools, or perhaps has the tools, just not the right means to deliver them.

 

The only way I found to kite with ARS that is decent enough is trade tracer with MB, And you only Tracer when they get close enough to RP them and apply the root, kb them fits in another tracer or unload. Pretty much you PS a FM, ED, RS and HSM at the same time ED goes off. Its do able and works best on ops/smug dps, just keep RP and KB on CD for them and Sins/Shades and you do a good enough job. Most times you can lower their health to a point the player starts to panic and slip up, making them second guess their rotation.

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10k unloads huh? I guess we shouldn't really cry about our dmg, form what I know thats hardest hitting move in the game, not even smashes hit for 10k. But I wouldnt know all I have is my Merc atm. So its all I do.

 

I was wondering what would be better Unloard, RS, or HSM after the tracers.

Do you guys nornally Unload if it procs before the 3 tracers? Because I normally proc an unload right after my first tracer. I never played it so I am just going off common sense of compacting as much dmg as possible in a small time frame. So I try to fit in as many unloads as possible

 

when i play arsenal i usually wait for the full 5 stack. your base 65% armor pen on Unload, plus reducing your opponents armor by a further 20%. cant go wrong their.

 

and yeah, when i crit with unload its ~3-3.5k. i think ive had it happen 3 times where all 3 ticks were crits. needless to say the target melted. definitely one of the highest damage potential abilities in the game, but it is woefully vulnerable to being interrupted.

 

ps. you should avoid using Missile Blast as much as possible. 25 heat for 1.5k damage is just bad. the only time i will use it is if the target has ~1-2k health left and i am on the run

Edited by cashogy
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2 relative flops in the terms of expectations of Star Wars MMOs. I wouldn't hold my breath for another attempt.

 

They need to make another attempt. Star wars is just too epic to leave alone.

 

Blizzard should make this attempt. 3rd times the charm

lolol

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