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2.0 DPS results for all classes


Gyronamics

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PTS subforum is being wiped today. This may be worth saving for reference.

 

Chart of results: http://s23.postimg.org/wnp1gcerf/tmp.png

 

A = 2.0 Augments

B = 2.0 Biochem items

72 = L72 Main or Offhand

 

Rules were:

 

Level 55 Operations dummy, fleet or ship

No interference from other classes e.g. armour debuff

Info on DPS tree used/Hybrid split

5 mins + of parse, the end can be cropped but not the start

Declare PTS Biochem and Augmentation

Declare 69 or 72 power gearing

 

 

Read this developer reply on why DPS is what it is for each class: http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

 

 

Commando/Mercenary

 

2727 DPS Gunnery/Arsenal: http://www.torparse.com/a/157721 A B 72

2660 DPS Gunnery/Arsenal: http://www.torparse.com/a/154435/3/0/Overview B

2567 DPS Assault/Pyrotech: http://www.torparse.com/a/170247/1/0/Damage+Dealt A B

 

Vanguard/Powertech

 

2741 DPS Hybrid: http://www.torparse.com/a/172583/1/0/Overview A B

2592 DPS Tactics/Advanced Powertech: http://www.torparse.com/a/172594/1/0/Overview A B

2546 DPS Assault/Pyrotech: http://www.torparse.com/a/164237/time/1363399228/1363399608/0/Damage+Dealt A B

 

Sage/Sorc

 

2661 DPS Telekinetics/Lightning: http://www.torparse.com/a/167334/3/0/Overview A B

2610 DPS Balance/Madness: http://www.torparse.com/a/162821 A B

2502 DPS Hybrid: http://www.torparse.com/a/161780/time/1363150052/1363150436/0/Overview A B

 

Shadow/Assassin

 

2438 DPS Balance/Madness: http://www.torparse.com/a/169616/time/1363911711/1363912017/0/Damage+Dealt A B

2401 DPS Infiltration/Deception: http://www.torparse.com/a/154619/time/1362497703/1362498084/0/Damage+Dealt A B

2203 DPS Hybrid: http://www.torparse.com/a/151083/time/1362239855/1362240244/0/Overview A

 

Guardian/Jugg

 

2524 DPS Vigilance/Vengeance: http://www.torparse.com/a/155865/time/1362588129/1362588565/0/Damage+Dealt

2515 DPS Focus/Rage: http://www.torparse.com/a/163761/2/0/Overview B

 

Sentinel/Marauder

 

2826 DPS Watchman/Annihilation: http://www.torparse.com/a/171179/time/1364189675/1364189970/0/Overview A B 72

2704 DPS Watchman/Annihilation: http://www.torparse.com/a/157734/time/1362801527/1362801835/0/Overview A B

2655 DPS Combat/Carnage: http://www.torparse.com/a/158168/time/1362760755/1362761202/0/Overview A B

Focus/Rage - needs parses

 

Scoundrel/Operative

 

2520 DPS Dirty Fighting/Lethality: http://www.torparse.com/a/156596/time/1362716687/1362716987/0/Damage+Dealt B

2512 DPS Scrapper/Concealment: http://www.torparse.com/a/148080/time/1362059158/1362059458/0/Overview B

 

Gunslinger/Sniper

 

2951 DPS Saboteur/Engineering: http://www.torparse.com/a/151560/time/1362265581/1362265881/0/Overview *requires unusual circumstances

2742 DPS Hybrid: http://www.torparse.com/a/156884/2/0/Overview A B

2627 DPS Sharpshooter/Marksman: http://www.torparse.com/a/151715/time/1362362519/1362362820/0/Overview

2540 DPS Dirty Fighting/Lethality: http://www.torparse.com/a/155993/time/1362595294/1362595915/0/Overview

2467 DPS Saboteur/Engineering: http://www.torparse.com/a/160143/time/1362933693/1362934304/0/Overview

Edited by Gyronamics
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I would agree that classes like the assassin are a little undervalued on the operations dummy do to not being able to use their execute ability and not having an armor debuff. However, that does not make up the difference in damage and it is a poor excuse for not achieving class balance.
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Its sketchy balancing on what it might be able to do because what it really means is classes with the least requirements will be able to damage more reliably.

 

 

The best Assault Commando parse is 2567 DPS.

 

In theory given an armour debuff it will do 2655 DPS given that exact same parse.

 

In theory given an armour debuff and a target below 30% health it will be 2958 DPS, again same parse.

 

 

In other news, the original thread on the PTS forum got nuked randomly because many many other threads are still up in there.

Edited by Gyronamics
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Gyro, great work on the PTS forums with this thread.

 

I do notice a typo, however. You have either the wrong parse listed for Assault/Pyro, or you got the numbers wrong. Highest Assault/Pyro parse in that torparse link included was 2476 DPS.

Edited by ScytheEleven
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No typo.

 

The rules were 5 mins including the startup, this means you could specify a time within the parse of a minimum of 5 mins.

 

If you click the links in the list it will display either a whole parse or a parse with the end cut off but it will show the parse of that DPS listed.

 

If you then click the battles on the side of the torparse page it will remove the time limits and include the tail of the fight which was removed, this will probably be less than the DPS of the specified time section.

Edited by Gyronamics
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No typo.

 

The rules were 5 mins including the startup, this means you could specify a time within the parse of a minimum of 5 mins.

 

If you click the links in the list it will display either a whole parse or a parse with the end cut off but it will show the parse of that DPS listed.

 

If you then click the battles on the side of the torparse page it will remove the time limits and include the tail of the fight which was removed, this will probably be less than the DPS of the specified time section.

 

Ah, I see now. Sorry about that. Again, thanks for your work!

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Wish I knew why the highest Assassin DPS are doing less damage than the lowest parse for an Operative. :jawa_frown:

 

Because this is how the developers view it: http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

 

Apparently in a real fight assassins gain so much more damage they are fine.

 

I've already shown an example of an Assault Commando with armour debuff (increases about 100dps) and then at under 30% health (increases 300dps on top of 100dps from armour debuff).

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Because this is how the developers view it: http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

 

Apparently in a real fight assassins gain so much more damage they are fine.

 

I've already shown an example of an Assault Commando with armour debuff (increases about 100dps) and then at under 30% health (increases 300dps on top of 100dps from armour debuff).

 

Anyone else notice in what he points out that the Watchman/Annihilation is in the "brown" (more sever DPS inhibiting on the training dummy), and he classifies the Combat/Carnage performance on the combat dummy as light green (less sever DPS inhibiting on the training dummy), yet the Watchman/Annihilation seems to consistently out DPS the Combat/Carnage even under those circumstances? Holey mother of run-on sentences....Sorry about that.

 

Anyway. we have to assume parsed on a real boss that there would even be a greater gap between the two, given his criteria.

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I actually have a couple questions on the rules set for this.

Level 55 Operations dummy, fleet or ship

No interference from other classes e.g. armour debuff

Info on DPS tree used/Hybrid split

5 mins + of parse, the end can be cropped but not the start

Declare PTS Biochem and Augmentation

Declare 69 or 72 power gearing

 

First, the parse should have been done in the 'optimal' raid setting. Even the interview was stating that this was obvious flaw in the parsing. We never take just one dps to an operation. When were looking for the potential dps of a class in an operation we cannot ignore the optimal setting.

 

When we get another update with changes in classes, I would strongly recommend using the optimal raid setting not the solo raid dps number. All debuffs on target(and buffs) not just what a single class can bring.

 

Second, I really do not believe that a kill shot ability in the post 30% is part of the balancing act. That ability is completely irrelevant to a sustained parse. You don't take a dps for the last 30% of a fight nor does a fight start in <30%.

 

Third, has the fleet and ship dummy difference been fixed? I remember reading in another thread that the ship dummy had approximately a 10% difference in armor from the fleet. I wish I could find it but I believe the devs made a post acknowledging it as well.

 

While I thank you for all the work you put in. I cannot shake the problems of the parses.

Edited by Zeghrem
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When we get another update with changes in classes, I would strongly recommend using the optimal raid setting not the solo raid dps number. All debuffs on target(and buffs) not just what a single class can bring.

 

I agree this would be preferred, but it'd require getting 2 or 3 people together when doing parses, which may be harder to accomplish. Especially since some of the people posting in this thread, spent hours perfecting their rotation.

 

Second, I really do not believe that a kill shot ability in the post 30% is part of the balancing act. That ability is completely irrelevant to a sustained parse. You don't take a dps for the last 30% of a fight nor does a fight start in <30%.

 

If a class with executes gain 300dps for what is roughly one third of the fight, that averaged out on the entire fight is an additional 100dps. It's not insignificant. True, you don't bring people for the last 30%, butyou also don't bring people for the first 70%. The entire fight matters, and where DPS is concerned the average during the entire fight is what's interesting.

 

If anything the last 20% carries a bit more weight, given how Bioware designs a lot of fights these days with burn phases at the end.

 

Third, has the fleet and ship dummy difference been fixed? I remember reading in another thread that the ship dummy had approximately a 10% difference in armor from the fleet. I wish I could find it but I believe the devs made a post acknowledging it as well.

 

They have.

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In short:

 

I do not claim these parses to be anything other than solo DPS figures on a dummy.

 

Take them as what they are, I am very clear about how they were achieved and with the PTS closed the rules cannot be changed even if I wanted to.

 

You can expand them into raid DPS by calculating damage increases from armour debuffs or sub30 damage boosters. Some executes cannot be so easily worked in.

 

It is not perfect but it's a galactic leap of legitimacy over the proofless or badly parsed DPS claims I trawled through to get the data collecting started.

 

 

A longer version is:

 

First, the parse should have been done in the 'optimal' raid setting. Even the interview was stating that this was obvious flaw in the parsing. We never take just one dps to an operation. When were looking for the potential dps of a class in an operation we cannot ignore the optimal setting.

 

There is practical parse gathering and there is impractical parse gathering. See below:

 

When we get another update with changes in classes, I would strongly recommend using the optimal raid setting not the solo raid dps number. All debuffs on target(and buffs) not just what a single class can bring.

 

No.

 

The original thread was over 40 pages long, over 500 replies, over 50,000 views and still few or no parses came in for certain specs (Rage Marauder anyone?).

 

Those who entered parses often did many many parses to knock out the current hiscore with their own improved parse, this was important to encourage going for maxmum output.

 

To have every parse fully powered would require up to 3 people around every dummy for every parse.

 

Alternatively you can have guilds taking the piss and stacking marauders for eternal bloodthirst. This is what you let yourself in for when you say you want a more complex result.

 

Other hassles exist if anyone mentions collecting "average" DPS numbers.

 

It was solo and hiscores only for simplicity and encouragement to push the limits.

 

You can calculate from these numbers a raid scenario except some sub30 attacks which will have to be guesstimated at best.

 

Second, I really do not believe that a kill shot ability in the post 30% is part of the balancing act. That ability is completely irrelevant to a sustained parse. You don't take a dps for the last 30% of a fight nor does a fight start in <30%.

 

The developers say it is.

 

Third, has the fleet and ship dummy difference been fixed? I remember reading in another thread that the ship dummy had approximately a 10% difference in armor from the fleet. I wish I could find it but I believe the devs made a post acknowledging it as well.

 

The dummy was fixed about 2 weeks into the PTS which is approximately when I began collecting parses. I was very aware of dummy changes and no old parses from the ships dummy were permitted.

Edited by Gyronamics
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In short:

 

I do not claim these parses to be anything other than solo DPS figures on a dummy.

 

Take them as what they are, I am very clear about how they were achieved and with the PTS closed the rules cannot be changed even if I wanted to.

 

You can expand them into raid DPS by calculating damage increases from armour debuffs or sub30 damage boosters. Some executes cannot be so easily worked in.

 

It is not perfect but it's a galactic leap of legitimacy over the proofless or badly parsed DPS claims I trawled through to get the data collecting started.

 

 

A longer version is:

 

No.

 

The original thread was over 40 pages long, over 500 replies, over 50,000 views and still few or no parses came in for certain specs (Rage Marauder anyone?).

 

Those who entered parses often did many many parses to knock out the current hiscore with their own improved parse, this was important to encourage going for maxmum output.

 

To have every parse fully powered would require up to 3 people around every dummy for every parse.

 

Alternatively you can have guilds taking the piss and stacking marauders for eternal bloodthirst. This is what you let yourself in for when you say you want a more complex result.

 

Other hassles exist if anyone mentions collecting "average" DPS numbers.

 

It was solo and hiscores only for simplicity and encouragement to push the limits.

 

You can calculate from these numbers a raid scenario except some sub30 attacks which will have to be guesstimated at best.

 

 

 

The developers say it is.

 

Please do not take this as condemning of how you wanted to test as much as the community needing legitimate raid numbers instead of leader boards within the class on a dummy enemy.

 

I'm glad you did the work for it(I really do appreciate the effort) but what the parses amount to is a purely solo case in a raid scenario. They do not offer true insight into how a class performs with the buffs the devs mention. I'm glad my shadow does really well on 55 champion enemies out on the planet. That does not tell me anything about how the class performs when with other classes in a raid environment. We have the whole forum screaming the sky is falling on shadow/assassin when this is likely furthest from the truth. Every time I see a post saying were 200-300 behind the next lowest it just becomes a "hnnnnnnng, WHY? WHERE? HOW ARE YOU GETTING TO THAT? STOP!".

 

As a leaderboard this is a fair step in the right way. When I see forum posters try to take these as legitimate numbers and use them against devs, I just feel awful for devs.

 

Yes I know the 30% was added into their calculations. What I mean is that I cannot believe that they actually balanced classes around that final 30%. I consider that just awful design. Personally. Hurrah, you're disappointing for the majority of the fight but that last 30% you are above average. It is awful design and I cannot wrap my head around it.

Edited by Zeghrem
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The numbers coming out of that dummy are what people will see when this goes live.

 

We can see from the indirect developer response to the listing of dummy parses that only two specs can consider the numbers they get from a dummy as correct.

 

The answer should not be *get more people involved for one to accurately operate the DPS checking tool*

 

Neither should the answer be *smother any posting of dummy DPS with disclaimers that they are not fully accurate*

 

While I do my own calculations to roughly work out "raid dps" it's unreasonable to have to do this.

 

If the developers want less grief when people check their damage output on the provided dummy they need to make a more complex version which can toggle certain assumed raid buffs and frankly, die, to permit sub30 talents to be shown.

Edited by Gyronamics
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Out of curiosity what is the best fight to compare DPS classes in raid settings. I am thinking Bonetrasher as the whole fight is pretty much just a non-stop spank, you can even ignore the Manka Cats and just have a tank deal with them. other options are Karraga (very little in terms of wasted DPS or target switching), Gharj (most people move at the same time so the DPS uptime should be the same for almost everyone), XRR-3 (unless some people are off healing, instant cast classes can get a slight edge during mortar phase) or Vorgath (a slight edge can be gained by ranged classes). Most other fights either have too many adds, mechanics that lock out players for a period of time or mechanics that skew DPS based on individual roles.

 

It won't really be until raids are run in 2.0 and people compare their MoX results that we will know any actual balance. Parses on dummies are just that, parses on dummies, even live DPS leaderboards acknowledge that some classes suffer without armour reductions and executes.

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