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A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)


Daemonson

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After reading a few dozen pages, I have to chime in because there are a lot of incorrect numbers thrown out

(by the supporters of the repair costs as well as the opponents):

 

Please check this thread for some genuine test values (yes, I'm shamelessly promoting my own work :D):

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=598636

 

As it is, my recommendation to everyone who wants to save on repair costs:

Re-mod to PVP shells or cheap (by sales price) crafted Orange shells for weapons/armor.

If you are a fresh 50 with no resources, use free Recruit Gear rather than free Tionese.

 

DO NOT use Cartel Armor, DO NOT use high-end PVE armor (Dread, etc) and DO NOT use Legacy armor!

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After reading a few dozen pages, I have to chime in because there are a lot of incorrect numbers thrown out

(by the supporters of the repair costs as well as the opponents):

 

Please check this thread for some genuine test values (yes, I'm shamelessly promoting my own work :D):

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=598636

 

As it is, my recommendation to everyone who wants to save on repair costs:

Re-mod to PVP shells or cheap (by sales price) crafted Orange shells for weapons/armor.

If you are a fresh 50 with no resources, use free Recruit Gear rather than free Tionese.

 

DO NOT use Cartel Armor, DO NOT use high-end PVE armor (Dread, etc) and DO NOT use Legacy armor!

 

 

i 100% support this, however in 4 days i will no longer be a subscriber and do not plan to until they either fix this, or the huge lack of communication this game has is addressed , aka * Yep, we messed up we should have used the PTS, we are working on a fix* instead its head in the sand and ignore their customers.

Edited by gamorrean
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Yesterday 1 wipe on nightmare explosive conflict, 9k repair bill per attempt. Gear was 109/120 on my dread guard geared commando. The mobs you fight on the way to the first boss drops about 500 creds per group member. Today on hardmode xeno on my campaign geared shadow tank, same 9k repair per attempt. Gear was 72/80 to 80/80. Most of the dailies give a player 7k per quest. This doesn't make sense here. I'm not going to be doing the 1 plus daily needed for each attempt at end game content. I don't have the time. I would swap the mods if I had the creds to do it, but most of my toons only carry about 100k.
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I just found myself bailing on a H4 daily because we wiped several times, certain group members weren't learning from mistakes and my repair bill was already well in excess of what the mission was worth. I hated myself for bailing, and before the repair bill changes it's not something I would ever have considered doing, I'd have stuck around and tried to get everyone through it. But I could see further wipes and a huge repair bill incoming and didn't want to do lots more dailies just to cover it.

 

The change is anti-community and it is anti-fun. I can see no rational justification for it whatsoever, it does not improve the game, it makes it less fun, less social and less enjoyable to play. From now on I will probably stick to guild runs rather than attempt anything with a PUG.

 

If there's too much money in the game, then introduce some more expensive cosmetics and fluff for people to sink their creds into. There might be quite a lot of hyper rich players in the game, but the average player isn't sitting on a credit mountain. The repair bill does little to dent the accounts of the hyper rich and just penalises the average player.

 

Since all EA/Bioware seem to care about is money, it doesn't even make any sense from an economic point of view either because people are unsubbing because of it. How can it represent a worthwhile change for the players or for EA? It's a very poor situation all round.

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I just found myself bailing on a H4 daily because we wiped several times, certain group members weren't learning from mistakes and my repair bill was already well in excess of what the mission was worth. I hated myself for bailing, and before the repair bill changes it's not something I would ever have considered doing, I'd have stuck around and tried to get everyone through it. But I could see further wipes and a huge repair bill incoming and didn't want to do lots more dailies just to cover it.

 

And that's one of the major issues with this change. I tank on both sides of the faction fence, so I see it, and I get the bulk of the repair costs. I'll explain what needs to be done, and if the group does not learn, I have no other choice but to exit. Beforehand, I would have stuck around as long as I could, but now, the rope is very short. This change was not for the betterment of the community as a whole.

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1. The problem is not communication with new players. The problem is new players won't speak up for fear of being insta-kicked, then because they didn't speak up they cause a wipe. There could be several complicated, convoluted, community-driven fixes to this, but there's also an easy one: Put the repair costs back to where they don't factor into wipes.

 

2. Yeah, 20-30 times is excessive but it doesn't take anywhere near that many wipes to get to 250k per person.

 

3. False assumption on your part. I'm Casual. I've raided quite extensively in this game. I was able to do so because it didn't require the grind that other games did to get consumables and credits to fund the raiding. It's one of the big appeals to me as a casual player - I can do challenging content without doing the tedious, boring garbage. It makes the game worth the subscription fee. If I'm now forced to grind or burn more real money to get the credits to fund my gameplay, I'm forced to reconsider the value of the subscription. Which, in my case and many others, we've done and EA will within 30 days see the full impact of that reconsideration.

 

EDIT: I guess when that last comes fully into play, those people who support the hideous repair costs - you know, the ones who've nothing better to do than grind dailies on a team of 50's all day - they'll finally have the control over the raid content that they so dearly covet. But that's not going to be good for the game.

 

1. why do the new players have to speak up, can't we ask?

 

2. That is the price of admission for the gear you will get out of it. If you can charge millions of credits over and over for crafting, you have to have a cost to obtain that schematic.

 

3. If you do something extensively, that would make you a hardcore player. And you should reconsider if that is all you do, it would be so much cheaper to buy the weekly passes than pay EA $15 a month.

 

And for he record, I only have one level 50. I do stuff with my guildmates should they need a level 50 tank, which is often. I don't do anything but weeklies and still have enough money to spend frivolously. I was around for beta and the repair costs are now in line with the costs during beta.

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You may have missed the multiple posts in which I state that repair costs should be based on item mods and not the shell, and that this needs to be fixed.

I personally don't care what are their internal calculations based on, they can use char level or a random roll for all I care - its the resulting sum which matters. Currently its way too high, which affects my gameplay, as I'm forced to do the content I do not like, and restrcits me from doing those parts of the game I enjoy. If it stays like that, I'll loose interest fast, unsub and quit - and its not really some angry rant, just a fact.

 

And you know what, if a significant portion of us casual gamers quits, all of you dedicated gamers will whine how the game is underpopulated, economy is dead etc etc. And seriously, its not like we're asking to simplify some of the game aspects, but return everything to the state which worked perfectly for everyone in the past months - I don't remember anyone complaining how the repair costs are too low and should be adjusted, while I know plenty of bugs we're are asking to fix since release and nobody cares. And yup, I did play the game on release, and absurd repair costs was one of the reasons are originally quit.

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But... we're assuming that destroying credits was the reason EA implemented this "bug fix". That gives them credit for thinking ahead, which is probably far too much credit. It also means they are foolish because, at least on one server, there is deflation.

Exactly, I don't really see a reason for any new extreme money sinks (especially so clumsy), there are plenty of vanity, convenience and progression items over there to waste loads of money on, and I think that most casual players don't in fact make any excessive amounts of cash to begin with.

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1. why do the new players have to speak up, can't we ask?

 

2. That is the price of admission for the gear you will get out of it. If you can charge millions of credits over and over for crafting, you have to have a cost to obtain that schematic.

 

3. If you do something extensively, that would make you a hardcore player. And you should reconsider if that is all you do, it would be so much cheaper to buy the weekly passes than pay EA $15 a month.

 

And for he record, I only have one level 50. I do stuff with my guildmates should they need a level 50 tank, which is often. I don't do anything but weeklies and still have enough money to spend frivolously. I was around for beta and the repair costs are now in line with the costs during beta.

 

1. The point is it doesn't matter if he says it or you ask, it won't be admitted for fear of being booted regardless who initiates the conversation. I know you have been playing since beta and can spend money frivolously but not all play styles can hence the 1,100 posts here. As you can read in multiple posts, it's already happening with people leaving groups as they are going broke in repairs due to multiple wipes.

 

2. This is the price of admission, really? So what was the price before? I know you have been playing since beta and you do your weeklies along with helping others but many for some reason are annoyed that there is now a cost for "admission". Before this price most if not all were happy to grind for gear and credits for something extra on the market. It was an option, a choice. Regardless the entire game was accessible. But if we didn't grind it was ok we could still do flashpoint, raids, etc. Now, in order to access what we enjoy we must grind. You see it's no longer an option but a consuming grind that takes from our already limited time to be able to play. And yes maybe it is in line with what it was way back when cost wise. So, when they reduced it I bet you were first to complain, I will look for your post on the forums later. I apologize for poking like that but all joking aside there are a ton of bugs to fix and they choose to "correct" one that no one is complaining about and did no harm, now this fix is actually harming game play as people are stating through experience in the game.

3. I do space missions extensively so now I'm a hardcore player *nods* cool. Thank you for defining hardcore for the gaming community like that. Maybe its a hybrid "hardcore/casual" thing :D

 

This thread is not about any one person, you have no problem with the increased cost I'm ok with that. But it's clear that a great many do. I would hope you can respect that. This fix has hurt the game yet Bio says nothing. Over a 100 pages of posts and Bio says nothing. People are asking/begging/pleading for an explanation and Bio says nothing. A week has passed and Bio says nothing, Subs are being cancelled and Bio says nothing.

 

If Bio was to push back the cost it wouldn't bother you one bit just some more credits in your pocket. But it would help a fairly large group of gamers here to enjoy the entire scope of the game again. These people are not posting because they hate the game, they enjoy it and want to play.

 

And that's what this thread is about.

Edited by Cindron
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Hey folks,

 

I just wanted to step in here to let you know that we are actively investigating this and we will update you as soon as we have more information. We apologize for the inconvenience, but rest assured that we're looking into it.

 

I'm glad you're looking into it. I sure hope you're fixing it soon because my guild is just a casual guild, a lot of people only have time for the 3 progressing operations we're doing each week... And since we're only progressing, there are a lot of wipes. And our guild bank funds have already dropped under 2 mil credits, wich can get fatal if it isn't fixed real soon. It would mean we just could not do any operations anymore and that would suck because we love doing them. :(

 

Anyways I hope you get it fixed reaaaal soon. :)

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Well.. they're looking at it.. ok but from where.. it seems they're way to far from the problem too do anything with it.

 

Com'on, 1 week since they applied 1.7, we've reported the problem from day 1 !!!!

How many hours did it take them to decide to apply all changes on the repair costs ?? only a few I'm sure.

 

So instead of doing a "fall back" on those changes and rework on the formula and make tests before reapplying any changes.. they just leave the problem as it is.. people keep complaining, cancelling subs and they're looking at the problem... The worse part is that they want us to believe that !

 

They do no intent to change anything and are only saving time, hoping that people will stop posting here.

You don't need a week of work to understand a problem which only took us few hours to see !!!

It's the only company who leave a problem in a game while they're trying to understand what they did wrong !

Amateur is that word people would use to describe such behavior.

 

I'm a true believer that everything in life has a price.. they'll certainly already see the bill with the "cancel subs".

And if you think twice about the way they handle the problem and the lack of communication, I think it's just a suicide knowing that Neverwinter Online and The elder Scrolls Online are just at the corner...

 

Anyway it's their game so they can do anything with it.. but ta the same time it's my time and my money and I can do whatever I want with them as well :p

Edited by Raiders
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I continued my test.

 

Previously with BoL Sand people gear (lvl 1 and credit cheap) the repair costs were minimal.

 

Now, with Gree event BoL gear (lvl 45) and more expensive credit cost for the item:

 

The repair cost skyrocketed. aiMazing. :tran_eek:

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The tank in my guild is in full DG and has a 30k-40k repair bill after 2 whipes. Are you a tank in full DG?

I am a tank in full DG and am looking at about 30k for two wipes.

 

1. why do the new players have to speak up, can't we ask?

I always ask and I rarely get an answer. When I do get it, it's not really straightforward and truthful. Loaded random TFE with my BH Vanguard tank yesterday. Got a random guild group that was missing a tank. Since they weren't sporting 20k+ health I asked if everyone was familiar with the FP or were they new and inexperienced. Replies were slow but they said they were fine.

 

One fell down on the jump. Sentinel told me his CC doesn't work on champion droids. Then he got killed by that Trandoshan's boss AoE. None of them used CC or followed the kill order. I had to ask them to follow weak-to-strong kill order twice; not much effect. I even marked targets to be CC'd and after persuading the sent to even try to use his on a champ droid, the guy leapt in and broke his own marked CC.

 

What I'm saying is - even if you ask, there's no guarantee you'll be getting an honest answer.

 

2. That is the price of admission for the gear you will get out of it. If you can charge millions of credits over and over for crafting, you have to have a cost to obtain that schematic.

Don't know what server you play on but crafters on The Red Eclipse do not ask for a fee; primarily because of one guild. The players love it and it's really easy to cover your expenses by selling crits. The only two instances when a fee is asked are the DG earpieces/implants and relics.

 

And for he record, I only have one level 50. I do stuff with my guildmates should they need a level 50 tank, which is often. I don't do anything but weeklies and still have enough money to spend frivolously. I was around for beta and the repair costs are now in line with the costs during beta.

It amazes me how people still think that this is a valid argument in defending current repair costs.

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Snips for the sake of rereading, regarding pick up groups.

I always ask and I rarely get an answer. When I do get it, it's not really straightforward and truthful.

 

What I'm saying is - even if you ask, there's no guarantee you'll be getting an honest answer.

 

Ran into a similar situation yesterday during a Direct 7 HM. On more than one occasion someone pulled aggro from a mob in which I had to quickly run back to grab aggro and keep the person from dying.

 

Once we arrived to Bulwark, I asked specifically in group chat. "Does everyone know what to do here"? It took roughly seven seconds before I received a single response. I thought to myself, if we wipe, I'm done. I specifically asked, so it's on the other two if they fail to do their part.

 

Keep in mind, there's nothing hard in that room, but for someone that does not understand, it can, and often will be, a very long and tedious sequence. We did beat it, and once we arrived to the final Boss, we had no issues, so the group did know what they were doing.

 

 

In short:

Communication in pick up groups is minimal as it is. This "bug fix" is widening an already existing gap among players due to exponentially higher repair costs. Cause and effect quickly comes to mind.

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So.. I just did Xeno II yesterday... 2 wipes, brought him down the 3rd time.

 

People kept leaving.. Some after the first wipe, some the second, some when they saw there were group members with only tionese or who were doing it for the first time... We spent so much time trying to get people to replace the ones leaving :(

 

Anyway as for repair costs 2 wipes 23k credits.... now this is more than before the bug fix bot not an insane amount per wipe like i was seeing before, and I have not changed a thing in my gear.

 

Anyone else experiencing this or is it just me? Have they implemented any stealth partial fix maybe?

 

Im wearing ALL oranges with 60% BH 40% columi

 

Chest is lvl 50 orange, Pants is Alderaan social, gloves, boots etc are of various levels.

Edited by BaronV
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Keep in mind, there's nothing hard in that room, but for someone that does not understand, it can, and often will be, a very long and tedious sequence. We did beat it, and once we arrived to the final Boss, we had no issues, so the group did know what they were doing.

 

Bulwark always makes me sad. I mean, people in full BH not interrupting Bulwark Smash... Sentinels killing the little repair droids instead of cc'ing them... Not even asking directly helps. :(

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Bulwark always makes me sad. I mean, people in full BH not interrupting Bulwark Smash... Sentinels killing the little repair droids instead of cc'ing them... Not even asking directly helps. :(

 

If you CC them, won't another set spawn when the timer hits anyway?

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CCing them saves a few seconds of dps. Not super important imo.

 

Yeah, that's been my experience but I haven't done that FP on HM in a while so just checking.

 

Back on topic, it seems like the posts here are slowing down. Have so many given up and left? Or stopped caring and gone back to playing and just dealing with it?

 

Me, I have ~24 days left on my now cancelled sub, hoping EA pipes up and says something, yet not daring to hope they'll fix it.

Edited by DarthTHC
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The problem with this credit sink is there is nothing tangible to go along with it. Give me a speeder or a convenient. Apply a cost to the quick travel each use. Like the 1k fleet passes. I don't complain because the service is worth 1k for the convieneience of travelling. Charge me for using world speeders. Charge me for quick travel. Stop with the insane raiding costs. It's gettig out of hand and theres nothing worse than spending money (real or fake) and getting nothing in return.
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i 100% support this, however in 4 days i will no longer be a subscriber and do not plan to until they either fix this, or the huge lack of communication this game has is addressed , aka * Yep, we messed up we should have used the PTS, we are working on a fix* instead its head in the sand and ignore their customers.

 

The window for fixing this is rapidly closing. Once the players that have unsubbed actually have their subs expire and get involved in other games they will be much less likely to come back once the devs decide to do their jobs.

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Back on topic, it seems like the posts here are slowing down. Have so many given up and left? Or stopped caring and gone back to playing and just dealing with it?

 

Me, I have ~24 days left on my now cancelled sub, hoping EA pipes up and says something, yet not daring to hope they'll fix it.

 

I dropped my sub as well. It's probably a combination of events slowing posts down. People have said all they can, now it's more about reporting their experiences in game and how its affected them which is great as it gives developers more to work with, if they are paying attention.. It's also probably a feeling disgust and anger with Bio refusing to say a single thing. I am guessing that sometime very soon they will announce a patch and there will be an adjustment of sorts and with that a large portion will be happy and satisfied. I like this game, it's just I've never seen such an apathetic company like this. Maybe it's their business model and I just don't understand it's intent.

Edited by Cindron
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I am guessing that sometime very soon they will announce a patch and there will be an adjustment of sorts and with that a large portion will be happy and satisfied. I like this game, it's just I've never seen such an apathetic company like this. Maybe it's their business model and I just don't understand it's intent.

 

I am afraid i do not share your optimism, I see this going either way a reduction or cartel surely it must have been spotted.

 

Just one response and no update very strange me thinks, I thought they had confirmed that this is working as intended?

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