Sitting on fleet today someone was spamming "LF 1 tank TFB guild run". I missed TFB in GF yesterday so I figured I'd join. It was a guild run so it should go pretty smoothly.

 

I joined the group and we went in. There was one other non-guild DPS in the group. The first boss went down fine, the DPS seemed a little slow but not too bad. When we got to the second boss, the group leader did a ready check, everyone hit ready, and then that's when all hell broke loose.

 

I took Kelsara and immediately realized something was wrong. Two DPS leapt with me and continued to bang on her even after I told them numerous times to attack Heirad. Somehow, Heirad finally died and then one guild member died to doom and then another. We ended up wiping so I asked if anyone hadn't done this before and got zero replies. Then I looked at everyone's achievements. Not a single one of the six guild members had ever done the op before. I then asked about that and finally the leader spoke up asking (more like assuming) if I would explain the op to them. Needless to say, I quit the group immediately.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind explaining ops to people and even have a text file on my desktop with instructions written so I can just copy / paste them into chat but there is no way I'm going to explain an entire op to a guild group where not a single person even bothered to look it up and just assumed someone would teach them the op.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Screaming_Ziva

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble. Edited March 8, 2018 by McBaal

It would be nice that the group or guild notify everyone not from their guild that they are new to the OPS and need some guide of the fight mechanic. For me I got used with PUG raid running from FF14 and BnS so I don't mind explain the fight mechanic in group chat but I do notify my group that I'm new to a dungeon/raid or I DID NOT pass some bosses with previous run, most of the time my group will tell me what to do and I just need to do and keep up my part on that fight and learn on the fly the rest of the mechanic.

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble.

Seriously? Six people in a guild formed a group expecting (not asking) someone to explain an op to them and you think I am the one without manners?

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble.

He got his point though, you can not join some group without notify them that you are not done it before. The group need to know that so they can either look for new members or explain the mechanic while filling up the raid group. I'm usually explain everything before we enter the raid, and always think the first wipe is a learning curve for new members and trust me I don't mine getting wipe in the raid as long everyone willing to learn and get it done all together.

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble.

 

I didn't see any bad manners.

 

Set aside whatever the OP's motivation for coming to the forums was...I don't wanna go down that rabbit hole.

 

If it went down exactly as described, there was no yelling, no belittling...just realization of a situation they didn't want to be in, and a quiet drop.

 

They could have stuck it out and explained it. But they had no obligation to do that, and they weren't under any obligation to explain why or justify the decision.

 

I don't blame them for feeling like it was assumed (without asking) that they'd do it. They had to persist just to get an answer and eventually be asked. I've been in that situation in other games, and I've gone both ways. Sometimes I stuck it out and tried to be helpful. Sometimes, it just wasn't worth it.

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble.

 

I don't see anyone with bad manners.. If i've been in pug groups with a guildie and the more expert of the two took the time and patience to explain. If I was besides myself I would explain.. If I'm joining a guild group that is pugging.. Sorry but they should know the fights, or have at a minimum researched them..

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble.

Same here. I mean, i dont think the op had particularly bad manners or anything, if we stick to what he described, he actually didnt show any bad manners, just left.

 

However, i've already seen my fair share of arrogance, elitism and also bad manners to cope with it anymore. It was the op's prerrogative to leave, as it is my prerrogative not to take part in group content in this game, never again.

 

Dont come later crying bc not enough people does group content, though. Serves you ppl right.

Had I been in the OP's position, depending on my mood, how much time I had, and if it was a relatively easy op like KP, or EV, I would have invited them into my guild's voice chat system and started explaining it. We explain everything every Wednesday night anyway as a guild (newbie op night). Edited March 9, 2018 by xordevoreaux

SNIP.... Not a single one of the six guild members had ever done the op before. I then asked about that and finally the leader spoke up asking (more like assuming) if I would explain the op to them. Needless to say, I quit the group immediately.

SNIP...

 

Your frustration is understandable. I can't figure out when gamers decided to not only to never look up a boss and know what to do or at least have some clue but now they expect someone to walk them through every encounter without doing any work themselves on finding out about the fight.

 

And if you leave because you don't want to spend the time, it's somehow your fault they are clueless and you are just an elitist for now spending your time telling them about every fight. Yet, they couldn't be bothered to spend their time and learn about it themselves. Even those that do better by actually doing it could stand to read up on it. At least they would know the terminology of whats going on.

 

I get why you might decide to leave once learned they just expected to you teach them all but never bothered to actually give you a heads up.

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble.

 

Agreed. Seems kind of rude. People wanted to learn. Now they'll all probably leave the game because toxic players.

Agreed. Seems kind of rude. People wanted to learn. Now they'll all probably leave the game because toxic players.

 

And as literally everyone else has pointed out, how was he toxic? He joined a group to do an op, not to teach it. If he had been invited in to "teach it" and then quit after a wipe, that's a different issue.

 

Almost every single person who runs ops or group content will be more than happy to explain how to do it, as long as they are told beforehand. Springing it on them after wiping is bad manners (or worse, you don't tell them and they find out by checking your achievements), and tells the person who is willing to explain that you actually aren't interested in learning.

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble.

 

Any chance of getting your in-game info? Toon or legacy name or something? In case I want to put you on one of my lists. Not the friend one. Don't worry about that

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble.

 

I dont think it’s unreasonable for the OPS leader to have atleast watched a YouTube video on it. Honestly, they all should have If it was their first time.

I’m mainly a pvper, but back when I did the occasional OPS with my then guild, I still took the time to watch something so I wouldn’t slow them down too much.

Maybe the op could have handle the situation better, but they aren’t at fault. The blame lands purely on the raid leader and partially on the rest. They could have at least said at the start that they’d never done it and did someone who had want to be the leader. Then the op could have bowed out gracefully or decided to help. But the op wasn’t given that option, so I can understand how they felt.

I actually wish people who’ve never pvp’d in this game till lvl 70, would go watch some YouTube on how the WZ mechanics work. There is nothing more frustrating than people running off and leaving stuff undefended or not calling incs or not passing the ball because they don’t know how the map works.

I dont mind teaching pvp in the lowest bracket, I put up with it a little in Mids, but I don’t tolerate it in lvl 70. I will leave matches when I see they don’t even know how the map mechanics work. Nobody has the time or patience to teach at lvl 70 because that’s end game for pvpers, you should already know what you are doing before you step into it. That’s what lowbies and Mids is for. Otherwise we may as well have the same pvp system as Guild Wars 2 and everyone gets boosted to lvl 70 with max gear and you get dropped into a very deep pool and need to learn not to drown. Let me tell you, that learn curve in GW2 is extreme if you try going in at lvl 20 and have never pvp’d in that game.

Agreed. Seems kind of rude. People wanted to learn. Now they'll all probably leave the game because toxic players.

 

How is that toxic? The blame falls squarely on the leader for not informing people they didn’t know the raid. You can’t be the leader if you don’t know 😉

How is that toxic? The blame falls squarely on the leader for not informing people they didn’t know the raid. You can’t be the leader if you don’t know 😉

 

Not necessarily toxic but a negative experience they will likely remember and it will color their future opinion of PUG/group players. There would have been nothing wrong with saying you didn't have time to teach them the operation but dropping right after they asked, without another word, would be somewhat rude if that was the way it happened.

People like you are the reason why i don't play group content. Too hard to find someone with good manners and neither worth my time nor the trouble.

 

So something isn’t worth your time nor your trouble and that’s ok but this person doesn’t want to waste their time nor their trouble explaining an entire operation to noobs who can’t even be considerate enough to mention they have never done it and somehow that’s *not* ok and you’re mad about that?

 

Hypocrite much?

And if they did say "will you teach us..." then the generativity** in me comes out (I'm 50).

 

**not to be confused with generous

 

 

 

If they said that, I can entirely believe they're all kids, and made an honest supplication to the OP.

Will you teach us...

I probably would. I'd gently explain people have expectations walking into an op, and yes, youngins, here is how you do this op, let's get started...

 

Kids don't always know how, or know that they must, communicate certain information or do so in a certain way.

Edited March 9, 2018 by xordevoreaux

Not necessarily toxic but a negative experience they will likely remember and it will color their future opinion of PUG/group players. There would have been nothing wrong with saying you didn't have time to teach them the operation but dropping right after they asked, without another word, would be somewhat rude if that was the way it happened.

 

What about the time the op wasted before it got to that point? I didn’t read they offered an apology? It works both ways you know. From my point of view, they were trying to pull the proverbial “wool” over the eyes of the op. That is a major negative experience for the op too. I would be angry and frustrated as well and I can fully understand the op’s knee jerk reaction to leaving. Especially after he did try to give directions before that second boss fight and was ignored.

The raid leader and his guild were definitely 100% to blame for the whole situation.

I also can’t see those guys not doing OPS anymore because they had this negative experience. They can always go as a guild, if they can be bothered to learn the raid first. If not, it’s probably better that they stay out of them altogether because they “will” ruin other people’s fun with the sort of attitude they displayed to the op.

Your frustration is understandable. I can't figure out when gamers decided to not only to never look up a boss and know what to do or at least have some clue but now they expect someone to walk them through every encounter without doing any work themselves on finding out about the fight.

 

And...we're back on the old treadmill. I'm familiar with how group content is supposed to work....but why should I "have" to look up how other people did it?

How is that toxic? The blame falls squarely on the leader for not informing people they didn’t know the raid. You can’t be the leader if you don’t know 😉

 

Some people wanted to have fun, run some content, and maybe learn something. Then OP just abandoned when it turned out that those people weren't on the same "level."

 

The issue is that all these people running raids expect everyone else to have run them, too. Then they get mad and ragequit when they realize that someone else is new at it. That's a big problem with raiding and I guarantee that it's why a good number of people simple won't get into it.

Some people wanted to have fun, run some content, and maybe learn something. Then OP just abandoned when it turned out that those people weren't on the same "level."

 

The issue is that all these people running raids expect everyone else to have run them, too. Then they get mad and ragequit when they realize that someone else is new at it. That's a big problem with raiding and I guarantee that it's why a good number of people simple won't get into it.

 

The OP was NOT running the raid. If you read their post you would see they joined a group that was all one guild and formed and running the raid themselves. They pugged him/her in. After they reached a later boss the OP realized the guild didn't know the raid. At no point was OP 'running' the raid.

Yes, expecting you to teach them without saying anything is rude. However, teaching them is the only way the raiding community is going to grow. Treating them the way you did does nothing but chase people away from raiding.

Some people wanted to have fun, run some content, and maybe learn something. Then OP just abandoned when it turned out that those people weren't on the same "level."

 

The issue is that all these people running raids expect everyone else to have run them, too. Then they get mad and ragequit when they realize that someone else is new at it. That's a big problem with raiding and I guarantee that it's why a good number of people simple won't get into it.

 

No, the op left for ledgitmate reasons and it’s soley the raid leaders fault for not informing him that they didn’t know the raid.

“If” they had informed him, he may have stayed and helped teach them. But they were sneaky and just expected him to teach. It’s not like it was in group finder and totally put. These guys spammed chat looking for someone to join.

He didn’t rage quit cause they were bad, he did it because he was deceived by their intentions of inviting him along.

I think it was extremely rude of them for what they did. Omission is the same as lying as far I’m concerned.

While I may understand the OP reason for quitting the raid, because of them not knowing the op, I do not think there was a reason for posting it on the forum. It should have been done and over with when the OP removed herself (?) from the operation and not brought to the forums, at least in my opinion.