Well considering that you guys are making changes that no one asked for yet again. How can we play how we want? You are taking away set bonuses that have been in game for 3 years. The new ones are nothing special that don't break the game but yet won't make endgame content playable (IMO). All the current set bonuses affect how DPS gets that extra boost from sets, Healers don't feel starved to keep the team alive, and how Tanks can keep the agro of the boss fights. You said during the stream that this is a play how you want to, but in actuality it's play how you want us to play under your rules.

Here is an idea for us to play how we want. Leave current set bonuses in game, introduce the new ones, and also bring back the pre 3.0 set bonuses. Make the bonuses stack at 3/5/7 combos. That way we can mix and match set bonuses. Heck I have seen since 3.0 set bonuses got introduced that people still used the pre 3.0 due to some of those bonuses. They are still in game so there is no reason this can't actually happen.

I'm inclined to cite a famous line attributed to Henry Ford...

"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."

-- Henry Ford, in a sales meeting in 1909.

It seems appropriate in this situation.

And yes, SteveTheCynic is showing signs of being a cynic. Why are you surprised?

Well considering that you guys are making changes that no one asked for yet again.

It all comes down to this, yes.

And yes, SteveTheCynic is showing signs of being a cynic. Why are you surprised?

What do you mean? Who is surprised?

Ontopic, I do not think that 6.0 enables me to play the way I want. The current PTS state actually makes me not want to play anymore.

I've been on this board since 2009, if I remember correctly. Except for when I was really angry about how they handled that one big exploit in early 2015, I have always been quite balanced: pro and contra.

But this, right now, the coming 6.0... all I have to say at this point is: total BS! Sorry.

I'll play Star Wars Puzzle on my phone now. That's more fun.

I’ve been waiting for the other shoe to drop since I heard “play your way” announced.

6.0 sounds more like “play your way as long as you play it the way we want”.

My response to changes on PTS

Crafting = absolutely terrible

Gearing complexity = bad

RNG = “Really Not Good”

Grind = when will they learn

Conquest = stop trying again

The only thing I’ve seen that I like is the seperate storage for mats. But even that’s not set up properly with sorting and layout.

They have a LOT of work to do before October 22nd for 6.0 to be a success. Fingers crossed they dial back the extremes on all of it by 80% and squash and bugs before release.

I'm inclined to cite a famous line attributed to Henry Ford...

 

"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."

-- Henry Ford, in a sales meeting in 1909.

 

It seems appropriate in this situation.

 

And yes, SteveTheCynic is showing signs of being a cynic. Why are you surprised?

LOL !!

I've hear that … and yeah very apropos !

Those of us who enjoy bass fishing have one that similar...

" Does the color you throw matter... nope as long as it's green! "

I have to meditate now …

Breathe in …. breathe out !!

UMMMMMMMMM !!!!!!

"Play your way," not "loot your way." There is a difference.

Except that..... in the grand scheme of 6.0, with its itemizations; BW idea is that people should change how they play with their gear of choice (its theirs idea, not mine, look at streams and early "itemization" posts). So, basically, how we loot is tied to how we play.

I am going to be honest.

I find all this immature handwringing and FUD nauseating.

I don't know if the devs are going to get it right - I really don't.

But what I do know?

THIS group, THIS KEITH-LED GROUP, has communicated with the players on PTS the entire time, has MADE CHANGES based on player feedback (see Tacticals from PTS1.5 to now), and has been communicating with us the ENTIRE TIME, even letting us know we may want to take a break from the PTS as they won't have the changes based on our feedback ready until next week.

People can shove all their Ben-Irving PTSD up their hindquarters for the way people are acting like immature children and carrying on like this game is the cure to cancer if only the developers would do EXACTLY as they say - and no, not exactly as the players say... oh no, no, no.

Exactly as THAT ONE INDIVIDUAL POSTER/ PLAYER says. And in those threads, those people will misrepresent themselves as representing ALL players, when really, they are only representing themselves. And let's say the developers DO listen to that one poster/player. Well hell, now you just pissed off about 500 for that one who thinks the developers should have listened EXACTLY to them instead, because those sole individuals each represent ALL PLAYERS even though every single one has a different idea about how the developers should go about making the game.

The narcisissm is nauseating.

And to cap it all off, I'd bet my house 80% (and that is a LOW estimate) of the people complaining aren't even ON PTS or haven't tested a dang thing, or if they have, spent 10 minutes, and then logged out, ranting that everything "sucks" without offering any real constructive feedback or details on what's bad and HOW it could be better. That, or they essentially want the entire game recoded with a brand new system of doing things in a month, and when confronted with the impossibility of that, claim it is possible because their cousin's brother's uncle Roger knows a programmer who coded an exact replica of World of Warcraft in 3 days...

Look.

I'll be the first to give it to the developers when they get it wrong. I've been MORE than harsh on many number of occasions.

But when they are responding to feedback, I'll admit my fear is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" attitude from them - after all, they ARE responding. Not as quick as we all like, and no telling if they will get it right, I will agree on that.

But they are at least trying this time, and to see the forums be this petulant is just disheartening. I actually had someone tell me on Reddit last month that their destructive and childish moaning helped the game more than those of us testing and giving constructive feedback - I can't even imagine the type of fantasy world a person lives in to believe something like that to be true...

I am going to be honest.

 

I find all this immature handwringing and FUD nauseating.

 

I don't know if the devs are going to get it right - I really don't.

 

But what I do know?

 

THIS group, THIS KEITH-LED GROUP, has communicated with the players on PTS the entire time, has MADE CHANGES based on player feedback (see Tacticals from PTS1.5 to now), and has been communicating with us the ENTIRE TIME, even letting us know we may want to take a break from the PTS as they won't have the changes based on our feedback ready until next week.

 

People can shove all their Ben-Irving PTSD up their hindquarters for the way people are acting like immature children and carrying on like this game is the cure to cancer if only the developers would do EXACTLY as they say - and no, not exactly as the players say... oh no, no, no.

 

Exactly as THAT ONE INDIVIDUAL POSTER/ PLAYER says. And in those threads, those people will misrepresent themselves as representing ALL players, when really, they are only representing themselves. And let's say the developers DO listen to that one poster/player. Well hell, now you just pissed off about 500 for that one who thinks the developers should have listened EXACTLY to them instead, because those sole individuals each represent ALL PLAYERS even though every single one has a different idea about how the developers should go about making the game.

 

The narcisissm is nauseating.

 

And to cap it all off, I'd bet my house 80% (and that is a LOW estimate) of the people complaining aren't even ON PTS or haven't tested a dang thing, or if they have, spent 10 minutes, and then logged out, ranting that everything "sucks" without offering any real constructive feedback or details on what's bad and HOW it could be better. That, or they essentially want the entire game recoded with a brand new system of doing things in a month, and when confronted with the impossibility of that, claim it is possible because their cousin's brother's uncle Roger knows a programmer who coded an exact replica of World of Warcraft in 3 days...

 

Look.

 

I'll be the first to give it to the developers when they get it wrong. I've been MORE than harsh on many number of occasions.

 

But when they are responding to feedback, I'll admit my fear is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" attitude from them - after all, they ARE responding. Not as quick as we all like, and no telling if they will get it right, I will agree on that.

 

But they are at least trying this time, and to see the forums be this petulant is just disheartening. I actually had someone tell me on Reddit last month that their destructive and childish moaning helped the game more than those of us testing and giving constructive feedback - I can't even imagine the type of fantasy world a person lives in to believe something like that to be true...

Yeah, but tell us how you really feel.

I am going to be honest.

 

I find all this immature handwringing and FUD nauseating.

 

I don't know if the devs are going to get it right - I really don't.

 

But what I do know?

 

THIS group, THIS KEITH-LED GROUP, has communicated with the players on PTS the entire time, has MADE CHANGES based on player feedback (see Tacticals from PTS1.5 to now), and has been communicating with us the ENTIRE TIME, even letting us know we may want to take a break from the PTS as they won't have the changes based on our feedback ready until next week.

 

People can shove all their Ben-Irving PTSD up their hindquarters for the way people are acting like immature children and carrying on like this game is the cure to cancer if only the developers would do EXACTLY as they say - and no, not exactly as the players say... oh no, no, no.

 

Exactly as THAT ONE INDIVIDUAL POSTER/ PLAYER says. And in those threads, those people will misrepresent themselves as representing ALL players, when really, they are only representing themselves. And let's say the developers DO listen to that one poster/player. Well hell, now you just pissed off about 500 for that one who thinks the developers should have listened EXACTLY to them instead, because those sole individuals each represent ALL PLAYERS even though every single one has a different idea about how the developers should go about making the game.

 

The narcisissm is nauseating.

 

And to cap it all off, I'd bet my house 80% (and that is a LOW estimate) of the people complaining aren't even ON PTS or haven't tested a dang thing, or if they have, spent 10 minutes, and then logged out, ranting that everything "sucks" without offering any real constructive feedback or details on what's bad and HOW it could be better. That, or they essentially want the entire game recoded with a brand new system of doing things in a month, and when confronted with the impossibility of that, claim it is possible because their cousin's brother's uncle Roger knows a programmer who coded an exact replica of World of Warcraft in 3 days...

 

Look.

 

I'll be the first to give it to the developers when they get it wrong. I've been MORE than harsh on many number of occasions.

 

But when they are responding to feedback, I'll admit my fear is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" attitude from them - after all, they ARE responding. Not as quick as we all like, and no telling if they will get it right, I will agree on that.

 

But they are at least trying this time, and to see the forums be this petulant is just disheartening. I actually had someone tell me on Reddit last month that their destructive and childish moaning helped the game more than those of us testing and giving constructive feedback - I can't even imagine the type of fantasy world a person lives in to believe something like that to be true...

Very amusing post...

Feels like you are just trying to look smart here.

The main feedback from this community in the last 3 years was : WE HATE RNG, WE DON"T WANT ANY MORE RNG

This was written a a lot of times in different forms in mature ways and immature ways....

I am 100% sure that most people on these forums truly believed that things in 6.0 will be different after the official announcement that we are getting Onslaught. And based on their podcasts on forum posts here I was inclined to believe them too...

When people first got the chance to test the upcoming gearing and to see that... despite all these years of feedback, we are still getting RNG, RNG that is worse than it ever was in 5.0 ? Worse than Ossus ? I never thought gearing can worse than the ossus one, but at least I can buy the piece I want by farming WB's and by grinding to death.. at least I feel rewarded. But in 6.0 ? That's terrible so far... but it's still in testing phase and I really really hope.. they get it right.

Peace

Except that..... in the grand scheme of 6.0, with its itemizations; BW idea is that people should change how they play with their gear of choice (its theirs idea, not mine, look at streams and early "itemization" posts). So, basically, how we loot is tied to how we play.

Nothing is stopping you from playing your way, within the ever-present game mechanics.

Very amusing post...

 

Feels like you are just trying to look smart here.

 

The main feedback from this community in the last 3 years was : WE HATE RNG, WE DON"T WANT ANY MORE RNG

 

This was written a a lot of times in different forms in mature ways and immature ways....

Read: the same 15 players have stated they dont like RNG 1 million times each over the past 3 years.

The rest of the thousands of players didnt say a thing.

Read: the same 15 players have stated they dont like RNG 1 million times each over the past 3 years.

 

The rest of the thousands of players didnt say a thing.

Thousands of players unsubbed to say how they felt. 6.0 will come out and we will have the choice to comment in the only way the devs will eventually come to understand...by unsubscribing. For a team that seemed to understand that 6.0 was the make or break point, they seem remarkably dense.

Read: the same 15 players have stated they dont like RNG 1 million times each over the past 3 years.

 

The rest of the thousands of players didnt say a thing.

They did say a thing by unsubbing... A lot of players left the game when 5.0 launched and the feedback was already very negative on these forums after they announced that " RNG will be exiciting" for 5.0....

4.0 had the best gearing that was easy for alts and easy to get. Players did not have to grind themselves to death to gear up to bis one character.

Also, I never in my wors nightmares have I imagined that they can come up with a gearing system that is worse than Ossus and so far it kinda looks that I would prefer to grind like I did on Ossus instead of this horrible system they want to implement.

I am still hopeful that we are still in the testing phase and this time they will ease up with their obsession for RNG gearing. It's destroying the game...

Also, I never in my wors nightmares have I imagined that they can come up with a gearing system that is worse than Ossus

I've seen one. Live, in an actual MMORPG.

Let's not mention the game's name, but I'll just say that its initials are "'ArcheAge". Oops

Once you reached a certain level of gear, the upgrade process went something like this:

* Shout "YOLO"(1) into global chat.

* Craft a "sealed" box containing a new piece of gear starting from this and that and the other ingredient, *including the old gear piece.

* Shout "YOLO" into global chat.

* Open the box.

The results could be any of the following, with "drop rates" that depended heavily on a variety of things, including which cash-shop buffs you had running:

* Gear one tier up.

* Gear two tiers up. (Extremely rare.)

* Gear at the same tier as before.

* Gear one tier down.

* Gear two tiers down. (I think this was possible.)

* Gear destroyed

The higher the initial tier, the more the results were biased toward the more negative outcomes. Cash shop buffs were available to bias the results the other way, but it was impossible to get rid of the "gear destroyed" chance.

Well, it was impossible until they just plain removed it from the game.

(1) "You Only Live Once". A war-cry of epic fatalism, denoting world-weary and blind indifference to the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. It was also used as an active verb in phrases like "I'm going to YOLO my grade 6 Obsidian gloves".

Thousands of players unsubbed to say how they felt. 6.0 will come out and we will have the choice to comment in the only way the devs will eventually come to understand...by unsubscribing. For a team that seemed to understand that 6.0 was the make or break point, they seem remarkably dense.

Please dont pretend to know how many left, and I wont pretend to know how many of them came back to the game regardless, or how many new subs they had since.

4.0 had the best gearing that was easy for alts and easy to get. Players did not have to grind themselves to death to gear up to bis one character.

I, and many others, respectfully disagree. Just because it was ideal to YOUR playstyle doesnt mean it is for all. I personally liked getting geared up for only 15 mins/week requirements of Ossus. Many others appreciate it as well. Each loot system is more ideal for a specific type of playstyle, so dont pretend to believe 4.0 was good for everyone.

I dont know how people cant see the gem that ossus was. It truly allowed the most time to play my way once that 15 minutes was completed. But maybe im the only one who understood the math of it.

I'm on the same page as most here about RNG in general - I hate it most of the time, but when the balance is JUST RIGHT, a little RNG is a good thing.

The direction the devs are moving PTS gearing is good - I'm seeing a high cost no RNG path plus low cost / free high RNG path with good (but not great) level mitigation. Thanks devs for listening and responding so far, no matter what people are saying, the fact is you've listened and implemented at least some things that we've pointed out / asked for, and I appreciate it.

So yay, things going in the right direction... but there are some LARGE caveats:

My first gripe is unmoddable gear - there is TOO MUCH. Get rid of all of it, most of it at least. Lvl 75 trash gear doesn't need to exist. I believe Eric addressed this, devs are looking into changes, but PTS doesn't reflect that yet.

Next gripe is tech fragment cap - it's ridiculous. Get rid of it altogether, or make it very high so we'd have to be seriously asleep at the wheel to hit the cap. The only thing this cap does is piss people off.

Next gripe is mods. Holy hell 20 variants per? Mods are a hot mess. Less variants, and a vendor that sells the ones we want/need for our gear. The rest can be RNG drops, but without mod vendors this is just not going to work.

Hey look at that! A system that is non-RNG with a high cost, plus RNG with low or free cost, so we can all get where we're going one way or another. Just like new bonus gear vendors + RNG vendor / lootdrops.

as of right now:

-there is more variety and flavor to play with in this gearing system with the different set bonuses and tacticals but there will probably be a strict meta / bis for both nim tier content as well as pvp/ranked - but these new tacticals and sets will mean you have to prepare different setups for single target / multitarget / pve/ and pvp.

-getting to item rating 306 in two days of hammer station solo veteran is actually pretty generous considering the equipment is legacy bound - much faster for say people who just play one role (dps/heals or tank) than current gearing system

-getting bis mods @ 306 and bis leftside is more of a pain but again it is legacy bound once you get it (much more generous than any other previous gearing system for alts)

-also the difference in dps/defense between bis version mods and ones with funky stat distribution (slightly more endurance/ power/ mastery/stats) will be minimal once you are at the bis gear item tier it won't affect your ability to clear nim content or be really the reason why you die in pvp.

-getting bis offhand /mainhand will be more difficult because it is not a piece you can buy from a vendor?

-getting the right amplifiers on gear can get ugly and expensive if you are aiming for the very best percentage points

-new augments will be very very expensive and/or rare with current proposed crafting - so unless you are a billionare your will be using old augs for a while

I’ve been waiting for the other shoe to drop since I heard “play your way” announced.

 

6.0 sounds more like “play your way as long as you play it the way we want”.

 

My response to changes on PTS

 

Crafting = absolutely terrible

Gearing complexity = bad

RNG = “Really Not Good”

Grind = when will they learn

Conquest = stop trying again

 

The only thing I’ve seen that I like is the seperate storage for mats. But even that’s not set up properly with sorting and layout.

 

They have a LOT of work to do before October 22nd for 6.0 to be a success. Fingers crossed they dial back the extremes on all of it by 80% and squash and bugs before release.

Not much to say more - I predict when thi gearing System will go live they loose a lot of subscriptions. A combination from Command System and Ossus would be fine - but this is terrible and drive away many solo and story players and if a minority of Nightmare Raiders are enough subscriptions for supporting the game - I dont think so.

I don't believe gearing will drive away NiM raiders. Yes as it currently stands there are some serious issue, but it's PTS, and devs HAVE been making changes based on feedback. I actually think gearing will be in a good place by the time exp releases, though perhaps not tuned all the way.

What I think will drive away NiM raiders more than anything else:

LEVEL SCALING of HM/NiM RAIDS

It's fundamentally flawed, and I haven't heard a single thing from devs to make me feel like there is any light at the end of this dark tunnel.

With the current scaling system of hard capped Mastery & Power stats, mods, relics, stims, & adrenals that are BiS in Level 75 content - i.e. new content ONLY - will be rendered useless at lower levels. So as soon as you leave Lvl 75 world, your current gear, stims, adrenals are very likely sub-optimal, meaning two sets of BiS gear and accessories.

Add to that the new stats curve that makes 1.3 GCD not worth it for most classes / disciplines, well to me this dwarfs the gearing system issues. Get BiS gear... but why bother if it's just going to be nerfed to hell in 99% of SWTOR content?

A few of the best NiM raiders I know have already let their subscriptions lapse specifically because of this.

BW would have to re-vamp how their level scaling is implemented. There are a few ways they could do that, some simple, some more complex. But the system they've chosen severely diminishes the raid experience in non Lvl 75 content for me (and I daresay those that have let their subscriptions lapse feel the same way).

The lack of any communication about this, other than some vague comments about still tuning adaptive scaling or whatever they're calling it, gives me little confidence and make me sad for the game since raiding is really all I'm here for at this point.

I've seen a few people bring this up in posts, but it's not got near the same amount of outrage as gearing has, even though no matter how well you get your toon geared, BW is going to nerf the living $@$& out of it in all but one raid & FP.

Not much to say more - I predict when thi gearing System will go live they loose a lot of subscriptions. A combination from Command System and Ossus would be fine - but this is terrible and drive away many solo and story players and if a minority of Nightmare Raiders are enough subscriptions for supporting the game - I dont think so.

I'm just waiting for the players who spent 5400CC on that vented lightsaber or special tunings, or worked really hard for a legacy weapon, to realize they can't equip those weapons if they want to upgrade their gear. That alone is going to lose subs and Cartel Market funds.

I don't do cosmetics so not on my mind typically, but that's a great point. They'd be cannibalizing their own CMwith all these trash unmoddable drops.

I strongly suspect we'll be seeing mod vendors of some kind, and Eric did write about the team revisiting moddable gear drop rates so if they can deliver there it should smooth out the cosmetics debate.

The bigger question is will CM weapons be legacy? Because if not, then I still won't buy any, as I move weapons around just like the rest of my gear. Or just do the right thing and make weapons part of the character designer skinnables.