Currently a Valor Rank 56 Operative Healer and while I know/agree that Operative healing is far inferior to Sorc/Sage it seems like DMG is really just spiraling out of control and that the trauma debuff is just destroying any kind of preventative healing I can do.

 

Classes should not exist that can out DPS dedicated healing on a single target, otherwise healers have no reason to exist in game. This hasn't been a problem thus far, but a geared Sorc/Sage/BH/Trooper DPS will force me to LOS them, there is no way for me to overcome the amount of DMG these classes can dish out, even just a single one.

 

It seems to me that leaving DPS unchecked and allowing Trauma (30% is just ridiculous) to exist is just absolutely game breaking now that the level 50 bracket is maturing(Gear, Gear, Gear). Good DPS players can absolutely obliterate my team mates, often leaving me without the opportunity to heal at all.

 

I think being an operative is a large part of the problem, as Sorcs seem to do quite well, probably due in no small part to their *very* powerful shields and quick reacting channeled heal. Hopefully some Mercs/Commandos/Sorc/Sages can chime in with their experiences.

 

Even wearing mostly Rakata (1850 Cunning, 85% Crit Multi, and 40% crit) Kolto probes crit for under 1000 because of the trauma debuff, effectively making them useless. Wearing Full champion gear only makes the problem worse as wearing approximately 5-7% expertise and having mostly PvE gear seems to be most effective for me personally.

 

Surgical Probe crits for ~3000 in the best of cases. This is my only instant heal (that requires a proc).

 

All I can really rely on to effectively save a person is Kolto Injection, which is 2s base cast. The sheer amount of energy cost and length of the cast makes it even worse as I can only expect to toss out a few of these per minute or go completely upside down on energy consumption.

 

It can crit quite hard, approximately 6000 or a bit more with adrenals/relic active in PvP, but this is just not enough.

 

It's easy to interrupt and there are classes with 6 second interrupts. Even a 10 second CD interrupt when I only have 1 real powerful heal is just absolutely debilitating. Being locked out from my main (and ONLY effective PvP heal) for 4 second is just an absolute nightmare. If two DPS that know how to interrupt find their way to me I'm done in a matter of seconds, regardless of how much Expertise i'm wearing.

 

On the flip side there are times when players are just laughably bad and can't DPS through the HOTS I've placed on my team, but as gear ramps up and FOTM is truly realized this is becoming less and less common.

 

 

Anyone can tracer/grav round spam. Anyone can spam lightning/rocks w/ auto slow. Where is my powerful healing to overcome these scenarios? How can I deal with SW/JK's doing massive 5-6k AoE's constantly in group fights? Where is my equivalent reactionary skills?

 

How am I supposed to heal someone when:

 

- They take 30% less healing

- There is a plethora of CC

- Knockbacks that equate to AoE interrupts as well as positioning

- Short CD interrupts that lock me out of my primary heal

- I have no defensive cooldowns

- DPS numbers far exceed healing numbers on single target

 

 

I felt overpowered playing in the 1-50 bracket when I was in full champion gear. Now playing in the lvl 50 bracket with full champion gear I often feel inadequate and unable to deal with the amount of DMG, CC, and interrupts.

 

I'm posting this to see how other specs/classes feel about the state of healing.

 

Currently I still feel influential in the game as a whole, and can certainly save players from certain death given enough time to prepare, but if someone manages to find themselves with more than 2 decent DPSers on them they'll die every time. This isn't because they CC the healer or have massive MS debuffs to counteract healing, this is because the amount of DMG they can do is so ridiculously high that they can just ignore my healing.

 

My overall healing done usually looks quite high at the end of a round (anywhere from 350-500k), but it doesn't feel very effective in the game, generally I'm just prolonging the inevitable death or something instead of actually having the ability to "save" them, or topping people off after they've already killed an opponent.

 

As an Operative the only way I can survive any type of focus fire is to go full on arena druid mode and just LOS around anything I can find like it's going out of style. This obviously prevents me from doing any significant healing on my team.

 

- Do DPS think taking trauma out of the PvP environment would make healers too powerful? Or perhaps, merely moving the debuff to 15% from 30% ?

 

- Do other geared healers have similar problems?

 

- Which healer are you least likely to kill quickly in a PvP environment? Which do you feel are usually an easy mark?

 

- In your opinion should a healer be able to keep a group member alive, even while they're under heavy sustained DMG (provided that they aren't CCed or interrupted)?

Edited January 29, 2012 by Sprigum

i think op healers were kind of doomed from the start by sharing a class with the "burst stealther" archetype

 

you end up with extremely low utility - both offensive and defensive - and a punishing resource system to limit sustained output (TA, and energy to a lesser extent), in order to keep concealment from being OP, especially in PVP.

 

interrupts are bad for ops because the resource cost on our flash heal is stupid, so we're incredibly reliant on kolto injection, and can be locked down effortlessly by interrupting classes.

Im a sage healer with 600 expertise and i know your pain. Good trinket using dps will kill faster than you can heal. Imo healing works great when you have tanks but without one its terrible.

i think op healers were kind of doomed from the start by sharing a class with the "burst stealther" archetype

 

you end up with extremely low utility - both offensive and defensive - and a punishing resource system to limit sustained output (TA, and energy to a lesser extent), in order to keep concealment from being OP, especially in PVP.

 

interrupts are bad for ops because the resource cost on our flash heal is stupid, so we're incredibly reliant on kolto injection, and can be locked down effortlessly by interrupting classes.

 

Although I can do quite well in PvE and I feel that I'm very competitive with our sorc healer, often landing 8500 Crits and generally being fast to react to DMG situations the disparity between the two classes is unacceptable.

 

Our other healer literally complains that he can't run out of his healing resource. So, not only are his heals stronger overall, his CD's better, his utility superior, but to ice the cake he never really has to stop casting.

 

How is this balanced? Mercs seems more equivalent to Operative in terms of throughput, but I'd MUCH rather have some of their mechanics (like Earthshield) than the HOT that I currently have.

 

It doesn't make sense to me as a healer. I'd be perfectly fine having some limitations and caveats, but it seems like I have all of them, and the predominant healing class has none of them.

 

Im a sage healer with 600 expertise and i know your pain. Good trinket using dps will kill faster than you can heal. Imo healing works great when you have tanks but without one its terrible.

 

 

This goes back to my point, but what role does a healer play in a PvP environment if they can't even survive one DPS? Should killing a healer require some sort of coordination? It's bad enough I can get stunned for 5+ seconds at a time (game breaking at times), but to not even be able to stand toe-to-toe with a DPS is just unacceptable. If I'm not equivalent to a DPS in heal throughput, then I may as well go DPS for all the good I'm doing.

 

God help us all if a Sage can't even survive DPS. There is really no hope for the rest of us.

 

Granted the game needs some balancing. PvP DMG needs to come down or PvP healing needs to go up, but we can't go nerfing PvE because of PvP issues. PvE is *very* damage centric.

 

I shouldn't require a guard the entire WZ to be an effective member of the team. I do a damn good job surviving on my operative, but I don't mind telling you I don't do it because my class is capable of it. I do it because I generally flat outplay my opponents.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Sprigum

Although I can do quite well in PvE and I feel that I'm very competitive with our sorc healer, often landing 8500 Crits and generally being fast to react to DMG situations the disparity between the two classes is unacceptable.

 

Our other healer literally complains that he can't run out of his healing resource. So, not only are his heals stronger overall, his CD's better, his utility superior, but to ice the cake he never really has to stop casting.

 

How is this balanced? Mercs seems more equivalent to Operative in terms of throughput, but I'd MUCH rather have some of their mechanics (like Earthshield) than the HOT that I currently have.

 

It doesn't make sense to me as a healer. I'd be perfectly fine having some limitations and caveats, but it seems like I have all of them, and the predominant healing class has none of them.

 

 

 

 

This goes back to my point, but what role does a healer play in a PvP environment if they can't even survive one DPS? Should killing a healer require some sort of coordination? It's bad enough I can get stunned for 5+ seconds at a time (game breaking at times), but to not even be able to stand toe-to-toe with a DPS is just unacceptable. If I'm not equivalent to a DPS in heal throughput, then I may as well go DPS for all the good I'm doing.

 

God help us all if a Sage can't even survive DPS. There is really no hope for the rest of us.

 

Granted the game needs some balancing. PvP DMG needs to come down or PvP healing needs to go up, but we can't go nerfing PvE because of PvP issues. PvE is *very* damage centric.

 

I shouldn't require a guard the entire WZ to be an effective member of the team. I do a damn good job surviving on my operative, but I don't mind telling you I don't do it because my class is capable of it. I do it because I generally flat outplay my opponents.

 

If you change it so you do not need guard.. Then what happens when you do get guard? Wouldn't that just make any healer with guard OP. You can't take that away from tanks.

 

One word.

 

Synergy.

 

Two words.

 

Team Game.

The issue is that Sorcerers/Sages have linear energy regeneration. Fix that and I think you'd bring them onto a par with Operatives/Scoundrels. You'd then probably be able to think about reducing the Trauma debuff, but as it stands... you can't really reduce that. Its hard enough to take down a trio of sorcerers as it is.

If you change it so you do not need guard.. Then what happens when you do get guard? Wouldn't that just make any healer with guard OP. You can't take that away from tanks.

 

One word.

 

Synergy.

 

Two words.

 

Team Game.

 

no, it would make it so teams actually have to coordinate focusing instead of being able to burn anyone down with only 2 good dps focusing.

i think op healers were kind of doomed from the start by sharing a class with the "burst stealther" archetype

 

you end up with extremely low utility - both offensive and defensive - and a punishing resource system to limit sustained output (TA, and energy to a lesser extent), in order to keep concealment from being OP, especially in PVP.

 

interrupts are bad for ops because the resource cost on our flash heal is stupid, so we're incredibly reliant on kolto injection, and can be locked down effortlessly by interrupting classes.

 

I suspect this is true. The 'scoring' system Gabe describes probably attributes a tremendous number of points to stealth. Stealth is of far less value to a healer than a burst-damage rogue-type, however.

 

Ops may not be viable healers.

If you change it so you do not need guard.. Then what happens when you do get guard? Wouldn't that just make any healer with guard OP. You can't take that away from tanks.

 

One word.

 

Synergy.

 

Two words.

 

Team Game.

 

So, Healers have to rely on a tank to constantly guard them, but its okay for a single DPS to blow everything up in a few seconds.

 

Makes sense!

 

Guard doesn't even always make a difference. I have two casted heals that anyone with a brain can interrupt and no mitigating CD's.

 

Not only can they be easily interrupted, but I get locked out for 4 seconds when they get interrupted. So my HOT that CRITS for 1100 every 3 seconds is supposed to keep me up when I can't cast anything 75% or more of the time, can't move, and even if I manage to somehow get a heal off I can certainly expect to get stunned, because guess what, proper combinations of stuns and knockbacks will allow you to kill the best player in the world, simply because DPS mechanics > Mine.

 

Two DPS = Two Interrupts and probably at least 3 stuns.

 

Even with guard I'm going to get totally destroyed.

 

Besides, isn't the point of guard that you KILL THE TANK and not focus down the guy with the effect?

 

If I need a pocket tank to be an effective healer (which won't help all that much outside survivability) then healers shouldn't be able to Solo Queue.

 

I suspect this is true. The 'scoring' system Gabe describes probably attributes a tremendous number of points to stealth. Stealth is of far less value to a healer than a burst-damage rogue-type, however.

 

Ops may not be viable healers.

 

We can't do anything in stealth except DPS, how the hell could that benefit our healing tree?

 

Besides that the entire spec is based around pre-hotting to supplement healing. I can't pre-hot from stealth.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Sprigum

no, it would make it so teams actually have to coordinate focusing instead of being able to burn anyone down with only 2 good dps focusing.

 

Also I don't know why people pick on sorceror healing, its not very good either. Everytime I see a trooper healer in my WZ he has pretty much doubled any other healers numbers. And don't take this as a nerf troopers. I think they are fine and other healing should be brought up to them.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Sgt_shades

I never want to hear an operative complain again. Really.

If you change it so you do not need guard.. Then what happens when you do get guard? Wouldn't that just make any healer with guard OP. You can't take that away from tanks.

 

One word.

 

Synergy.

 

Two words.

 

Team Game.

 

Team game correct, but dps don't need to team up on you take you down. The quick solution would be to keep the trauma buff in place but add a talent further in the healing trees that allows pure healers to heal themselves for 30% more. There are alot of classes that can hit you for over 5k, the only way to do that with healing is to pop relics and pvp potion. Which shouldn't be the solution because unless you crit, the heal was pretty much wasted.

I never want to hear an operative complain again. Really.

 

Aww, did someone stab you too hard?

 

Don't worry that'll be gone Tuesday I'm thinking.

 

We'll now have the worst spec for each respective role we can spec for.

 

What an honor.

The guy being focused, or you (as a healer) has to try to do something to help peel the enemy off him in that instance, whether by kiting, LOS, something.

 

I agree that it is very hard to keep up someone even if youre given uninterrupted time on him, in a 2v2 situation, just comparing DPS and HPS, but it is possible.

The guy being focused, or you (as a healer) has to try to do something to help peel the enemy off him in that instance, whether by kiting, LOS, something.

 

I agree that it is very hard to keep up someone even if youre given uninterrupted time on him, in a 2v2 situation, just comparing DPS and HPS, but it is possible.

 

Why should I have to completely and totally out-gear and outplay my opponents to be effective at my role?

 

I don't get it.

 

I understand you guys are saying, "The team can help you out!"

 

But it's not even the fact that I personally can't stay alive, because I honestly I'm quite good at LOSing and getting out of trouble, but it becomes impossible sometimes for me to save someone from even just two opponents.

 

As a healer I should be able to heal someone through 2 DPS.

 

2v2 where one side doesn't have a healer should be pretty unbalanced unless you interrupt the healer and CC him.

 

Currently you can just burn them straight down. If I don't get the RNG on my heals then it's a bust, because if I don't crit, people die.

Why should I have to completely and totally out-gear and outplay my opponents to be effective at my role?

 

I don't get it.

 

I understand you guys are saying, "The team can help you out!"

 

But it's not even the fact that I personally can't stay alive, because I honestly I'm quite good at LOSing and getting out of trouble, but it becomes impossible sometimes for me to save someone from even just two opponents.

 

As a healer I should be able to heal someone through 2 DPS.

 

2v2 where one side doesn't have a healer should be pretty unbalanced unless you interrupt the healer and CC him.

 

Currently you can just burn them straight down. If I don't get the RNG on my heals then it's a bust, because if I don't crit, people die.

 

No you shouldn't be able to heal through 2 DPS. That is what rational people would call absurd.

 

If a Healer can heal through 1 Tank's offensive onslaught that's fine but 1 DPS should be able to burn through a Healer's healing.

 

No one class should be able to go one on one with a DPS and soak it all up. That would render DPS absolutely worthless and unnecessary.

 

Allowing Healers to heal through a DPS's offensive would be like giving Healers the damage mitigation of a Tank.

 

Clearly you are not thinking about what you want and how it would affect overall gameplay.

I would like see them add more to the trauma buff, maybe something like 30% less heals - but 30% more crit chance or even all heals crit. That way healing is still reduced, but still effective. Right not as it is, when you don't crit it hurts you more than helps you. I say that because the few times you are able to cast a long heal and not be interrupted if you don't crit you could have probably just kept running and survived a few seconds longer. Right now if you want to play pure healer you really do need guard and competent players on your team that cc people beating on you.

No you shouldn't be able to heal through 2 DPS. That is what rational people would call absurd.

 

If a Healer can heal through 1 Tank's offensive onslaught that's fine but 1 DPS should be able to burn through a Healer's healing.

 

No one class should be able to go one on one with a DPS and soak it all up. That would render DPS absolutely worthless and unnecessary.

 

Allowing Healers to heal through a DPS's offensive would be like giving Healers the damage mitigation of a Tank.

 

Clearly you are not thinking about what you want and how it would affect overall gameplay.

 

That doesn't make sense.

 

If Healing ##'s = DPS ##'s then Healing doesn't even need to exist within the game. If I can't out heal even a single DPS then I'm effectively useless. I may as well spec DPS and kill the other guy twice as fast.

 

Have you played an MMO?

 

If this were true then Tanks would be FAR FAR more valuable than healers, via guard and taunt they provide upwards of 80% reduction in DMG.

 

The problem with the system is probably because of the taunt effect and combined guard effect. BW looks at that and says, well if it's possible then people will abuse it.

 

Here's the reality.

 

People use guard to get their 3 medals, then stop using it, unless in rare scenarios you get a decently tank in huttball.

 

Regardless using GUARD does NOT reduce incoming DMG from a healing standpoint, it merely spreads it out across two targets, which is even worse for me personally. Especially when there's 3 DPS beating on the guy with guard and both him and the tank are steadily dying.

 

I still need to do the SAME raw Healing per second to save those players from death, and I simply cannot do it.

No you shouldn't be able to heal through 2 DPS. That is what rational people would call absurd.

 

If a Healer can heal through 1 Tank's offensive onslaught that's fine but 1 DPS should be able to burn through a Healer's healing.

 

No one class should be able to go one on one with a DPS and soak it all up. That would render DPS absolutely worthless and unnecessary.

 

Allowing Healers to heal through a DPS's offensive would be like giving Healers the damage mitigation of a Tank.

 

Clearly you are not thinking about what you want and how it would affect overall gameplay.

 

Quite true, but healers run out of resources fairly quickly against really good dps, which in case doesn't mean they can out heal them forever. Too many people that play this game don't look at people resources, buffs, or even what they are casting. Most elite players will tell you healers are a joke, you only have to interrupt the heals that matter. They only shine in places where the terrain allows them to LoS or in mass battles where they are several healers.

I never want to hear an operative complain again. Really.

 

Such a well thought out argument.

The OP is spot on in his critique of end game PVP healing. Having a 50 Merc and played that horrible PVP end game I feel your pain, plain and simply all healers need some sort of defensive CD that will allow you to keep a heal rolling without fear of being interrupted.

 

To think or say otherwise that they don't is just plain idiotic, If I can dish out controlling effects as DPS to keep dpsing my target and then give myself Knock-back / CC immunity to once again keep dpsing my target, healers need the same.

 

Killing a healer should be a coordinated effort.

The OP is spot on in his critique of end game PVP healing. Having a 50 Merc and played that horrible PVP end game I feel your pain, plain and simply all healers need some sort of defensive CD that will allow you to keep a heal rolling without fear of being interrupted.

 

To think or say otherwise that they don't is just plain idiotic, If I can dish out controlling effects as DPS to keep dpsing my target and then give myself Knock-back / CC immunity to once again keep dpsing my target, healers need the same.

 

Killing a healer should be a coordinated effort.

 

I agree, all 31 point healing talents should be changed into a kb/cc/interrupt immunity CD

I agree, all 31 point healing talents should be changed into a kb/cc/interrupt immunity CD

 

Be a lot more useful than Recurperative Nanotech in its current state.

 

There is already too much CC in this game, throw in Interrupts, and the fact that snares aren't effected by Resolve and it quickly becomes impossible to heal against a well played DPS class.

 

Add in that Interrupts also grants a 4 sec silence to the only heal I have that's worth a damn and you start to see the problem.

 

I think this would just be a bandaid though. That CD is going to have a long reuse timer on it and it's not going to save you from stuns. So not a whole lot will really change.

Be a lot more useful than Recurperative Nanotech in its current state.

 

There is already too much CC in this game, throw in Interrupts, and the fact that snares aren't effected by Resolve and it quickly becomes impossible to heal against a well played DPS class.

 

Add in that Interrupts also grants a 4 sec silence to the only heal I have that's worth a damn and you start to see the problem.

 

I think this would just be a bandaid though. That CD is going to have a long reuse timer on it and it's not going to save you from stuns. So not a whole lot will really change.

 

Well if it is anything like the sniper CD then it would be good to have, I'm not sure exactly what it is called. If was like 15 seconds of immunity and 1min 15 or 1min 30 second cool down it would give pure healers a fighting chance in those times when there is heavy focusing and still allow some skill involved of knowing when to exactly use it.

 

Ah I found it, Entrench and their passive Hold Position. These or something like this would be useful, even if there was a penalty of being unable to move which isn't too bad since the heals that actually worth a damn can't be cast while moving.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Odawnus

I'm an operative healer as well, and while i do agree to an extent, i disgree as well:

 

How am I supposed to heal someone when:

 

- They take 30% less healing

 

Healers in pve have to counteract the dps of bosses that cause massive spike damage, even on tanks.

 

Players do not do the same numbers as raid bosses - therefore the trauma argument is not applicable.

 

If players start doing the same AoE dps as NM Anni Droid, or the same spike as an enraged boss - then the argument might hold true.

 

- There is a plethora of CC

 

True. I'm a strong believer that base-class CC breaks need to provide 3 seconds of CC immunity after usage. Not really an operative-specific problem, even if it bears relevance to interruptibility.

 

- Knockbacks that equate to AoE interrupts as well as positioning

 

Again, only bears minor relevance to the interrupt problem - doesnt bother me much, even in huttball.

 

- Short CD interrupts that lock me out of my primary heal

 

The interrupts are a base mechanic, and are probably here to stay.

 

Without them, some classes would find solo-story quests impossible.

 

With that said, against Operatives and to some extent Sorcs, they are extremely powerful: this combined with the free/semi-spammable nature, as well as their general availability to many classes makes them exceptionally hard to get around.

 

Mercs get some mitigation in this regard, as they have a talent on energy shield to make them immune to interrupts for the duration.

 

When you lock an OP/Sorc out of their main heal, however, their burst healing dries up entirely.

 

As an OP you can only rely upon hots, in this situation - as all other direct heals rely on TA procs.

 

in order to proc TA while being interrupted, you need:

 

to spend your whole energy bar on hots, to guarantee a proc

stay in melee range (interrupt city) and shiv someone (has small cooldown)

get a kill

 

As you can see, your burst healing is almost completely nullified, by one free, low cooldown ability.

 

This is the key problem that Ops/Sorcs face - the reliance upon one ability to do their job, means that if they are denied that ability, they are effectively CCed.

 

The fact is - if the class has an interrupt and uses it every time it is up, there is very little we can do.

 

If two classes do this on one OP, they can provide 100% direct heal lockdown, with 0 energy expenditure.

 

- I have no defensive cooldowns

 

Shield Probe is decent, but could use a similar kind of interrupt immunity.

 

Evasion is used as a cleanser, instead of a defensive cooldown: evasive imperative needs to provide more benefit - increasing duration of the ability, and maybe buffing the speed increase as well.

 

Vanish is passingly usable, but the heal-input/output debuff is exceptionally damaging for a healer. Hitting vanish effectively kills the healer until the debuff wears off :\

 

- DPS numbers far exceed healing numbers on single target

 

I dont really agree with this one - if people beat on the target im healing and dont use their free interrupts, and dont beat on me - im generally happy. If two people beat on the person im healing, it becomes a bit hit and miss, as it should: really depends on the power of my heal target in that case. I think that is about spot on.

 

 

Anyways, thats just my take:

 

In short: the ease-of lockdown that interrupts afford people is too extreme.

 

Some possible variations on solutions to the problem:

 

• Shield probe provides interrupt protection buff
  
• Cover provides interrupt protection buff
  
• Countermeasures provides interrupt protection buff
  
• Adrenaline Probe provides interrupt protection buff
  
• Evasion provides interrupt protection buff, and buff evasive imperative talent
  
• Surgical Steadiness provides X% chance to ignore interrupts on casting kolto injection
  
• Diagnostic Scan has a chance to generate Tactical Advantage
  
• Diagnostic Scan provides interrupt protection for 3 seconds after channel
  
• Diagnostic Scan full channel causes next cast to be instant/faster
  
• TA is generated if someone you are healing gets a kill
  
• Tox Screen Removes ability lockout from interrupts
  
• Chem-resistant inlays/inclement conditioning/survival training provides passive interrupt resistance