Anyone know the actual ranking for progress? Feels like guilds are way wrong with their "We are world second!" Etc. Might be just me, but anyone actually know this?

Feels like there are hundreds of guilds out there that have killed SoA on Hard Mode, 8 and 16 man. If not more?

Who cares. Soa and Bonethrasher are so buggy right now it's not even worth tracking progress, not to mention the EGA debacle.

Well for one, I care. And I'm not the only one. And doesnt matter if the bosses are buggy, still a legit kills.

Anyone know the actual ranking for progress? Feels like guilds are way wrong with their "We are world second!" Etc. Might be just me, but anyone actually know this?

 

Feels like there are hundreds of guilds out there that have killed SoA on Hard Mode, 8 and 16 man. If not more?

Hardly hundreds - as far as I can tell, only 3-4 guilds have killed Soa hard on 16 man (Condemned, Nerf Dialogue, enVidia and BRB Bowflexing aka Ensidia if I'm not mistaken), maybe a few more depending on if anyone got him last night.

As for world rankings, the best anyone can do right now is work with other progression guilds to see everyone's timed ranks on individual kills. I dont think anyone is saying "we're the 2nd best guild in the world", but rather more something like "as far as we can tell, we're the 2nd group in the world to kill this specific boss". If no one else pops up with an earlier kill timestamp/screenshot, then the community accepts it as true.

To rank the guild themselves, we would need a much more complex system. How would world first 8 man nightmare annihilator droid count against, say, world first 16 man hard mode of the same boss?

Hardly hundreds - as far as I can tell, only 3-4 guilds have killed Soa hard on 16 man (Condemned, Nerf Dialogue, enVidia and BRB Bowflexing aka Ensidia if I'm not mistaken), maybe a few more depending on if anyone got him last night.

 

As for world rankings, the best anyone can do right now is work with other progression guilds to see everyone's timed ranks on individual kills. I dont think anyone is saying "we're the 2nd best guild in the world", but rather more something like "as far as we can tell, we're the 2nd group in the world to kill this specific boss". If no one else pops up with an earlier kill timestamp/screenshot, then the community accepts it as true.

 

To rank the guild themselves, we would need a much more complex system. How would world first 8 man nightmare annihilator droid count against, say, world first 16 man hard mode of the same boss?

I say it's the same ranking. As in WoW, same ranking for 10 and 25 man. Ofcourse the last boss is bugged right now and gives 16 man version for 8 man in nightmare I heard. Or maybe it was nightmare gave hard mode Soa. But still, should be the same ranking. Shouldnt be anything different with 8 and 16 man as far as I get it.

I think it's kinda ridiculous to say "We are world 3:rd 16 man Soa HM" when there might be 10 other guilds that have downed him on 8 man. Just doesnt feel right to me. Should be the same ranking for both.

I say it's the same ranking. As in WoW, same ranking for 10 and 25 man. Ofcourse the last boss is bugged right now and gives 16 man version for 8 man in nightmare I heard. Or maybe it was nightmare gave hard mode Soa. But still, should be the same ranking. Shouldnt be anything different with 8 and 16 man as far as I get it.

 

I think it's kinda ridiculous to say "We are world 3:rd 16 man Soa HM" when there might be 10 other guilds that have downed him on 8 man. Just doesnt feel right to me. Should be the same ranking for both.

You'd think so, but the 16 man content is significantly more difficult, either because of poor tuning or just physical limitations of the encounter (you have the same amount of room to dodge lightning balls on 8 man and 16 man soa, but now there are twice as many people and twice as many balls).

As it stands, it's looking like 16 man is going to be the basis for comparison, unless they change something in the next big patch.

You'd think so, but the 16 man content is significantly more difficult, either because of poor tuning or just physical limitations of the encounter (you have the same amount of room to dodge lightning balls on 8 man and 16 man soa, but now there are twice as many people and twice as many balls).

 

As it stands, it's looking like 16 man is going to be the basis for comparison, unless they change something in the next big patch.

There is 4 and 6 balls on 16 man? I havent done 16 man myself, trying to recruit 16 good enough people but seems hard to get good people atm. So only done 8 man. But seems abit unfair to claim like server first, world 2:nd world 3:rd etc from guilds that do 8 man. But the 16 man guilds get them after the 8 man teams and still gets the "title" of beeing top 10 world etc. It's a very, very unfair system.

Keep in mind, many guilds don't even say a word of their progression, mainly because they don't care. Guilds that go about advertising their progression simply want some type of recognition, but the difficulty of HMs and Nightmare modes for the current operations are a joke compared to what WoW has offered. More people will start caring when Bioware starts giving us a real challenge with no bugs or horrible tuning.

I agree with you sir.

Keep in mind, many guilds don't even say a word of their progression, mainly because they don't care. Guilds that go about advertising their progression simply want some type of recognition, but the difficulty of HMs and Nightmare modes for the current operations are a joke compared to what WoW has offered. More people will start caring when Bioware starts giving us a real challenge with no bugs or horrible tuning.

IMO you dont get to complain about the content being "a joke" until you clear it all yourself (on 16 man).

Also, please keep in mind that WoW has had over 7 years to produce memorable boss fights, while this is SWTOR's first; for every "good" boss WoW had it had at least 3-4 crappy ones.

Everyone remembers Archimonde as a good fight, but who thinks back with fondness about Rage Winterchill, Kazrogal, Antheron, or Azgalor (aka the entire rest of the instance minus Arch)? Everyone liked Kael'thas, but who could honestly say they found Void Reaver or Solarian to be challenging fights? You remember the good ones and toss out the bad ones - it's called "80's syndrome" (or at least it should be called that).

There is 4 and 6 balls on 16 man? I havent done 16 man myself, trying to recruit 16 good enough people but seems hard to get good people atm. So only done 8 man. But seems abit unfair to claim like server first, world 2:nd world 3:rd etc from guilds that do 8 man. But the 16 man guilds get them after the 8 man teams and still gets the "title" of beeing top 10 world etc. It's a very, very unfair system.

It's actually 3 and 5, but still in the same space and with more people, so yeah. Theyre nerfing in it the patch, probably to 3 and 4 or 3 and 3 or something.

I dont necessarily disagree with you, but you do have to take into account that the majority of the "ranked" 8 man kills were achieved by the same guilds that are now pushing the 16 mans - they/we just did it in lieu of 16 mans before we had a full 16 max levels. That will likely not be the case in the next content patch, though.

Please dont bring "wow had 7 years". Who cares man. So did Bioware.

BW had so many diff games to look at and compare and make great boss fights. I know this is entry level content but seriously Pylons, council. Is this really a raid.

I will infact put BW at a better & advantageous position because it had all the time and resources to work on the things. According to you every new mmo that comes out should take atleast 4 years to perfect and polish because WOW took 7 years. You are kidding right!

It is sad but WOW has set a lot of high standards. No matter what you say but it is way more polished game with so much content (quality) in it that it is hard for other developers to match it in little time.

That being said developers can do either of the two things -

- Accept it as a challenge make make better end game content which is super polished and flawless when it comes out

or

- makes excuses that it took 7 years for wow to get their game together so we will keep on releasing more content which will be buggy and quality is that anyone can put together a random pug the day they hit 50 and clear it.

@Viper

yeah I agree. That will be really nice. Or they should also atleast have achievements in game like server first or world's first. this will be very nice for community.

I am sure they will do it in future but cant say when.

Please dont bring "wow had 7 years". Who cares man. So did Bioware.

BW had so many diff games to look at and compare and make great boss fights. I know this is entry level content but seriously Pylons, council. Is this really a raid.

 

I will infact put BW at a better & advantageous position because it had all the time and resources to work on the things. According to you every new mmo that comes out should take atleast 4 years to perfect and polish because WOW took 7 years. You are kidding right!

No, I was simply saying that you had a full 7 years worth of Wow raids and bosses (literally hundreds of them) to pick and choose the fights that were truly great from the ones that were mediocre and forgettable, and put those select few fights on a pedestal and say "look how good WoW was, why cant every other MMO be like that?" while completely ignoring the much larger pool of fights that were average at best.

It's not about time for development, but rather time to build up a large sample size.

I agree with you brother that content can come out with time and of course there were some very lame fights also in wow but the least we can expect is that they should have released the raid content after little polishing.

Did they expect that people will take many weeks to level to 50? maybe

But At the same point I think making just 1 raid bugfree wasnt a lot to ask from BW at the launch.

I agree with you brother that content can come out with time and of course there were some very lame fights also in wow but the least we can expect is that they should have released the raid content after little polishing.

Did they expect that people will take many weeks to level to 50? maybe

But At the same point I think making just 1 raid bugfree wasnt a lot to ask from BW at the launch.

I agree, but there's a difference between the fights being bad and the fights being buggy.

There are a handful of guilds who aren't posting anything to flex e-peens, instead we have been e-mailing with the development team back and forth to explain classes, bugs, and content fixes we think should be implemented.

There are a bunch of people who stream every night who have cleared all content (if those pay attention to it)

Unfortunately, a lot of guild "claiming" these kills are the ones who feel they have something to prove. Notice guilds like Ensidia don't come spamming forum threads with world kills. Its because they have been in that position before, and know how to respect a community.

In time there will be something linking the kills to a major website, until then you are just going to have to deal with all the e-peen flexing and forum spam.

Please dont bring "wow had 7 years". Who cares man. So did Bioware.

.

Actually they had 9/10 years of full development.

Unfortunately, a lot of guild "claiming" these kills are the ones who feel they have something to prove. Notice guilds like Ensidia don't come spamming forum threads with world kills. Its because they have been in that position before, and know how to respect a community.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=108077

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=108077

Did I say we weren't a part of it? I've been saying the entire time that we are all ******es to each other. But we let our thread die because it wasn't doing anyone any good, and just causing arguments.

I'd hate to see this amazing game die because we are all ******es to each other.

If you are looking to stir up drama, you are barking up the wrong tree kiddo. We aren't a part of this shin dig.

IMO you dont get to complain about the content being "a joke" until you clear it all yourself (on 16 man).

 

Also, please keep in mind that WoW has had over 7 years to produce memorable boss fights, while this is SWTOR's first; for every "good" boss WoW had it had at least 3-4 crappy ones.

 

Everyone remembers Archimonde as a good fight, but who thinks back with fondness about Rage Winterchill, Kazrogal, Antheron, or Azgalor (aka the entire rest of the instance minus Arch)? Everyone liked Kael'thas, but who could honestly say they found Void Reaver or Solarian to be challenging fights? You remember the good ones and toss out the bad ones - it's called "80's syndrome" (or at least it should be called that).

 

 

 

It's actually 3 and 5, but still in the same space and with more people, so yeah. Theyre nerfing in it the patch, probably to 3 and 4 or 3 and 3 or something.

 

I dont necessarily disagree with you, but you do have to take into account that the majority of the "ranked" 8 man kills were achieved by the same guilds that are now pushing the 16 mans - they/we just did it in lieu of 16 mans before we had a full 16 max levels. That will likely not be the case in the next content patch, though.

That's the thing, we've already cleared it. Progression done. It wasn't even worth parading about it on the forums cause it wasn't even a challenge. And this is considering the very relaxed schedule that we have, as we aren't even interested in raiding on a hardcore schedule. I am a former Premonition raider, and as much as I enjoyed those days, I am not willing to do so again. None of my guildies are, we just log, play and enjoy our time, not interested in anything else. We are all veterans looking for a break.

Your argument is flawed, some bosses are meant to be easier than others, but for progression sake, make the damn end boss challenging and memorable. And at least make the ones before SOMEWHAT challenging. EV failed, there really is only 1 true boss, SOA, and his mechanics are a joke.

Of course WoW has had plenty of years, everyone knows that. But from the POV of a GOOD designer, is that he looks into what has been done, and see what works and what doesn't. I give credit to Bioware for trying something different with mechanics, unfortunately their all very simple.

Granted, Bioware never claimed they would focus on "hardcore" content, even in terms of difficulty. Loot is easily attainable, and mechanics are very simple, the only thing that is holding a lot of people back are bugs or horrible tuning (I'm looking at you Nightmare SOA).

I came into this game expecting a casual raiding environment, because that's what they told us they would do. It's fine if you want to claim world firsts, seconds, whatever. Just don't make it seem as if it's such a huge achievement at this stage of the game, because it isn't. Unless Bioware starts to cater hardcore raiding, the PROPER way, then let the e-peen begin.

That's the thing, we've already cleared it. Progression done. It wasn't even worth parading about it on the forums cause it wasn't even a challenge. And this is considering the very relaxed schedule that we have, as we aren't even interested in raiding on a hardcore schedule. I am a former Premonition raider, and as much as I enjoyed those days, I am not willing to do so again. None of my guildies are, we just log, play and enjoy our time, not interested in anything else. We are all veterans looking for a break.

Sorry, I should have clarified - done it on 16 man hard and up. Because of the ~4-5 guilds in the world that have killed Soa 16 man hard so far, I doubt any would say it was a joke.

It's true that the difficulty curve spikes at Soa - the rest of the instance is relatively lackluster, minus annihilator 16m nightmare. The middle 3 bosses are pretty much one giant loot pinata (assuming pylons wants to cooperate). But it's hardly cake as a whole - no one has killed 16m nightmare Soa yet, or bonethrasher.

Sorry, I should have clarified - done it on 16 man hard and up. Because of the ~4-5 guilds in the world that have killed Soa 16 man hard so far, I doubt any would say it was a joke.

 

It's true that the difficulty curve spikes at Soa - the rest of the instance is relatively lackluster, minus annihilator 16m nightmare. The middle 3 bosses are pretty much one giant loot pinata (assuming pylons wants to cooperate). But it's hardly cake as a whole - no one has killed 16m nightmare Soa yet, or bonethrasher.

Can you explain whats hard about soa? You dodge lightning balls and DPS mind traps. There is absolutely nothing difficult or new about that content if you have a competent group of players.

You need to spend more time in the community instead of just in the Flashpoint forums, because there are at least 30 other guilds with HM soa on their front page. (in fact, had you been paying attention to other threads, bioware had an e-mail meeting with some of the guilds about the content)

Just because the previous bosses are EASIER doesn't make Soa hard. After a few attempts of people not even seeing the fight, they figure it out completely.

Also, NM bonethrasher has been cleared by an EU guild. NM soa is still up for grabs.

If any of you had any idea what posting was about then you'd understand it's about setting a foundation for a new game and guild recruitment. As you don't and both of you have claimed you've cleared content you haven't then I'll assume you're trolling. If anything trolling threads who's sole purpose is to diminish the work and time put into clearing content are the ones looking for the epeen raise. That being said good luck on the easy content OPW has been unable to clear and if you've cleared all the content that nobody else has then by all means disappear back into the woodwork.

Enjoy reminiscing of the good old days and dropping your old guild tags around and happy hunting.