Honestly, if I saw anyone military or not do that in public, I'd lose all respect for that individual. Slapping Poe was 100% uncalled for, and yes you take the discussion into a private meeting room between leia, and Poe for the Demotion. I lost all respect for Leia as a leader the instant that scene happened, She would know better and this to me is why it is terrible writing.

I take it you don't know that Poe is Leia's adopted son

I take it you don't know that Poe is Leia's adopted son

Doesn't matter at all. Doing that in public is unacceptable. It show's a complete lack of respect.

Doesn't matter at all. Doing that in public is unacceptable. It show's a complete lack of respect.

Of course it wouldn't happen like that in "real life." This is a film and that was a quick, easy way to convey the intended emotion and consequence of the scene.

..... again you are destroying your own arguement. There is no difference between slapiping and demoitng in front of peers then chewing them out in front of peers.

 

It has the exact same effect.

 

It doesn't matter if you lived it or not your arguement that Leia slapping Poe is disrecptful to the military and that no military ever does that is entierly wrong.

 

You yourself proved this is wrong.

This goes to show you have zero idea how the military operates and furthermore the difference between being chewed out(which is akin to a bad monkey speech) and actual things that have real consequences such as disobeying a direct order which is article 90 of the UCMJ. And gross insubordination which is article 91.

Be silent as it is shown you've never served or have a freaking clue what you are talking about.

This goes to show you have zero idea how the military operates and furthermore the difference between being chewed out(which is akin to a bad monkey speech) and actual things that have real consequences such as disobeying a direct order which is article 90 of the UCMJ. And gross insubordination which is article 91.

 

Be silent as it is shown you've never served or have a freaking clue what you are talking about.

Don't get mad at me that you proved yourself wrong.

Please show me which article in the Resistance says a mother can't slap her adopted son?

Don't get mad at me that you proved yourself wrong.

 

Please show me which article in the Resistance says a mother can't slap her adopted son?

I don't care if they are mother and son.

She's a General, he's a commander. Maybe she should remember that since she has lead troops before and has never once slapped someone under her command.

It makes her look bad. Regardless of how you justify it. She knows better.

I don't care if they are mother and son.

 

She's a General, he's a commander. Maybe she should remember that since she has lead troops before and has never once slapped someone under her command.

 

It makes her look bad. Regardless of how you justify it. She knows better.

again you already justified it by proving that being embarrassed in front of your peers is ok in the miilitary. You and I BOTH know it happens.

again you already justified it by proving that being embarrassed in front of your peers is ok in the miilitary. You and I BOTH know it happens.

and this has any meaning, since any General would know better then to handle that situation the way she did? She's been in command of others for decades. She would never in character slap a commander and demote him in a public setting. The writers of that scene were pathetic.

and this has any meaning, since any General would know better then to handle that situation the way she did? She's been in command of others for decades. She would never in character slap a commander and demote him in a public setting. The writers of that scene were pathetic.

It's true, its more likely he would have been executed in front of everyone. I think its poor critique to try and compare their situation to some sort of modern day Western leadership doctrine. I'm just not so sure why how things may or may not work on this day in history is the apt comparison

again you already justified it by proving that being embarrassed in front of your peers is ok in the miilitary. You and I BOTH know it happens.

No it doesn't. But keep trying.

But I'm just going to get off the Poe and Leia since I will not agree with the other person and we're just going round and round. I will give you all the DEFINITIVE PROOF of the terrible writing in this movie and it comes down to one itty bitty little decision.

Holdo not telling Poe even the bare bones of her plan. Because of that absolutely asinine decision we get the Canto Bight sequence which ended up being worthless. But oh it gets BETTER. Besides the mutiny which also wasted time, because Finn and Rose go to Canto, they meet DJ who in the end sells out the resistance getting a whole mess of people killed before Holdo does her sacrifice(which is a whole nother point of bad writing because in an interview Lara Dern states Holdo was force sensitive!) which all could of been avoided if Holdo had simply even told Poe this.

"I believe this ship is being tracked by the first order. At some point I may have the crew abandon ship and use the cruiser to draw off the order."

I mean for the force sake. All she had to do was tell him that out of ear shot. Not like Leia didn't implicitly trust Poe. All Holdo had to do was give him a bare bones outline of the plan like that, and everything I just pointed out DOES NOT HAPPEN!

Why, cause after Poe wakes up and Leia finally explains the plan what does he do? Sit there and goes "that could work".

I heard that and literally face palmed.

Now try to defend that absolute train wreck of a plot decision.

......

 

Now try to defend that absolute train wreck of a plot decision.

Yeah it really doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. - BUT this is a film aimed at kids. - Mostly 10-year-old boys who haven't studied military history, physics, mysticism and all the rest. They want to play computer games, hit one another with sticks like they're lightsabres and point fingers at one another and pretend that they have a blaster - and ultimately buy lots of merchandise and watch the next instalment.

It's fiction. You're supposed to leave your brain with the hat-check girl and just enjoy the ride.

One would assume that as an adult you should know better than to take a kids movie seriously. It's no more ludicrous than a talking fish, cartoon super-villain or a meteorite containing vibranium.

Forums ate what I was writing, but I’ll leave my TL;DR here:

Shut up, TLJ was amazing.

The bombing run and Canto Bight sequences were a load of bobbins. - Though the interplay with Finn and Rose and DJ was enjoyable.

The chase through space was also hard to believe as was Leia's self-rescue.

But other than that it was an enjoyable romp. - For once the female leads upstaged the men for the most part, which was a nice change of direction - Since it had been a bit over-testosterone fuelled in the past.

MY 10-year old daughter loved it - which is the main thing. - It is basically a kids movie TBH. - Don't lose sight of that.

Nothing in TLJ was written any worse than anything in KOTET KOTFE. - which are aimed mostly at a mid -teens + audience.

The bombing run and Canto Bight sequences were a load of bobbins. - Though the interplay with Finn and Rose and DJ was enjoyable.

 

The chase through space was also hard to believe as was Leia's self-rescue.

 

But other than that it was an enjoyable romp. - For once the female leads upstaged the men for the most part, which was a nice change of direction - Since it had been a bit over-testosterone fuelled in the past.

 

MY 10-year old daughter loved it - which is the main thing. - It is basically a kids movie TBH. - Don't lose sight of that.

 

Nothing in TLJ was written any worse than anything in KOTET KOTFE. - which are aimed mostly at a mid -teens + audience.

I have zero problems with women taking the lead. But these were poorly written and 1 dimensional at best.

I don't mind if women lead. I just want them to be GOOD. Here are plenty of good female characters:

Honor Harrington

Ellen Ripley

Jadzia Dax

Kathryn Janeway(she wasn't that well written but compared to any woman in TLJ she's goddamn Shakespeare)

Kira Neryse

Commander Shepard(female)

Satele Shan

Bastilla Shan

Princess Leia(original trilogy, not the joke she became)

Notice I never listed any of the other 3 from TLJ?

That's because they are not even close to on the same league as those listed women.

I have zero problems with women taking the lead. But these were poorly written and 1 dimensional at best.

 

I don't mind if women lead. I just want them to be GOOD. Here are plenty of good female characters:

Honor Harrington

Ellen Ripley

Jadzia Dax

Kathryn Janeway(she wasn't that well written but compared to any woman in TLJ she's gosh darn Shakespeare)

Kira Neryse

Commander Shepard(female)

Satele Shan

Bastilla Shan

Princess Leia(original trilogy, not the joke she became)

 

Notice I never listed any of the other 3 from TLJ?

 

That's because they are not even close to on the same league as those listed women.

Wow, that is quite the defensive posture you've taken.

Over-compensating, some might call it.

Wow, that is quite the defensive posture you've taken.

 

Over-compensating, some might call it.

I'd say they are speaking truth, I'd add however that all of the Male characters were bad as well, not just the Female characters. Disney did a terrible job of choosing who to be in this trilogy, Not to mention the terrible characters in general.

Wow, that is quite the defensive posture you've taken.

 

Over-compensating, some might call it.

No just making sure that I'd made my point that I do enjoy well written female characters. Give a nice wide array, well can't be called a woman hater.

I don't hate women, I just made bad characters. And the other poster made a good point.

Most of the male characters in this movie were also bad.

No just making sure that I'd made my point that I do enjoy well written female characters. Give a nice wide array, well can't be called a woman hater.

 

I don't hate women, I just made bad characters. And the other poster made a good point.

 

Most of the male characters in this movie were also bad.

Ok. I hear you. Good job coming up with a list of a "wide array" of a select few random female characters that you claim to like. I'm not questioning you at all.

All of the characters in the movie could have been white male or ethnic female and It'd be just as bad because the underlying problem would remain.

Good movies and especially good SW movies require a quality antagonist. Disney SW apparently fundamentally misunderstood this.

That Marvel has been able to deliver a more compelling and ultimatley likeable arch nemessis than SW is a damning indictment of the creators of the sequel trilogy.

Don't get mad at me that you proved yourself wrong.

 

Please show me which article in the Resistance says a mother can't slap her adopted son?

I don't recall in the movies where it says Leia adopted Poe.

The new trilogy entirely has suffered from poorly defined characters. It's not like the prequels where there were characters (Anakin, Jar Jar) that I actively hated and thought were stupid. Instead, the new trilogy has suffered from a huge amount of indifference. None of these characters have really done a good job of making me care about them in slightest. Not just in Last Jedi, but Force Awakens as well.

Prime examples of huge failures on their part:

If Kylo Ren was supposed to be the intimidating bad guy we fear, then he needs to feel like an actual threat. That Kyle/Rey battle against the Royal Guard really gave that impression, with Kylo fending off 3 guys at a time with ease, while Rey struggled against one. But that isn't what I remember and define him by.

Instead, what I remember most about Kylo Ren is that he challenged Finn. Finn, a freaking janitor, a First Order Trooper who had been on exactly one mission, and had panicked and had a breakdown during that fight. Finn picks up a lightsaber, not only not having been trained in it, but literally never touched one before, and then proceeds to use it with such great proficiency that he actually fends off Kylo Ren and gives him a solid run for his money for four straight minutes. No part of that fight made me forget how pathetic Finn had been made out to be, but the fact that Kylo Ren with years of elite training under Luke and Snoke was still struggling in a fight against an untrained Finn just established that Kylo Ren was apparently a bumblingly incompetitant duelist.

If Vader had got his butt kicked by Princess Leia, he would not have worked as a villain. If Count Duuku was getting beat up by Jar Jar Binks, he would have lost all credibility. That's what happened to Kylo Ren. He felt pathetic by the end of Force Awakens, and when Last Jedi tried to remedy that, it just felt like the character was inconsistently written and poorly defined.

And the same is true for Finn. One minute Finn is supposed to be a cowardly janitor. The next, Finn is supposed to be the ultimate bad-a. And then he's supposed to be right back to being a coward in over his head. He flip flops so constantly that the character is terrible.

Poe, Rose, Phasma, Snoke, all these new characters that they do nothing with and so it's almost impossible to make me invested in them. The new trilogy is giving me a huge amount of 'Don't Care'.

But the worst transgression of Last Jedi was Luke Skywalker. The best part of the whole film is the force projection duel between Luke and Kylo. It did a lot for lending Kylo a bit of credibility. It gave us a glimpse of the Luke we wanted to see. It was amazing. It ends on this great high note of "I'll see you soon". Luke has declared that he is coming to hunt down Kylo Ren, to redeem himself and save the galaxy. Luke is back... nope. He does the lame fadeaway, and EVERYTHING they worked to build up just falls flat with absolutely no payoff.

What should have happened, instead of Luke disappearing, is that Luke walks over to the cliffside where you can see his ship underwater, force lifts it out of the water in a throwback to Degoba. Then looks at the ship in huge amounts of disrepair and sighs, saying "Time to get to work". This would allow him to show up in the next movie at the perfectly right moment to save the day, accomplish something big, and then die heroically.

I understand they probably wanted to kill an original cast member this movie, but Leia was the better choice. She got blown out into space right in front of Kylo Ren, after teasing that he was afraid to do it himself, and then she spends the rest of the film in intensive care. LEIA should have been the one to lightspeed the carrier into the fleet, dying to save her people and letting her go out on a high note. Then Luke could have been saved for Episode IX. I understand that the original cast is being phased out to push the new characters; but pushing characters that we have nothing we care about, and eliminating their strongest asset in casual and lackluster ways, is flat out poor writing and poor directing.

They know how to write a good film with new characters. Almost every character in Rogue One was done so well that I cared when they died. Even the droid. Solo was about 50/50 for brand spanking new characters who were done well and we were made to care about them. But Force Awakens/Last Jedi has entirely failed in that department, to the point where the films aren't terrible, they're just not interesting.

The new trilogy entirely has suffered from poorly defined characters. It's not like the prequels where there were characters (Anakin, Jar Jar) that I actively hated and thought were stupid. Instead, the new trilogy has suffered from a huge amount of indifference. None of these characters have really done a good job of making me care about them in slightest. Not just in Last Jedi, but Force Awakens as well.

 

Prime examples of huge failures on their part:

 

If Kylo Ren was supposed to be the intimidating bad guy we fear, then he needs to feel like an actual threat. That Kyle/Rey battle against the Royal Guard really gave that impression, with Kylo fending off 3 guys at a time with ease, while Rey struggled against one. But that isn't what I remember and define him by.

 

Instead, what I remember most about Kylo Ren is that he challenged Finn. Finn, a freaking janitor, a First Order Trooper who had been on exactly one mission, and had panicked and had a breakdown during that fight. Finn picks up a lightsaber, not only not having been trained in it, but literally never touched one before, and then proceeds to use it with such great proficiency that he actually fends off Kylo Ren and gives him a solid run for his money for four straight minutes. No part of that fight made me forget how pathetic Finn had been made out to be, but the fact that Kylo Ren with years of elite training under Luke and Snoke was still struggling in a fight against an untrained Finn just established that Kylo Ren was apparently a bumblingly incompetitant duelist.

 

If Vader had got his butt kicked by Princess Leia, he would not have worked as a villain. If Count Duuku was getting beat up by Jar Jar Binks, he would have lost all credibility. That's what happened to Kylo Ren. He felt pathetic by the end of Force Awakens, and when Last Jedi tried to remedy that, it just felt like the character was inconsistently written and poorly defined.

 

And the same is true for Finn. One minute Finn is supposed to be a cowardly janitor. The next, Finn is supposed to be the ultimate bad-a. And then he's supposed to be right back to being a coward in over his head. He flip flops so constantly that the character is terrible.

 

Poe, Rose, Phasma, Snoke, all these new characters that they do nothing with and so it's almost impossible to make me invested in them. The new trilogy is giving me a huge amount of 'Don't Care'.

 

But the worst transgression of Last Jedi was Luke Skywalker. The best part of the whole film is the force projection duel between Luke and Kylo. It did a lot for lending Kylo a bit of credibility. It gave us a glimpse of the Luke we wanted to see. It was amazing. It ends on this great high note of "I'll see you soon". Luke has declared that he is coming to hunt down Kylo Ren, to redeem himself and save the galaxy. Luke is back... nope. He does the lame fadeaway, and EVERYTHING they worked to build up just falls flat with absolutely no payoff.

 

What should have happened, instead of Luke disappearing, is that Luke walks over to the cliffside where you can see his ship underwater, force lifts it out of the water in a throwback to Degoba. Then looks at the ship in huge amounts of disrepair and sighs, saying "Time to get to work". This would allow him to show up in the next movie at the perfectly right moment to save the day, accomplish something big, and then die heroically.

 

I understand they probably wanted to kill an original cast member this movie, but Leia was the better choice. She got blown out into space right in front of Kylo Ren, after teasing that he was afraid to do it himself, and then she spends the rest of the film in intensive care. LEIA should have been the one to lightspeed the carrier into the fleet, dying to save her people and letting her go out on a high note. Then Luke could have been saved for Episode IX. I understand that the original cast is being phased out to push the new characters; but pushing characters that we have nothing we care about, and eliminating their strongest asset in casual and lackluster ways, is flat out poor writing and poor directing.

 

They know how to write a good film with new characters. Almost every character in Rogue One was done so well that I cared when they died. Even the droid. Solo was about 50/50 for brand spanking new characters who were done well and we were made to care about them. But Force Awakens/Last Jedi has entirely failed in that department, to the point where the films aren't terrible, they're just not interesting.

Everything you hit on is dead on accurate. I agree with it all, notably the last part, where the movies aren't terrible, I just don't care. I've seen every movie in the theater, going back to '77 when I saw Star Wars as an eight yr old kid. and yes it was called Star Wars back then, not A New Hope, lol. Anyway, when I left the theater after seeing TLJ, I thought, pretty good. As the days wore on, I wanted to see it again less and less and less. I've never felt that way about a SW flick.

One more thing, for some odd reason, the people behind the scenes feel it necessary to kill off most of the original cast. Now that Billy Dee Williams has announced he'll be reprising his role in part nine, I'm curious as to whether they're gonna kill him off as well.