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The Jedi Knight, and Sith Warrior classes need a huge buff.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
The Jedi Knight, and Sith Warrior classes need a huge buff.
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Cleavy's Avatar


Cleavy
01.02.2012 , 02:49 PM | #161
The game is not very melee friendly...
Playing as assassin and must say that their deception spec is way to weak untill you get to 40 to get 31 talent ability.

1 started as inquisitor(melee+range), used my range abilities alot, while using melee only when neccesary. Then after 10lvl I dicided that I want stealth and went assassin. Not much thing changed back there. Still was able to do stuff pretty good, then 1 hit 20+ and man I found myself extremely underpowered to range classes(bh) and surprise maradeurs. Jugs were taking mobs as slow as me. I had to use my cc before the pull, after the pull, hell, I had to cc every oportunity I had...
Then I dicided to respec as tank, and things got a little bit easier... I also tried my third spec with good aoe only to find a was taking damage way more than in deception(lots of agro)
Every quest I made since I speced to tank I don overgeared and several lvls after its available, so may be that was the reason thing got easier a bit.
Then I hit 36 and decided to skip bonus missions and go straight to the quest that require that exact lvl 36 and man.. That was hell!! I feeled underpowered again, thin as paper and weak as grandpa. From that moment
I NEVER EVER DO THE QUEST AS SOON AS IT IS AVAILABLE
I wait till I am 2-3 lvl higher, that do it. The xp is still pretty good and I am fine to lvl.
Now that I am 41 - I speced back to deception, took that 31 talant ability and noticed a huge dps increase. And while I lvl fine doing quest 2-3 lvl lower that me it makes me sad to how easily BH ***** group of mobs of the same lvl with ease and still having little to none problems in pvp.

I would say that the game is not very melee friendly if any at all.

Either mobs need to do less melee damage(they do a lot), or we need better companions.
Khem is awful tank(bad suvivability), ashara is terrible dps(stand in every nasty stuff she can)... I am very happy with andronikos(range dps), he have nice dmg, stays out of bad stuff and if attacked !takes far less damage than khem!.
We need better IQ for companions, they need interrupts or melee dps need a way to soak some damage.
Then again what makes BH kill mobs with ease is because he has great aoe just from start and dont have to be close to mobs to deal damage -> he kills mobs befor they get close.
While we need to go close to kill those and cc'ing those wasting our time to cc instead of causing damage.
Also bh wear heavy armor from start, while maradeur wears medium and assassin even light. Back then in wow ferals could just swap cat/bear forms and rogues had great evade ability and warriors weared plate. Its just wrong for melee dps to have survavability worse than a range classes, just wrong.

So to sum everything up - melee need better survavability in melee.

Shamarick's Avatar


Shamarick
01.02.2012 , 03:11 PM | #162
From the post titled: Sith Marauders Do Need Improvement:

I am level 50 Marauder specialized under the Rage tree. To be honest I did not have that much trouble reaching 50 in the PvE environment. Groups of mobs were a little bit tough sometimes, more than one Silver Elite was a quite a bit of a challenge, but with clever uses of my Saber Ward and Cloak of Pain, and using Quinn to heal, I ďgenerallyĒ made it through unscathed. Many people have said itís impossible to level Marauders PvE and that weíre broken, well I just donít think that is the case; but it is quite tough, Iíll give you that.

I did PvP while leveling, and am currently gearing at 50. Iíve been lucky so far at 50 receiving 4 pieces of gear from Champion Bags, so that has eased the stress of attempting to grind Warzone Commendations especially now that my health has reached near 14k; itís a start. On this topic though, from a Marauder standpoint, we have a tough time occasionally. Anyone that has PvPíd at all knows that it can be a melee unfriendly environment. Is it impossible? Once again, no itís not. But if I donít have a healer, because my buddy is unavailable, life is much rougher. Sometimes it seems that every class is ranged. I know thatís not the case, but it feels like it. I feel like a kite on a windy day. I still do top 5 damage near every time (most often top 3 even), and rack up a boat load of kills. But it is a far cry to say that I dominate. No one class should dominate, thatís called OP and someone will inevitably QQ about it.

My thoughts though are this: Both Marauders and Juggs should have more health. Period. If we scaled every toon to 50 with the exact same gear, melee classes should have more health. It just makes sense. I can live with the stuns from Operatives, and the kiting by Sorcs, but a little extra HP would be nice so that I could at least get closer to the enemy to make it look like a fight.

Armor. Didnít Marauders utilize heavy armor in Beta? Things change, but I think this should still be. High damage generally = Low survivability, but where is the line? We are a melee class first to charge in. We are not tanks, nor should we be, but we should have a greater damage reduction other than our talents like Saber Ward and CoP give us. It would be nice to have a little extra protection while Iím trying to recover from a stun and that Operative is whipping me in the back. Now going back to my last point, if melee classes should have more health, should they have more armor too? For the Operatives and Assassins no because they have stealth and ways to escape more effectively. But we Marauders stand there and have nowhere to run (unless you count Force Camouflage as effective escape. Itís nice but doesnít fool anyone 5 seconds later.)

Are Marauders useless? No. Are we broken? No. But we could use some buffs. We should be more resilient than we are. We should not be tanks and should not be in the same league as a tank, but we should be able to last longer than a few hits against nearly every other class that feels the need to drag us around. Iím hoping to reach Developers on this. I know that some will agree and some will poopoo my post, but regardless I know that many people feel the same way. Not to dominate, but to sustain longer.
I'm pulling your strings, twisting your mind and smashing your dreams

Csdabest's Avatar


Csdabest
01.02.2012 , 04:46 PM | #163
Telling me. Sents and Gaurds have the same issue. Thing i wold think help. A damage increase over range toons. More HP and longer cloak abilities. The four second Force Camo is absolute joke. Especially against range targets. The thing that hurts the most is the distance we have to close. Force leap is cool and everything but they still can see you from a mile away and getting popped from long distance. With them getting the first hit with same HP pretty much doesnt really help us at all. On paper it is very very balance. But practice. It gets abit tricky. We have the most complex build set up out of all classes to sustain high level damage. I think we could atleast get a damage bonus health bonus. If we can get those. I would settle for a buff on the Force Camo so i can atleast stealth in against an opponent

Kripty's Avatar


Kripty
01.02.2012 , 07:00 PM | #164
you are pretty bad if you cant quest on ilum at level 50. i started questing there at level 48 and finished all the quests with ease. i am also a juggernaut.


tl;dr l2p
tYgA #1 YMCMB $$$ cAsH mOnEy

Dragongit's Avatar


Dragongit
01.02.2012 , 07:03 PM | #165
I have to agree as far as I can tell, The Jedi Knight/ Sith Warrior arn't quite up to scratch with other classes. Even through introductory quests I felt them not quite as good as other classes. I have a full level 50 Jedi Knight Sentenel... let me say first of all, the final fight is pretty damn hard. Not sure if it's the class, or the mechanic of the fight, but I needed a friend for a "solo" mission.

In PvP, maybe I'm doing something wrong. But I hardly get medals for my efforts, no matter how much I attack, no matter how many objectives, I always seem to do less then others, who go down for "damage done" and "kills done"

In general they feel very squishy and brittle. Either compensate their damage to be a bit more in the case of Sentenel, and increase their durability in their tanking stance. I may be biased, but with the lack of utility and overal brittle nature of the class, we could use a bit of fixing.
DECEMBER CREW

cdstephen's Avatar


cdstephen
01.02.2012 , 07:16 PM | #166
Aren't warriors focused on single target fights, at least in terms of tanking?
The HK droid that absolutely no one likes.

PinnyFox's Avatar


PinnyFox
01.02.2012 , 08:17 PM | #167
I'd just like to point out, saying that you're doing just fine at level 50 with full champion PVP gear with lots of expertise is very misleading.

Saying because of that you become "near invincible" in PVP is a huge mistake, since the majority of the time you're fighting people below level 50 in PVP, and what does expertise do? Increase damage/healing you do and decreases damage the enemies do to you.

So yeah, saying your jedi knight/sith warrior in full champion gear is destroying in PVP doesn't really say much until the majority of people in PVP have full champion gear as well.

Valeruh's Avatar


Valeruh
01.02.2012 , 08:39 PM | #168
Here is my view on the mara/sent class, from my long lost thread:


With this post i want to express my feelings & thoughts concerning the Sith marauder. I hit 50 a few days a ago and my valor rank is 30 (just to say that i played a bit of pvp)

I use ~25 keybinds, and was always speccd anni (it seems to be the most viable talent tree, i'm not sure about rage but carnage is pretty weak according to a few guild mates)


PvE: If we are good at something this is it, single target dps. Since we don't run out of resources we are naturally able to apply constant damage for an infinitive amount of time, the bleed effects really hit hard if you get them on the target, combine with our other attacks we can really make an impact.

The only weak spot we have is aoe (may be better with rage spec), smash and sweeping slash just don't cut it, while this may not be an issue in end game content since most mobs are elite anyway, it is an issue while leveling. It often felt like a gamble when taking on a group of stronger mobs since we are also missing a long cc (we can disable droids yay!)

PvP: This is where i have my concerns and can feel the pain of fellow marauders, complaining about their class

The isuess i have:

1)too many abilities! Not because i can't handle them all on a usefull ratation, but simply because it takes me WAY too many global cds to start hurting my enemy. Force charge, deadly saber, battering assault rupture,annihilate- there comes my first burst. Using it earlier will leave me without enough rage since there aren't any empowerment proccs.
I don't think it would be as bad with auto attack, but the way it is we cannot burst properly, no auto attack obviously hurts melee classes way more than ranged classes. Therefor the close range abilities should make significantly more damage (a good example would be the soundrel, although i consider his burst to be too strong)

2) Force Charge, i love the ability, it looks awesome and is our key skill for pvp. Without it we would never ever reach an enemy before we die (ofc im exaggerating). The problem i have with it is, that it's like a big red arrow over our head. such a flashy animation attracts any range class in sight. It is obvious that you are not supposed to jump into a group of enemys, however i feel like i'm often getting focus fired even if i'm somewhere on the edge of the battle, maybe they just see an easy kill...

3) CC's, too many, too long, no useful counters except one on a long cd. We need to be in front of the target to inflict any damage, yet most have stronger&more cc's than we do. This is not too bad if you run with a decent team, and happen not to get huttball (which is for obvious reasons a marauders nightmare land).
Quick tip: if you jump up on huttball, position yourself between a lamppost and your enemy, you might neglect the knockback effect. (You will still get cc'd tho)
Unfortunately resolve is kinda pointless since it only applies to stuns, and takes too long to fill up for squishy classes (we are one, because medium armor doesn't make a difference at all)


4) Skillcap. I agree with people saying to be good with the marauder you have to try really hard, but the point is, even if you do your best, you most likely won't top an equally skilled player on a different class


To be clear here, i enjoy playing my marauder and i'm not asking for giant buffs, but some of the game mechanics are flawed and put close combat classes on a disadvantage. I'll appreciate any feedback & tips and ask you not to troll.

Oh, and I'm sure most of you know these issues and have seen countless threads like this one, i only wrote my own to increase awareness.

koymsgt's Avatar


koymsgt
01.02.2012 , 10:18 PM | #169
Quote: Originally Posted by brandonspikes View Post
The game gets worst at post 40, you are forced to use a healing companion.
Yea I notice that to man. I'm a level 48 Jedi Guardian and I can't even fight against a group of mobs without my healer companion. Tanks should be over to take on 3 mobs at once when at this level but no luck at all. I really hope Bio-Ware fixes this.
Kakashi Hatake

darthtoph's Avatar


darthtoph
01.02.2012 , 10:18 PM | #170
I would like the old Saber Throw ability back. You know, the one from beta who actually did decent damage and had a 30m range, not the current silly Saber Throw one that merely tickles your opponent. Other than that, I'm happy as Sentinel.

To the guy who said Force Camo is useless, u know you can heal up in the mean time yes? Don't even have to use medpacks. Guarded does the trick too. If called for, I wait till my health bar drops and pop the latter followed by Force Camo and heal up quite a bit while dealing out damage/crits.

Those 9-10 seconds of immortality should be plenty time to finish off your opponent. In most cases, it won't even come to that. And the reduced CD on Guarded from Champion gear is a nice bonus.
I don't judge a game by how old or new it is, I judge it by what it is when it is presented to me.