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Lethality PvP: Can It Work?

Psyentifica's Avatar

01.06.2018 , 04:27 AM | #1
I'm feeling Lethality a lot more than Concealment. Something about poisons and dotspecs really feels nice, you buildup and then just dump TAs into things, as many as you can. It's got a surprising amount of survivability for a stealth class and proc'ing Kolto Infusion on your roll lends really well to a sort of in-and-out skirmishing playstyle. It's very easy to get into trouble, but (barring electronet ) it's very easy to get out of trouble.

Problem is, well, it kinda sucks in PvP. You need at least two, more like four GCDs to run a full setup before you can start dumping damage. That means you need to bite and hold, setting up on a guy and sticking to him, but with heals, snares and physics everywhere, staying committed to a single target is...iffy. Particularly heals; heal/sec directly negates damage/sec, and Lethality thrives on damage/sec.

So, what's the niche? Generously spreading DoTs in teamfights on the middle? Harassing healers or RDPS in same? Using skirmishing and self-heals to defend or harass a side objective?

Psyentifica's Avatar

01.06.2018 , 04:27 AM | #2
inb4 "switch to concealment"

Aetideus's Avatar

01.06.2018 , 05:56 AM | #3
Lethality requires a complicated gameplay, as most of the dot specs, that discourages compared to Concealment.

It is a middle range spec, not melee .

Start setting up your dots from afar Dots (30m) > Toxic blast (10m) > Shiv + Lethality strike (4m) and then hit with TA Corosive assault. Don't setup the hits in 4m...The effect is similar to Concealment.

Huge AoE with Toxic Haze + Nuxious knives compared only to Hatred Assin.

Great self heals and off-heals, best in game.

People just don't try, while the total dps and pressure is by far higher than Concealment.

Soisa's Avatar

01.06.2018 , 09:13 AM | #4
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Iymurra's Avatar

01.06.2018 , 10:38 PM | #5
Lethality can be an incredible amount of fun in Ranked and Regs... or it can be an exercise in frustration.

Lethality falls into the trap of being well balanced and having good utilties. We actually have to make trades depending on what we want... 5% DR... 15s Debilitate Reduction... Holotraverse root purge... Evasive Imperative... etc.

If you end up playing in a team that allows you to skirmish, you'll do amazing. Being able to poke at range then run into 10m to burst is very fun playstyle. But if your teammates don't peel for you or otherwise help you out of focus fire you'll quickly find yourself dead.

Roots and Burst specs will be the bane of your existence. (Special shoutout to Jugs & Maras with roots on leap and high performing burst specs). Also remember that Evasion is a purge, so if you're fighting a dot Sin/Sorc. Wait for demolish to evasion and negate the burst.

Best advice I can give is find a healer who likes to PvP and give them many gifts so they pretend to like you and are willing to PvP with you. Bonus points if you also find a tank.

If you have proper support... Lethality is a top tier tankbuster class so if you do find tanks & heals indebted to you and forced to queue with you... mark those tanks and light them up!

Edit: Oh, and on the subject of offheals. Yes, Lethality has some of the highest potential HPS for a non-healer spec. HOWEVER all of your healing requires GCD investments and you won't be doing anything other than healing. Instant Infusion requires a 2 GCD investment (one roll, one cast) and is about 1 third the burst of a rage mara (available every 18s or so). Probes requires 2 GCDs to get going then 1 every... 18s? for reapplication... can mess with burst windows... etc.
And regardless of your offhealing potential, you cannot facetank jack diddly in PvP with Lethality Offheals as your DCDs are terrible and your heals are vulnerable to interrupts (hardcast infusion) roots (quickened infusion) or burst (probes)
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Mubrak's Avatar

01.07.2018 , 02:50 AM | #6
What Iymurra says. Either pick out tough targets in the grand melee when you have healer backup or an enemy team that cannot focus, or go for 1vs1 against opponents you can outlast (pretty much everything but concealment and deception), bonus points if they can't reach you while you melt them. If you feel a need to prove your viability vs. other operatives, pick a healer to duel.

Like all operatives you do pretty well harassing an off-node, you may not last as long under focus as concealment or medicine, but the damage you can dish out while kiting may make them call for help quicker than they should. And if they don't call for help, and have little burst themselves, we are the highest parsing single target spec.

Guarding is another thing, lacking concealment's initial burst, you will always fight them starting close to full health, so don't get too cocky and call inc. On the other hand, tanky classes burning through their best cooldowns the moment they hear an operative leaving stealth plays right into our hands, those 3GCDs that can mean life or death vs. a concealment op is all the time we need.

All in all there is little that concealment does that we can't do ourselves - our way.

Leth can't use roll as a DCD, but frankly that isn't that much of a help when focussed, instead of being a nuisance tumbling around the battlefield, we do damage, lots of it, relentlessly, while staying out of melee range most of the time. We suck at surprise attacks, but we can do our whole preparation from a distance, so we pick targets that can't fight back from range or are too distracted to do so in time. Concealment may win by a nose as a lone wolf, but Lethality is by far stronger in a team. And maybe the most important thing: We have a gun. We know how to use it.
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memerobot's Avatar

01.07.2018 , 03:13 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Soisa View Post
Nice numbers
Been a while since I saw a big one like that on Leth

memerobot's Avatar

01.07.2018 , 03:29 AM | #8
Lethality is good yet it can, well, mostly shine with good teammates behind honestly. Still when it shines, you'll be even amazed by it.

- Strongest Off-healer (I am accounting that it barely sacrifices resource management to give off great heals) compared to Sorcerer and Mercenary.
- A nightmare to the opponents if left unchecked ( happens pretty often if you ask me) in terms of DPS, since its highly underestimated.
- Can be clunky if you don't keep track of what you and your opponents are doing, otherwise smooth game play. I am aware its not the most friendly spec compared to Concealment but it gives good results if properly used.
- If you know the spec well, you know it has to do more about what you already used before rather than what you'll use next.
- Adapting to the situation quickly is a major factor to win, really.
- The only annoying thing you'll get is basically the cleanse of your dots and there's 3 classes (Marauder, Operative and Assassin, I believe) that negate the damage that you do.
- Always take the Blow for Blow ( At least I do. Its a detriment to whoever I am facing. In case they go bananas on me, I'll just go and punish them for that )
- And, well, by my experience, the only 2 specs that you are likely to be beaten by is Concealment Operative and Deception Assassin. You shouldn't lose to anything else in 1 v 1. You have the tools to beat everything else fairly easy. The other 2 its hard.

memerobot's Avatar

01.07.2018 , 03:39 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Aetideus View Post
Huge AoE with Toxic Haze + Nuxious knives compared only to Hatred Assin.

Noxious knives have questionable damage, honestly. I rarely feel the need to use them unless there's +3/4 players clumped up together.