Take this post with a grain of salt .. in fact, I think it might actually be my first on the forums as I tend to lurk and read more than anything else.

 

(That makes me sound like a stalker haha.)

 

Anyway, I've been PVPing less than a week and came to the forums to look around and see what I could find. There may be other threads like this and I did look, but it's also 6am so my eyes may have skimmed over them.

 

Just some observations I've noticed that make PVP to someone who has never PVP'd before from wanting to never try it again. And I will admit, I do not have thick skin, therefore I will NEVER go into ranked pvp. This is all in regards to the unranked warzones.

 

1) It's very discouraging halfway through a match (no matter the arena) to look up and see that people are dropping group simply because you are losing. In my mind, you deserve the lockout that you get for doing that.

 

Instead of leaving, stay and continue to help - even if it is a lost cause. It could be the person next to you's first time in there and you could have just saved them from being torn apart and because of that they will enter another match, and as a result, get better at what they're doing once they've gotten their feet wet in the arena's.

 

Saying "You guys suck" then immediately dropping group without uttering anything else the whole time is not encouraging.

 

Now tonight I actually had a disconnect (and we were winning lol) from a match and I got the lockout. I knew it was gonna lock me out and yes, that sucks because I didn't leave intentionally, but I figured it would happen. (I actually have video proof I lost connection ... ) I will say it's a shame a way to tell apart server disconnects vs intentional leaving can't be figured out but it is what it is.)

 

2) The rude talk during a match. I'm honestly horrified to think that adults (even young adults) are the ones talking like that during a match. "You idiots!" "You are the worst player ever!" "WHY ISN'T THE HEALER #*&*#(#(#()# HEALING ME NOW!" "This is a lost cause, you guys suck %^&*" And the list goes on and on ...

 

Again, it could be someone brand new to PVP. Or they could be new to a map. That huttball you just passed to me? I don't know what to do with it or how to throw it. Yes, I can figure it out in a couple seconds once I realize I'm holding the ball but by that time I'm taking a dirt nap ... there's no need to call me out specifically because I messed up. Are you perfect? No. You aren't. You want to know why I'm not over there healing you? It's because I'm healing someone who just defended a door from getting a bomb planted on it against 3 attackers.

 

3) Today I had a new one hit me. I finally got the Odessan WZ to come up. The tutorial was confusing to me and so I asked for clarification and was told "only losers play stealth classes". So when I ended up with some kind of glowy thing, I didn't know what to do with it. When the same person proceeded to call the entire group names, I did point out in chat that I had asked for clarification ... they didn't say a word to that and left towards the end before it was over. So tonight the same instance pops while I'm on my healer. I asked if someone could clarify how this area works, I was told to stay in a yellow area and don't leave it. I was still confused though and that same person who had at least answered me still left mid-match after calling us an awful group.

 

If someone asks for help, or an explanation, give a helpful one if you can. Chances are, it will be useful to more than one person and you might actually win the match if that's the case.

 

4) As someone who has a healer as a main, I go into the PVP unranked warzones to heal. If I can steal a door or let down a bridge or sneak a pylon, then I will. I know that the teams will often mark the opposing healer and as a result if I die alot, then it happens. I don't get mad or anything like that. I'm more annoyed over the fact that while I run back the people I was healing may have died.... But I can generally keep myself up for a bit but eventually everything is on cooldown. I know this and I expect this. However, during a match I have had someone from the opposite team (but same faction as myself) literally camp the place where we spawned in so I wouldn't have a choice but to run past him. I figured I was simply marked as a healer and yes I got annoyed on the 6th death but I figured it was what it was and knew the WZ would eventually end. Forward ahead a few minutes after the match ends and I see someone bragging in PVP chat that they just "farmed the lamest healer ever for numbers". And it was the same guy who was killing me.

 

At that point, PVP lost its fun for me and I had to take a break.

 

I am not a primary PVP player. I like the stories of the PVE world but now that I've tried it, I find that I don't dislike PVP as much as I thought I would. I don't play for kill numbers. I do like to see if I've healed the most when I'm on my healer but I know my DPS stealth character will never be able to compete with the heavy hitters of DPS and that's okay in my books. I'm playing to see if we can get to the final room in the voidstar arena (I like it the most) or if I can manage to bring some glowy orb thingies to the pylons ... I'm playing to have fun.

 

And right now, there is so much negativity in the arena's that it makes me want to stay away and while I will never do Ranked PVP, I do know that they are begging people to queue for it all the time. I would like to think that being positive, and should you go to an unranked WZ as opposed to a ranked one, and helping people - encouraging them even, that people would go to the warzones more and as a result gain more insight and be able to PVP better then when their ranked arena's opened you would have more ranked players playing.

 

Again, I'm sorry for the ramble but this just a healer's insight to her first week into PVP. Take from it what you will. I am not perfect. I do not claim to be. I do not fully know each arena map or even some of the objectives but each time I go into an arena, I learn something different. Whether it be about how I play, a map, or even just a new tactic - something is learned.

 

If you must insist on the name calling or whatever, while I still suggest you stop, take it elsewhere. Leave the unranked warzones to be a fun place to learn to PVP and just have fun.

Well, I think you were just unlucky tbh.

 

PvP can be fun, especially when you have done it a little longer and know how your class works and how things work. I mentioned it in another thread: It's not BioWare's fault that there is so much toxicity and rude people in PvP, therefore they can change whatever they want with their lockout and what not, it will never change the fact that people go into PvP area's to let off steam (and sometimes on other people).

 

I feel like especially on high populated servers like Darth Malgus/the US ones where there are still a high number of PvPers the number of toxic people is way higher than on a small populated server. For example: I play on the last remaining german server and a few years ago the toxicity here especially in PvP areas were ridiculous high. People were insulting each other all the time. One time I even had a full 5-men group of friends on the enemy team running after me for the whole game, ganking me and spaming emotes nonstop. Everytime I respawned they changed targets instantly and ran after me. That's one reason why TH feels like a dead server now when it comes to PvP, all these people transfered off, most likely to Darth Malgus. Now that all these people are gone, TH is a really enjoyable server when it comes to PvP.

 

If you don't like PvP because of that, well. Unlucky. Nobody can change the behaviour of other peoples. Take a break and come back another time when you feel like it if you had fun with PvP in general. If not, then just skip it. PvP in SWTOR may be fun sometimes but is not really important anyway. The rewards are outdated or nonexistent and even the ranked rewards are just rehashes of old ranked rewards from 2015~.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Jesseriah

You might find this helpful in understanding Odessen.

 

https://swtor-tryhard.github.io/pvpguide/

 

It was written by a community member a few years ago and the explanations for map mechanics is still relevant today.

Edited December 26, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

That's pretty much the solo experience of queuing for regs.

 

Some times you'll get solo's that actually do proper teamwork, but most times if you queue solo, you are going to be playing solo.

 

Proper objective playing can be fun, but sometimes you're better off when you don't know what you're supposed to do, especially if you're playing heals. Cap a node and all the dps run off leaving it undefended? Follow them, or you'll end up guarding all the time. ... and if you guard a node you'll be yelled for having bad numbers at the end of match.

 

Only good thing about queuing as solo heals is that you'll learn all the tricks to handling aggro. Aggro from PVE mobs will be no trouble at all after learning to deal with having 2 or 3 enemy players constantly on your butt (and no help from your teammates, don't expect anyone to help you when you queue solo).

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences in PvP. As someone that loves PvP I can definitely see all the negatively that stems from an anonymous competitive environment. I hope you stick with it. Try to ignore the toxicity and just enjoy the content. There is a lot to PvP in SWTOR and it can actually get really challenging and fun. My best advice is to play and practice on a different character. Burnt out of your healer? Try a marauder or sniper. The more you play all the different classes, the more you will learn about PvP in general. It's also a good way to get rewards. Completing the weeklies on many different toons is a good way to stack up on Tech Frags.

If you must insist on the name calling or whatever, while I still suggest you stop, take it elsewhere. Leave the unranked warzones to be a fun place to learn to PVP and just have fun.

 

This is a nice sentiment, but reading your post makes me wonder if you've ever played any competitive online games. People being mean to you is going to happen no matter what game you play. If they go over the line to threats, harassment, slurs, etc, then by all means report them and hopefully Bioware will punish them. But if it's just run of the mill stuff like calling you bad, there's nothing you can or should do about it.

 

Also, you're brand new to pvp, and you know that, so if people are **** talking you as if you're not, just don't let it bother you. Telling people you're brand new should shut a lot of them up too. After all, as you say, regs are the place to learn.

A new player points out all the **** thats been pointed out a million times. All the "no surely these lockouts will fix pvp" people roll in with 'Well maybe you should just put up with it'. Absolute clownshow.

As a new player it's normal to feel the way you do..

 

Come back after you played 10 000 games and share your thoughts again with us. I assure you that you'll gonna see things differently...

 

First of all toxicity , as bad as it is, it's a normal portal of competitive things... We are humans and sometimes we get mad and say things we end up regretting later.

 

 

You have to understand that getting good at anything requires time and practice plus some research . You are playing with and against players who are PVP-ing for years and are doing only that in SWTOR.

 

At this point you should focus on getting better and don't victimize yourself . It doesn't matter what some people trash talk about and what they do. All that matters is you getting better. After you are pretty decent, you won't care about a lot of things you wrote about.

 

Ranked PVP is something different . It's hard to get into it but it's something you adapt to in the long run. Usually people aren't toxic if you are a decent player. But if you die in 5 seconds every game ... people will get mad. And if you were in their shoes, you would get mad as well.

 

And when I say people aren't toxic in ranked, I really mean it. On my server ( DM) it's a nice atmosphere. They removed vote kick so they can't abuse you now . Compared to some years ago , the toxicity level is at a low point .

 

Good luck and have fun.

 

* the lockout for unranked is a TERRIBLE idea. I don't know how they could have thought that it's a good to punish me for getting maps I absolutely hate.. like lagball. *

Edited December 26, 2020 by DavidAtkinson

A new player points out all the **** thats been pointed out a million times. All the "no surely these lockouts will fix pvp" people roll in with 'Well maybe you should just put up with it'. Absolute clownshow.

 

I've never even had a strong position on lockouts. I do tend to think they're a good thing, but I understand other people's concerns with them. It seems Bioware doesn't want to normalize leaving games. Just because people got used to it, doesn't mean they're owed it or that it was good for the game.

 

Anyway, it seems to me that none of OP's core points have anything to do with the lockout anyway.

 

At this point you should focus on getting better and don't victimize yourself . It doesn't matter what some people trash talk about and what they do. All that matters is you getting better. After you are pretty decent, you won't care about a lot of things you wrote about.

 

This is an excellent way to approach pvp.

Edited December 26, 2020 by JediMasterAlex

I feel like- if the only way to succed in PVP, now, is to either queue in Unranked with a group that knows what it's doing, or to hope for the best, then PVP is not working the way it's supposed to. The advisable solution would be to remove the group option for PVP, but since I feel that people will flip out if that becomes a reality, then it has to be the opposite end of the spectrum: only being able to play PVP with a group, a la operations.

 

As it is, now, PVP is only getting worse and worse for the unranked solo queue.

The advisable solution would be to remove the group option for PVP, but since I feel that people will flip out if that becomes a reality,

.

 

It is never the right answer to restrict people from playing an mmo with their friends.

 

You have it close but reversed, the right answer is to make ranked group only remove the lockout as it is and attach the lockout to the votekick.

 

Problem 1. People were abusing votekick in solo ranked or dropping out to troll

 

Solution: A pivot to group ranked prevents the votekick abuse and you wont get many groups if you drop on them.

 

Problem 2. Class balance mismatches regarding tanks and heals in solo ranked

 

Solution. With ranked being group only your composition is in your own hands.

 

Problem 3. People queueing up in sub par gear for ranked, (which was a big cause of votekicked abuse)

 

Solution. Group ranked...take some control over who you pvp with. This also lets the new to ranked player have a chance to encounter some people OUTSIDE the bounds of mid match to talk about gear issues.

 

Problem 4. People deliberately throwing matches in regs

 

Solution. Giving votekick in regs some actual teeth at least buys 15 minutes to queue up again without them around.

I am sticking with it. And I think I am getting better. Not only in PVP but also I've noticed it's affected my healing in PVE as well (In a positive way).

 

As for the lockouts, I barely mentioned it in the first post but my opinion on it is if you leave in a match because the team you're on is losing, then I feel you deserve the lockout. But that is just my own 1/2 cent on that. I know others feel differently.

 

I have played many MMO's in the past but I've never PVP'd before, because as I mentioned, I know I don't have the thick skin that some do. I play on a character until it isn't fun on that character, no matter the reason. Tonight I played my healer, my stealth char, my tank, and a shadow dps. The latter two I had never taken in before but I wanted to see how different disciplines do in different places.

 

And I do realize that it's a good place to let off steam, but must one let off steam by going off on their own team about how lame they are or how crappy they are instead of helping them, even if it truly is a lost cause? I would like to think that people are still capable of being civil.

 

Maybe I'm just too optimistic.

 

And thank you for that link to the guide. I'm about half way through reading it (and taking notes - yes, I'm that kind of nerd haha).

 

And I have had some positive experiences. It's not all been negative ... And I imagine the ones that do the trash talking I mentioned in the original post do not even read the forums. I just wanted to share what I observed my first week (I'm up to valor 53 on my healer now!) and just offer comments that I thought might be helpful but should probably be taken with a grain of salt. :-)

And I do realize that it's a good place to let off steam, but must one let off steam by going off on their own team about how lame they are or how crappy they are instead of helping them, even if it truly is a lost cause? I would like to think that people are still capable of being civil.

 

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to justify that kind of behavior. I'm merely pointing out that it's an unavoidable occurrence in all competitive online games.

 

Another aspect of this worth pointing out is that people are often wrong when they get angry. Even some experienced pvpers will erroneously blame people when it wasn't their fault, but they just feel like venting. Sometimes people in ranked complain about someone on their team when the loss was their own fault, probably just to deflect, etc.

 

And I have had some positive experiences. It's not all been negative ... And I imagine the ones that do the trash talking I mentioned in the original post do not even read the forums. I just wanted to share what I observed my first week (I'm up to valor 53 on my healer now!) and just offer comments that I thought might be helpful but should probably be taken with a grain of salt. :-)

 

I'm glad you're sticking to it and having fun, keep up the good work!

Edited December 27, 2020 by JediMasterAlex

I am sticking with it. And I think I am getting better. Not only in PVP but also I've noticed it's affected my healing in PVE as well (In a positive way).

 

As for the lockouts, I barely mentioned it in the first post but my opinion on it is if you leave in a match because the team you're on is losing, then I feel you deserve the lockout. But that is just my own 1/2 cent on that. I know others feel differently.

 

I have played many MMO's in the past but I've never PVP'd before, because as I mentioned, I know I don't have the thick skin that some do. I play on a character until it isn't fun on that character, no matter the reason. Tonight I played my healer, my stealth char, my tank, and a shadow dps. The latter two I had never taken in before but I wanted to see how different disciplines do in different places.

 

And I do realize that it's a good place to let off steam, but must one let off steam by going off on their own team about how lame they are or how crappy they are instead of helping them, even if it truly is a lost cause? I would like to think that people are still capable of being civil.

 

Maybe I'm just too optimistic.

 

And thank you for that link to the guide. I'm about half way through reading it (and taking notes - yes, I'm that kind of nerd haha).

 

And I have had some positive experiences. It's not all been negative ... And I imagine the ones that do the trash talking I mentioned in the original post do not even read the forums. I just wanted to share what I observed my first week (I'm up to valor 53 on my healer now!) and just offer comments that I thought might be helpful but should probably be taken with a grain of salt. :-)

 

You can also try doing a google for a player named Snave. He’s done how to video guides around pvp basics, tactics and strategy. I think he has some of them on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtHb5VwuYcODt-4hFRJYf3A

OP, keep your chin up. Like every other aspect of this game, there can be good and bad experiences and pvp is certainly not the exception. I can say though, if you stick it out, there will be more good than bad. Swtor pvp can be really fun! Edited December 29, 2020 by Nickodemous

I feel like- if the only way to succed in PVP, now, is to either queue in Unranked with a group that knows what it's doing, or to hope for the best, then PVP is not working the way it's supposed to.

 

As it is, now, PVP is only getting worse and worse for the unranked solo queue.

 

Thats exactly how PVP is supposed to work, you solo Q and hope for the best... Queing up with a group is never a guarantee for a win, obviously having 3 other like minded team mates with a working knowledge of the game can give you an edge over inexperienced people, but you never really know who you're going to go up against.

 

I've been playing mids PVP for the past month or so on my free 10 weekly WZs. I always Q solo, i dont have friends who play this game and I'd say i have about a 60% win rate where the majority of WZs are arenas.

If you don't win, then whatever, you Q for the next one and hope for the best.

I've been playing for a bit longer now in unranked. (Again, I'll never do ranked.) I rotate between my healer and one of my stealth characters. I've discovered bits about myself, my game style, and the community. Some positive, some not so much. I have two char's up to valor around 60ish I think.

 

1) I am objective oriented. I cannot hit hard enough on my dps stealth (any of them) to solo someone and I have no desire too. Voidstar is by far my favorite map, more preferably for my stealth char, but I also like healing, especially when I can sneak a door as a healer (no one expects that haha).

 

2) At the end of the WZ, if you didn't call anyone stupid and tried to help, whether by calling out if something was about to be overrun, etc, I do not sort by damage, I sort by objectives. Damage numbers mean nothing to me. (I am aware that 99% of the people do not agree with this, I'm weird and know it. ) I generally do the MVP that way. If I'm on my healer, the only numbers I look besides objectives is to see how much I healed.

 

3) I will NEVER be good at 4v4. I cannot stand the matches. There is no actual objective other than to go beat people up. As a healer, they either come straight for me to kill me, or they CC me, and I expect this. As a stealth DPS, I'm often the first to die - left to call out in group chat who has the lowest health in an attempt to help someone while I'm taking a dirt nap.

 

Of course, there was one game that wonderful randomly matched up system put me against 3. More people spawned in, but it was after the match had started. (Seriously, if one team only has 1 person on it, isn't there a safeguard to prevent it from starting?!) I literally stealthed around them, occasionally smacking them, but that first match went on for like 3 minutes of me stealthing until I got caught in one of their traps. It sucked, but it was also partially funny because I knew I had absolutely no chance.

 

4) Huttball haunts me. One day, between two chars, I played 15 WZ's ... 11 were Huttball. ELEVEN! And I don't mind it if the team I'm on happens to at least try to score - whether we win or not, that is the fun of it. But I was in a group the other day where the other team scored 5 and then for the last however many minutes in the game, all 8 of them stood where the huttball spawns, passed the ball back and forth so no one would explode, and anytime anyone tried to approach to attempt to take the ball, they were slaughtered in 1/8th of a second. They were running up their numbers. THAT is not fun.

 

Another day, I watched someone on my own team get the huttball and either 1) literally throw it away or 2) throw it to where it is going to be intercepted. At first I was like, well it happens, they did have a bunch of people gunning for them ... but the same person kept doing it over and over to where I wasn't the only one mad on our team. It got to the point we had to try to get the ball before he/she did so we could have an inkling of a chance to score.

 

I think it may have been in a post I saw by Trixxie (I won't swear to it though) that maybe if they fixed it to where you could only see your own numbers at the end of a match, maybe some of that would stop. (Thought I imagine not all because some people actually LIKE to be jerks, though what that gains them, I'll never understand.)

 

5) I seem to move more easily in PVE now as a result of playing in PVP and still keep a group alive, so PVP has helped me in that area.

 

I've made a couple of friends that are also objective oriented and have learned that while the toxicity is there, there are some other like minded individuals that will speak up and remind people that the negativity is not good for morale and that' it's a game.

 

Although I do find it intriguing that I've ignored people and yet I still find myself grouped with them. But when the toxicity starts or the griefing (see Huttball up above, to me, that is griefing even though it's in the parameters of the game) starts, I simply go back to PVE and wait until another set of people get online. Yesterday I played a few matches, lost some, won most, but they were all great. Only thing that was said in chat was when someone needed help defending and people came. I told one of my friends this and they asked if I had changed servers. haha I was like nope!

 

I'm still sticking with it.. I will never leave a match and if I do, it means my internet has crapped out. (The breaker blew once, apparently it did not like the space heater I keep at my desk.) My opinion on the lockout that I stated earlier has not changed. I feel that if you leave a match once it has started, just because the team you are on is losing, then I feel you deserve it. I often want to say (but do not, I will literally bite my tongue) for them to enjoy the lockout. But then i have to remind myself that's me stooping to their level. (Although I do say it in my head - can't be helped.)

 

Do I think things can be better? Yes. I would love the option to not go into certain WZ's ... Let's say there 10 maps (not sure how many), give us the option to uncheck 1 or 2, that way there is still a variety and you aren't put in a map that you cannot stand. But not uncheck all but one that way you aren't literally doing just one map. The thing I said up above (that I absolutely do not take credit for, like I said, I think it was in a post somewhere Trixxie posted) about only seeing your own numbers and no one elses. I think that would help too.

 

And I realize that I'm still new to PVP (not quite a month I don't think, not actually sure) and that I'm in a minority here about a lot of things, this is just my take and what I've observed. My 2 cents, as it were. I still read the guides and watch the videos. I've recorded some myself (though I wish I had recorded the two huttballs I mentioned above) not to post (altho for those I'd have made an exception) but so I can go back and be like, I should have done that, and I definitely did not see them there, etc ... things that try to make me more situational aware.

Quick feed back on one thing you may not know.

 

The ignore feature in pvp is completely different than PvE. It will still put you on teams or against teams of people you have on your ignore list,

 

All it really does is stops you from communicating with that person, which can be an issue in pvp if they are calling incs or you are.

Edited January 12, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

Quick feed back on one thing you may not know.

 

The ignore feature in pvp is completely different than PvE. It will still put you on teams or against teams of people you have on your ignore list,

 

All it really does is stops you from communicating with that person, which can be an issue in pvp if they are calling incs or you are.

 

Sadly, I discovered this once i realized I was still being grouped with ignored people. :/ I've pulled a couple of them off of ignore but some I only did long enough to get through the match and back on they went b/c if anything the toxicity had become worse.