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Please can you increase the guild ban list limit

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Please can you increase the guild ban list limit

timovdt's Avatar


timovdt
02.09.2020 , 01:59 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
You need to realize you are not the only biggest guild out there. There are quite a few guilds with the same size and structure as yours and they dont come here crying about stuff they wanna add. How about you just try to work stuff out yourself?

A big guild is a big responsibility so deal with it. Each change they make to suit your personal needs will make the game more complex and even slower, so please instead of relying on Devs to do the job for you improve your hiring process, remove guild inv rights from people that shouldnt have them etc. If you cant make a big guild then just let it be.
Tbh this is irelivant lists like this should only be limited bye server capacity so having 1-2 k of them is more then fine
same with ignorelists not asmutch as a problem here but in other games i can cap out my ignorelist quite easy and thats just as infuriating as this isssue for gms. but atleast there is a systme in place so thats something

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
02.09.2020 , 09:21 AM | #12
If it's not going to be a big issues (programming wise) I'd see no reason for not doing. The fact that they were able to increase personal lists, i can't see why they can't for guilds though
You know you can't fix an idiot, turns out you can't quarantine them either!!!
Feel free to click the link and get all the usual goodies
http://www.swtor.com/r/jFXFFQ

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
02.09.2020 , 11:25 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by UlaVii View Post
Can you wait until Monday before you start replying here with your other accounts to back yourself up like you usually do. It will help bump the thread.
It seems you are rather using your guild lackys to support your statement xD
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link

UlaVii's Avatar


UlaVii
02.11.2020 , 06:44 AM | #14
Most of the people who posted here are not guild members. You of all people should know that many guilds try to keep out trolls and find the in-game ban system to be useful, if not limited.

Dear producers, please significantly increase the limit so we can continue to keep out the trolls. As you can see, some of them continue for years.

jedimasterjac's Avatar


jedimasterjac
02.11.2020 , 01:39 PM | #15
How on earth are you needing to ban so many unique accounts? Just actually filter out people you recruit.
Quote: Originally Posted by Grand Master Yoda
We are what they grow beyond. That is the burden of all masters.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
02.12.2020 , 01:21 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by jedimasterjac View Post
How on earth are you needing to ban so many unique accounts? Just actually filter out people you recruit.
Thats what I am saying. The idea of a guild ban is silly itself. I mean if you want to take it seriously and have a solid guild roster then just have a good recruiting process. Why demand this from the Devs? Every change they make takes its toll on the game itself and the engine. Its more information to process. Then we have PVPers complaining about lag etc cause one guild cant properly recruit people.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
02.12.2020 , 01:23 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by UlaVii View Post
Dear producers, please significantly increase the limit so we can continue to keep out the trolls. As you can see, some of them continue for years.
Just how exactly do trolls work in a guild? What do they do? If you invite new people they get a rank, which limits them to do anything so what is the problem? If you want someone to increase in rank you need to know that person already so if he is a troll and you promoted him its your fault.

I cant really understand the need for bans here. The guild tools provide you with everything you need to fight against these trolls. You wanted a big guild, you have it, now dont be lazy and work for it.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link

cyrusramsey's Avatar


cyrusramsey
02.12.2020 , 01:47 AM | #18
I'm not against increasing the limit, but if I think back on the history of all my guilds in this game, I can think of two examples of people that this feature was created for, people that hold grudges and go out of their way to cause trouble for those that they believe have slighted them.

Considering this to be a feature of escalation, one to be used when a simple kick has proven ineffective, or even in scenarios such as the person in question having gravely violated trust in a guild, it seems so unlikely to me that this limit would be reached this quickly.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I can't help but wonder if this isn't a case of reaching for the most powerful tool in many situations that a much less drastic action (you know, kicking someone) would've been more than sufficient. I'm sympathetic to the idea of not wanting to see someone join the guild with a different (legacy) name if they can't behave themselves with the first one (I've been frequently baffled at how people have argued against legacy-ignoring with the argument that they might want to troll on one character, but behave well on others ), but if there's no indication that these people actually will try this, then a ban is.. or should be premature.

As I said, I don't want to jump to conclusions, I don't know that that is what is actually going on, and I'm not against the limit being stretched some, but when is it going to be enough, really? If you filled 185 slots now, how long will it take you to fill 1000? Will you be asking for a higher limit when you hit that?

UlaVii's Avatar


UlaVii
02.12.2020 , 04:57 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by cyrusramsey View Post
I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I can't help but wonder if this isn't a case of reaching for the most powerful tool in many situations that a much less drastic action (you know, kicking someone) would've been more than sufficient. I'm sympathetic to the idea of not wanting to see someone join the guild with a different (legacy) name if they can't behave themselves with the first one (I've been frequently baffled at how people have argued against legacy-ignoring with the argument that they might want to troll on one character, but behave well on others ), but if there's no indication that these people actually will try this, then a ban is.. or should be premature.
We get people trying to sneak back in on a quite regular basis. We've had one person asking for invites with 5 different characters over the last week. They were banned on the first for straight away writing insults to an officer after they were initially invited. They then spent over an hour /w me and others in guild abuse about the officer and the rest of us for not re-inviting them. They also took it to fleet chat. Then later that night they relogged and asked another officer to invite them, not mentioning they had already been banned. When the system blocked them they confessed it was them and continued their rant about the first officer. Over the last 5 days they have tried to join with 3 more characters. We have explained how the in-game ban system works but they seem to enjoy wasting officer's time as they are asking several for the invite with each character. To save our time we just post the new character name in our officer channel so the others know to avoid it.

Another is an ex officer who got infected with elitism who became extremely toxic and then massively betrayed us all to try and show off for the others in his circle. He continued that way for several months after his kick, then took a break from the game and now he messages me and other officers trying to get re-invited every 4-6 weeks using several characters. That one is a bit lazy though and generally uses one character each time, so he messages 4-5 of us with one character, gives up and then tries again with another character a few weeks later.

Another example is someone in this thread I won't name who keeps trying to shoot down the idea of increasing the limit. They tried to join using over 30 characters and numerous accounts spanning more than 6 months. One of the reasons they were banned was for multi-botting in GSF and suiciding 4-5 ships at the same time to ruin matches. They did this daily for ~6 months. BW did nothing about it despite tickets and videos. The troll tried to use this as one of several blackmail attempts to get back in guild: https://i.imgur.com/ApWcw88.jpg they regularly wrote crap like that in the /gsf and fleet channels publicly stating they would stop ruining matches if we let them join our guild. To that "person"; there you go, you got the attention you were seeking, feel free to keep bumping the thread to prove my point further.

The "you should have better screening" point has been raised a couple of times in this thread. To me the in-game ban list is the ultimate in first line screening. We haven't posted a recruitment message in well over 5 years as we are very active and people ask to join because they like what they see. We frequently get 10-20 invite requests a day and whilst we do have around 20 officers who handle invites as part of their basic officer duties the actual number online varies hugely depending on day/time/availability etc. Sometimes there will be 5 online and sometimes just 1. We also have 2 Imp guilds and 1 Rep so officers are spread out. We've had a set process in action for years to check people. We do this as quickly and passively as possible since the majority that join have not caused any problems.

We don't just use the list for keeping trolls from sneaking back in, we also use it proactively. A lot of trolls seem to think that their behaviour should only be counted on a per-character basis. To me that is garbage and it's the player behind the keyboard. Three nights ago I watched one person randomly insulting pretty much anyone who wrote in fleet chat. Various insults to trigger a response like telling them what size of ***** they are banging their mom's *** with, stating that people from certain countries deserve to be wiped out with coronavirus etc. Two nights ago it was someone ranting for over an hour about how all gays should be castrated and burned etc. Both of those players were added to the list. They were not in guild with those characters but now they can never join. An added bonus is that if they did have other characters in the guild then those are removed.

Why would we ever want people like that in our guild? Trash is trash regardless of the character they hide behind.

Quote: Originally Posted by cyrusramsey View Post
As I said, I don't want to jump to conclusions, I don't know that that is what is actually going on, and I'm not against the limit being stretched some, but when is it going to be enough, really? If you filled 185 slots now, how long will it take you to fill 1000? Will you be asking for a higher limit when you hit that?
I 100% understand you questioning if 1000 will be enough and won't we just ask for a higher number when that is reached. The answer is a question, how many trolls will keep joining this game on our server? I can't predict that but clearly it's at least 185 already

The in-game ban list helps us keep our guild free of these kinds of undesirables. We've been a guild in this game that has run without breaks for ~8 years now and our existing methods of screening people and removing trouble makers clearly works or we wouldn't still be here. The in-game ban list is a great extra utility to have which we use alongside our current methods. I am not asking for the functionality to be changed or the bugs with it to be fixed. I just want the limit increased or removed. Keep in mind that when this feature was added there was no mention of a limit although we all suspected there would be one.

Moving forwards, if the limit was increased and actually stated in advance then we would use the in-game feature more sparingly and definitely with better notes for each entry

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
02.12.2020 , 06:26 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by UlaVii View Post
Both of those players were added to the list. They were not in guild with those characters but now they can never join.
There you go, this is exactly the issue. You preemptively ban people! No wonder you have reached the limit. So someone writes he doesnt like gays and you are gay so you will ban him upfront if he tries to enter you guild. I mean thats a bit crazy, dont you think?

As you said 1000 may not be enough, but where will it end? I tell you where, when there will be 10000 players in the game and from those 3000 will be in your 3 guilds and 7000 will be baned to enter, maybe then you will be satisfied. As it was said in this thread even 100 ppl limit for ban should be enough. If you however stand on fleet and read chat and ban people "just in case" then you will need an endless limit (which will damage the game in the end).

On one side I feel sorry for you having such a big guild because its an unnecessary burden, you attract all of the scum in this game, god knows why. On the other side, thats what you get when you overdo it.
Merovejec
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