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Sorc/Sage dps


SEANeD

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Unicorns are trolling me saying Sorc dps are a liability to the team because they suck and all sorcs should heal. Its gotten to the point where the second I come on they are trolling me about stuff unrelated to the game. Say what you will about my dps, but don't trash sorcs/sage dps. We are a proud group of people who have overcome much adversity.

 

Please discuss....

Edited by SEANeD
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they (or at least the vocal ones) are equal opportunity trolls. they'll just as happily make your life miserable as any pub opponent. best just to ignore them. as for the refusal to heal thing, if that's true, maybe take screenies and put in a ticket. that might pass for griefing.
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Sorc dps has its viability all be it atm it is limited and its a different style of ranked due to most teams enjoying to use cc. But any of the dot specs imo are completely viable as they put overall pressure on the team. Just my opinion ^^ Edited by totherkins
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Sages/Sorcs are mathematically capable of putting up equivalent damage numbers on the scoreboard as almost any other DPS class/build in the game, save for smashers. Obviously if you play poorly relative to others then your numbers will be lower; the reverse applies also - if you're a better player than everyone else your numbers will be higher. Obviously what you do in a warzone matters too. If you're guarding a node or not attacking anyone of course your numbers will be low. If you're constantly attacking then your numbers will be high.

 

However, more importantly, Sages/Sorcs are capable of and should be putting up very high damage numbers (read: near top of the scoreboard) simultaneously with healing. Imagine doing the same damage as a Pyro or a Sentinel, but having 100k-400k healing on the side. I'm talking a 2:1 ratio damage/healing all the way to 1.5:1 damage/healing. And I'm going to be completely honest here, I've only seen one other Sage/Sorc do that in my entire experience with this game aside from myself and thats Inmortal, probably a better player than I. Most Sages/Sorcs will put up something anywhere from a 5:1 ratio damage/healing to all the way to 10:1 damage/healing. Why do I stress this? Because no other class can reliably and easily do that. It's a game changer. Look at the damage/healing hybrid category in the PvP records thread, its dominated by Sages/Sorcs (yours truly being in there). I can provide plenty of screenies where I play with and against very impressive players to prove my point.

 

Anyone who tells you Sage/Sorc DPS is bad is saying that because they're not brutally dominant like a Sentinel or Pyro. Which is entirely true. You don't have consistent frontloaded burst damage which is all the rage in rateds. But if you play the class to the fullest I promise you, you won't be overlooked in rateds.

Edited by Underpowered
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Sages/Sorcs are mathematically capable of putting up equivalent damage numbers on the scoreboard as almost any other DPS class/build in the game, save for smashers. Obviously if you play poorly relative to others then your numbers will be lower; the reverse applies also - if you're a better player than everyone else your numbers will be higher. Obviously what you do in a warzone matters too. If you're guarding a node or not attacking anyone of course your numbers will be low. If you're constantly attacking then your numbers will be high.

 

However, more importantly, Sages/Sorcs are capable of and should be putting up very high damage numbers (read: near top of the scoreboard) simultaneously with healing. Imagine doing the same damage as a Pyro or a Sentinel, but having 100k-400k healing on the side. I'm talking a 2:1 ratio damage/healing all the way to 1.5:1 damage/healing. And I'm going to be completely honest here, I've only seen one other Sage/Sorc do that in my entire experience with this game aside from myself and thats Inmortal, probably a better player than I. Most Sages/Sorcs will put up something anywhere from a 5:1 ratio damage/healing to all the way to 10:1 damage/healing. Why do I stress this? Because no other class can reliably and easily do that. It's a game changer. Look at the damage/healing hybrid category in the PvP records thread, its dominated by Sages/Sorcs (yours truly being in there). I can provide plenty of screenies where I play with and against very impressive players to prove my point.

 

Anyone who tells you Sage/Sorc DPS is bad is saying that because they're not brutally dominant like a Sentinel or Pyro. Which is entirely true. You don't have consistent frontloaded burst damage which is all the rage in rateds. But if you play the class to the fullest I promise you, you won't be overlooked in rateds.

 

Madness I get pretty good heals from dots. Not 2:1, but somewhere close. My dots give pretty strong heals, but I only tab dot when we have a node so I could stay alive better. I also do it when i'm being chased or in a voidstar between doors when we're attacking so its an easier kill if we couldn't slow them down. As far as straight up burst all my dots hitting with deathmark plus my force lightning puts out strong burst. I can also apply strong AOE pressure. ( specced into force suffusion). I think there is a huge misconception about this class, although the people giving me **** about it are just trolling, because many ask for things like cover or more burst when we are fine with what we have. I like playing madness because it forces healers to stop healing and purge, or heal through it. It also gives me a certain degree of control over the enemy team. The rules I follow as a madness are to use death field, creeping terror, and crushing darkness whenever its off cool down.

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The only class that simply should not be dpsing over heals is operative/scoundrel. Sorc dps is viable, we use a bubble stun dps sorc depending on the comp in rateds sometimes.

 

If the sorc was full lightning, but didn't have a bubble stun, would he still be in rateds?

 

At the moment, the only redeeming characteristics dps sorcs have is that they can bubble stun. Nobody wants a tab dotting, sustained damaging class in pvp, thats why PT's and lolsmashers are so prevalent. Front loaded, on demand burst dps. This is what is king in pvp. Force a healer to cleanse for a gcd, or hit him for a 5k smash, that requires about 3-4 heals to resolve, between himself and the aoe team damage? Seems like the smash would take the cake.

 

This is a nice thread, i'm glad Unicorn is back in the spotlight, tbh. However, I think most people aren't realizing that it's Seane that has the issue with how I play, and Senae that is telling me what my class should be doing. Are sins the best node guarders? I think so. Are sorcs the best healers? I also think so. However, forcing someone to only fill one roll because of their class is childish and mundane, as is creating a thread on the forums to whine about it.

 

I suppose I should insert the notion that Seane, the pot, is calling me, the kettle, black. Play how you want, Seane, i'll play how I want, and stop complaining and calling me out in imp pvp or on the forums.

Edited by Simmerr
Adjusted pronouns references
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If the sorc was full lightning, but didn't have a bubble stun, would he still be in rateds?

 

At the moment, the only redeeming characteristics dps sorcs have is that they can bubble stun. Nobody wants a tab dotting, sustained damaging class in pvp, thats why PT's and lolsmashers are so prevalent. Front loaded, on demand burst dps. This is what is king in pvp. Force a healer to cleanse for a gcd, or hit him for a 5k smash, that requires about 3-4 heals to resolve, between himself and the aoe team damage? Seems like the smash would take the cake.

 

This is a nice thread, i'm glad Unicorn is back in the spotlight, tbh. However, I think most people aren't realizing that it's you that has the issue with how I play, and you that is telling me what my class should be doing. Are sins the best node guarders? I think so. Are sorcs the best healers? I also think so. However, forcing someone to only fill one roll because of their class is childish and mundane, as is creating a thread on the forums to whine about it.

 

I suppose I should insert the notion that you, the pot, is calling me, the kettle, black. Play how you want, i'll play how I want, and stop complaining and calling me out in imp pvp or on the forums.

4 snipers could counter 4 smasher. And if 4 smashers were the best thing ever then why aren't the best ranked teams running with them? Because they have too much pride? BS. If they thought it was the best thing to do then they would run 4 smashers. As for calling you out, I believe it was completely necessary because if you admit to not caring I want to inform people what happens when you don't care and tell other pugs to sit out the game and guard the off node so you could get 100k deeps and 30k protection and laugh off the loss with the guys in mumble while the players that actually give a **** and want to get better weren't getting a chance because they wasted there time by staying in the same match as you. Worst part of it is you guys couldn't own up to a loss. So people that want to play have to clean up a triple cap mess left by you guys. Not saying that this happens every game. You guys do win, but when you lose there is no need for 20 imps to walk into a crap game.

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The only class that simply should not be dpsing over heals is operative/scoundrel. Sorc dps is viable, we use a bubble stun dps sorc depending on the comp in rateds sometimes.

 

indeed, bubble-stun is (or was) clearly designed with the dps tree in mind. it's just so damn powerful that it was worth sacking aoe healing to spec into for healers. but aside from that, as the rated scene stands today, you could bring any spec of dps in, even the dreaded gunnery commando. it entirely depends on whether your team is willing to work with the tools it has.

 

brief aside, when bloodline was fielding a team on CO, we didn't have a regular combat sent or a shadow. we still managed to beat everybody other than LD50 and infidels (in the one match we played before they went away - which was a stalemate CW). my point? composition is important for the very best. but play your own spec. trust me, that's not why you're not getting pops (or why it's always the same 2 guilds).

Edited by foxmob
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4 snipers could counter 4 smasher. And if 4 smashers were the best thing ever then why aren't the best ranked teams running with them? Because they have too much pride? BS. If they thought it was the best thing to do then they would run 4 smashers. As for calling you out, I believe it was completely necessary because if you admit to not caring I want to inform people what happens when you don't care and tell other pugs to sit out the game and guard the off node so you could get 100k deeps and 30k protection and laugh off the loss with the guys in mumble while the players that actually give a **** and want to get better weren't getting a chance because they wasted there time by staying in the same match as you. Worst part of it is you guys couldn't own up to a loss. So people that want to play have to clean up a triple cap mess left by you guys. Not saying that this happens every game. You guys do win, but when you lose there is no need for 20 imps to walk into a crap game.

 

TL : DR

 

Read my last paragraph. Don't call me out for not playing my class role, and then cry when people call you out for not playing your role. That's all I'm frustrated with, the blatant hypocrisy. Every single argument you make against me is applicable to your class too , until you start healing every single game.

 

QQ more

Edited by Simmerr
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I really think the forums are here for a good laugh (lets face it, it's the same 24 people going back and forth over and over). So given the rash of people on this server who start something with another player or group of players, run their mouths relentlessly, then either a) report the player they started the argument with or b) report the player they originally started said argument with and then get someone else in their guild to report and get threads removed that relate to whatever they started (referring to certain, but NOT by any means all, members of Hail Skroob and Prime Defense). I figured I'd try to set this story straight before this thread also gets removed. This Seane dude decided to start the trash talking on the forums to Stryker with this post:

Serious reason that may also get you guys better and get more imp wins- Your assassins never want to guard an off node. If you're all on the same mumble and we have an assassin guard then you guys can alert incs much faster. I was in a game where one of your players stood up for an assassin not guarding because he was a dps. He was the only stealth in the group and a 16k merc ended up guarding. Only twice in the coutless premades ive been in with you guys has a US player guarded. Highwaytoo voluntarily and Man'son after I asked for a stealth that can guard 3 times in ops chat before the match.

Seane please watch this http://www.bradleey.com/ from our sister guild on the Euro server and realize an Assassin (who has the most utility of any other class in the game ie a push, a pull, and stealth capabilities) can be used for so much more than node guarding for you. The argument that "Sorc dps is not viable" is a TROLL and they are taking your argument and using it against you (if an Assassin is solely there for node guarding for you then a Sorc should be solely there for healing us lmao) I now realize this form of humor is obviously over your head and you are taking everything people are saying to you in the most literal sense possible. You are either an idiot or don't know what you are getting yourself into but I'm telling you right now, let it go dude. You started the troll with Stryker and Unicorn Stampede, and you were the one who started using impvp channel to further your troll. I have never had an issue with you but now you are taking a small piece of this original argument and taking it to the forums for support on a complete fabrication of facts. This has nothing to do with anyone actually believing sorc dps is not viable but how Seane is being a...

(any Ween fans, but probably not Seane, will understand this) who decided to try to troll troll's and is now trying to get sympathy on the forums because he can't handle dealing with what he started. I apologize for having to point this out to you on the forums in front of everyone but it is your own fault for taking something you started, lying about what is actually going on, then bringing it here for sympathy.

 

-Ship

Edited by Hoooty
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Sorc dps has its viability all be it atm it is limited and its a different style of ranked due to most teams enjoying to use cc. But any of the dot specs imo are completely viable as they put overall pressure on the team. Just my opinion ^^

 

I use the telekinetic tree in pvp and works for me =o, i enjoy it

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If the sorc was full lightning, but didn't have a bubble stun, would he still be in rateds?

 

At the moment, the only redeeming characteristics dps sorcs have is that they can bubble stun. Nobody wants a tab dotting, sustained damaging class in pvp, thats why PT's and lolsmashers are so prevalent. Front loaded, on demand burst dps. This is what is king in pvp. Force a healer to cleanse for a gcd, or hit him for a 5k smash, that requires about 3-4 heals to resolve, between himself and the aoe team damage? Seems like the smash would take the cake.

 

This is a nice thread, i'm glad Unicorn is back in the spotlight, tbh. However, I think most people aren't realizing that it's you that has the issue with how I play, and you that is telling me what my class should be doing. Are sins the best node guarders? I think so. Are sorcs the best healers? I also think so. However, forcing someone to only fill one roll because of their class is childish and mundane, as is creating a thread on the forums to whine about it.

 

I suppose I should insert the notion that you, the pot, is calling me, the kettle, black. Play how you want, i'll play how I want, and stop complaining and calling me out in imp pvp or on the forums.

 

I never told YOU what to play. All I was saying is that each class has a defined role to play in a competitive game. Playing something just for fun in regs is fine but that's not ehat I was talking about. As much as I'd like to play watchman, it's not viable In rateds anymore.

Edited by EnzoForMe
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Sage dps and its ranked viability on live, I honestly would only bring a sage dps if there was no Gs/Sniper available. And even then a sage can't effect a match in the way a Gs/sniper can.

 

Yes I can put up very high numbers, if the other team isn't retarded and simply takes out the weakest link on your rated team. To the other dps in the game, you're an easy kill, **** I eat other sages alive most of the time.

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Sage dps and its ranked viability on live, I honestly would only bring a sage dps if there was no Gs/Sniper available. And even then a sage can't effect a match in the way a Gs/sniper can.

 

Yes I can put up very high numbers, if the other team isn't retarded and simply takes out the weakest link on your rated team. To the other dps in the game, you're an easy kill, **** I eat other sages alive most of the time.

 

The comp which we bring the bubble stun dps sorc is when we have a merc healer and a scoundrel healer since the teams we play are usually smash heavy. But if you're running a scoundrel/sage healer I completely agree.

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Sage dps and its ranked viability on live, I honestly would only bring a sage dps if there was no Gs/Sniper available. And even then a sage can't effect a match in the way a Gs/sniper can.

 

Yes I can put up very high numbers, if the other team isn't retarded and simply takes out the weakest link on your rated team. To the other dps in the game, you're an easy kill, **** I eat other sages alive most of the time.

 

Yeah, I think I might have had you in a 1v1 the other day. I think you killed me pretty easily. If it was you, you are the only one who ever cleanses my DoTs...that is such a PIA when you're trying to get a LB to proc!

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I never told YOU what to play. All I was saying is that each class has a defined role to play in a competitive game. Playing something just for fun in regs is fine but that's not ehat I was talking about. As much as I'd like to play watchman, it's not viable In rateds anymore.

 

My apologies, I was referring to OP with everything past like the first or second paragraph in my post. The part where he tells me to only node guard because I'm an assassin, while he's around dpsing on his sage.

 

And honestly, I completely agree with the bolded part. Some people, however, call out other players and classes for not fullfilling their "role" in regs, while also doing the exact same thing on their own toon. This is what I'm attempting to bring to light, and what was not posted in the OP of this thread.

 

I'm addressing the guys whose name rhymes with shawn...

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Some people, however, call out other players and classes for not fullfilling their "role" in regs, while also doing the exact same thing on their own toon. This is what I'm attempting to bring to light, and what was not posted in the OP of this thread.

 

I will usually ***** in vent when I'm stuck node guarding on my healer or sent or pyro (especially the pyro) -- if there is an assassin or a scrapper/dirty fighting scoundrel in the grp. no offense, but it's just common sense.

 

my sin is pure dps (full deception, no respec). I even get stuck guarding in ranked matches. I know when I'm on my scrapper/sin that (baring an actual tank sin), I'm the best choice to guard. so yes, I do expect the lone non-healing stealther in a reg to park his butt on the side node and mezz while he calls for help. I also expect him to move around rather than stand in the same fecking place all the time, because he's going to be found out.

 

I wouldn't open a big can of worms about it. I'll usually just ask the guy to do it in ops. if he doesn't then I roll my eyes and continue to waste prime dps guarding with an ewh pyro. but w/e. it's better than two fools guarding one node while down 2 nodes, which happens with a surprising frequency on imp-side CW. and I have no idea why.

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