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Let us make an Petition, West Coast Server.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Let us make an Petition, West Coast Server.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.14.2018 , 08:50 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by Yeldah_ View Post
I am not so eager to surrender. What's more I will keep coming back to remind them of their mistake until I rattle enough brain cells for the development team to see sense. Everyone knows that MORE servers NOT less is key to the games health; regardless of the cost involved. The most appropriate path ahead is rarely the easiest one.
You know itís not the dev team that made that decision? Iím willing to bet my subscriptions that the Devs would prefer servers in each region and possibly even argued against the moves.

Itís always been the EA bean counters that make strategic decisions to remove/move servers from locations.

Itís one of the reasons they closed the APAC servers. When they did so, they lost most of the APAC players. And I can tell you as someone who played on APAC every day of the week, that we had a similar amount of players as what Satele Shan currently does and the other 2 servers had similar numbers to what Shadowlands did before the last merge. All APAC players wanted and stupidly asked for (probably should have stayed quiet), was for one super server for APAC, which would have given us more people on the one server than is currently playing on Star Forge.
EA saw it as an opportunity to cut costs and the bean counters donít understand that increased lag leads to less enjoyment and makes people leave. You can guarantee those peopleís bonuses arenít linked to player retention.

EA, not Bioware and especially not the dev team, have zero control over the server locations. I believe this is why Keith probably stayed quiet about the moves until they were done. I would say he initially asked them to merge the west and east coast servers into one per coast and didnít realise that EA would just move them all to one data Centre. Itís also possible the reason we have 2 servers instead of one because EA only read Keithís business proposal to merge servers and have only 2, as just having 2 servers and they disregarded needing to have them in two regions.

What you need to understand is EA are basically an adventure capitalist setup that invests in studios they buy for the intellectual property and the profits they can make for their share holders. They arenít gamers, they arenít a customer focused business and they donít care what we require to play the games. As long as they maximise profits and donít lose money, players/customers are fodder to be exploited for their shareholders.

Itís why they buy studios, run good games into the ground and move on. EA have a track record of doing this over the last 20 years. Do a google search and you will see the way they have applied this policy and destroyed basically every successful game/studio theyíve acquired.
You only need to look at how they panicked when swtor didnít pay for itself in the first month. They quickly switched to F2P and added a cash shop. Sacked or moved most of the talent out of the game or studio and pulled a majority of the funding from the game. Sadly the game had paid for itself in first 6 months, but EA had lost interest because it wasnít another WoW straight out of the gate.

All of this is public record. You only need to put the pieces together to see how EA have systematically reduced funding and resources from this game over the last 6 years. Swtor was easily paying for itself, but EA wanted more profit from the revenue. The way they see it, cutting costs gives them more profit in the short term, which suits their investors and their corporate pay bonuses for that quarter.

Itís when you understand all of that, you can see that we will never get them to move the server back to the west coast. Keith isnít dumb, he knows we need better ping and regional server because heís a fellow gamer. But he probably knows it would be a losing battle and would be a waste of his time and energy to try. He may have even asked after people started to abondon the game because of the move. We will never know, but I am willing to bet he didnít want the servers moved to the same location. So trying to ďrattle his brain cellsĒ or saying he has the power to change it is pointless. Itís not the Devs who can make this happen. Only EA execs can make it happen and they donít read swtor forums or give a crap if they do.

jimmorrisson's Avatar


jimmorrisson
06.15.2018 , 02:38 AM | #122
This game was better off prior server merge. I suspect that the two east coast server plan was a cost cutting move to impress EA for job promotion purposes.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

As many of you know, on Tuesday Keith explained that in preparation for United Forces we moved all current west coast servers into our Virginia data center. Hereís some of the key questions we have received about the North American datacenter change:

Why not communicate this ahead of time?
We made the decision to not communicate this information ahead of time because we wanted you to have the ability to immediately login and determine the impact to your gameplay experience. This meant we could quickly start gathering feedback on what you were seeing in-game (more on this in the next question). However, we have seen posts from players who made specific decisions based on location (such as character transfers) and we will be in touch with them to discuss. To ensure there is no confusion about this update in-game, we adjusted the server selection screen to reflect that all NA servers are on the east coast.

My ping has gone up since the change and it is affecting my gameplay, what options do I have?
Please continue to report it! As Keith mentioned in his forum post this is something we are actively tracking and working with our network partners to address where possible. We will be working through this especially over the next two weeks as we ramp up to United Forces.

Could there be one data center in the Central US so that pings are more even for each coast?
Creating an entirely new datacenter is a daunting task, even above and beyond the substantial changes we have already made this year. This just isnít something that was viable in the scope of the changes we made for United Forces.

Since all of NA is in one datacenter, shouldnít we just have one server?
Moving all of NA together would create a very heavily populated server. This would introduce several challenges: 1) Players would likely experience queues accessing the server and 2) It would increase the chances for server instability and downtime. There are also a variety of other issues, but a key concern was combining all of North America would result in substantially more character name collisions.

We hope this answers some of your questions and lets you know whatís going to happen over the next couple weeks. Please remember, on November 8th we will move all players to their new servers during an extended maintenance (currently looking like 12 hours). We are also discussing starting a few hours earlier than usual (e.g., 2 or 3am CT), but will let you know a few days beforehand.

Thanks everyone.

-eric

Yeldah_'s Avatar


Yeldah_
06.15.2018 , 05:54 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
You know itís not the dev team that made that decision? Iím willing to bet my subscriptions that the Devs would prefer servers in each region and possibly even argued against the moves.

Itís always been the EA bean counters that make strategic decisions to remove/move servers from locations.

Itís one of the reasons they closed the APAC servers. When they did so, they lost most of the APAC players. And I can tell you as someone who played on APAC every day of the week, that we had a similar amount of players as what Satele Shan currently does and the other 2 servers had similar numbers to what Shadowlands did before the last merge. All APAC players wanted and stupidly asked for (probably should have stayed quiet), was for one super server for APAC, which would have given us more people on the one server than is currently playing on Star Forge.
EA saw it as an opportunity to cut costs and the bean counters donít understand that increased lag leads to less enjoyment and makes people leave. You can guarantee those peopleís bonuses arenít linked to player retention.

EA, not Bioware and especially not the dev team, have zero control over the server locations. I believe this is why Keith probably stayed quiet about the moves until they were done. I would say he initially asked them to merge the west and east coast servers into one per coast and didnít realise that EA would just move them all to one data Centre. Itís also possible the reason we have 2 servers instead of one because EA only read Keithís business proposal to merge servers and have only 2, as just having 2 servers and they disregarded needing to have them in two regions.

What you need to understand is EA are basically an adventure capitalist setup that invests in studios they buy for the intellectual property and the profits they can make for their share holders. They arenít gamers, they arenít a customer focused business and they donít care what we require to play the games. As long as they maximise profits and donít lose money, players/customers are fodder to be exploited for their shareholders.

Itís why they buy studios, run good games into the ground and move on. EA have a track record of doing this over the last 20 years. Do a google search and you will see the way they have applied this policy and destroyed basically every successful game/studio theyíve acquired.
You only need to look at how they panicked when swtor didnít pay for itself in the first month. They quickly switched to F2P and added a cash shop. Sacked or moved most of the talent out of the game or studio and pulled a majority of the funding from the game. Sadly the game had paid for itself in first 6 months, but EA had lost interest because it wasnít another WoW straight out of the gate.

All of this is public record. You only need to put the pieces together to see how EA have systematically reduced funding and resources from this game over the last 6 years. Swtor was easily paying for itself, but EA wanted more profit from the revenue. The way they see it, cutting costs gives them more profit in the short term, which suits their investors and their corporate pay bonuses for that quarter.

Itís when you understand all of that, you can see that we will never get them to move the server back to the west coast. Keith isnít dumb, he knows we need better ping and regional server because heís a fellow gamer. But he probably knows it would be a losing battle and would be a waste of his time and energy to try. He may have even asked after people started to abondon the game because of the move. We will never know, but I am willing to bet he didnít want the servers moved to the same location. So trying to ďrattle his brain cellsĒ or saying he has the power to change it is pointless. Itís not the Devs who can make this happen. Only EA execs can make it happen and they donít read swtor forums or give a crap if they do.
I agree with everything you have said Trixxie, with the exception of one thing. If what you say is true (that EA staff never read forums from this site) and that the development team have no control over vital changes to the game, what is the point of the Star Wars the Old Republic (SWTOR) forums as a mode of communication? Every single gripe on the SWTOR forums since their inception is 100% pointless if the Bio-ware staff in charge of said forums have no power to change anything. What we are relying on here is that gripes go up the chain. The players gripe to Eric and Keith, they gripe to their superiors etc. etc. This goes on (in theory) until it hits someone in Electronic Arts headquarters who can actually do something. We are all here to try and make things happen. Even if you think this is a losing battle (likely) nothing will change unless we try.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.16.2018 , 03:18 AM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by Yeldah_ View Post
I agree with everything you have said Trixxie, with the exception of one thing. If what you say is true (that EA staff never read forums from this site) and that the development team have no control over vital changes to the game, what is the point of the Star Wars the Old Republic (SWTOR) forums as a mode of communication?
The forums are mainly so players have a place they think they can QQ at the Devs and each other. Most of the feed back weíve provided in the last 6 years is ignored like the players base doesnít count.
We occasionally get thrown a bone, but my guess that only happens when the Devs are already thinking along those lines.
For many years before Keith took over, communication from the Devs was nearly non existent on this forum,
Most of the dev posts are to ďtellĒ how it is, like a dictatorship. At least thatís how it was when Ben was in charge,

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeldah_ View Post
Every single gripe on the SWTOR forums since their inception is 100% pointless if the Bio-ware staff in charge of said forums have no power to change anything. What we are relying on here is that gripes go up the chain. The players gripe to Eric and Keith, they gripe to their superiors etc. etc. This goes on (in theory) until it hits someone in Electronic Arts headquarters who can actually do something. We are all here to try and make things happen. Even if you think this is a losing battle (likely) nothing will change unless we try.
Like I said in my other post, the guys at the EA office donít care about the players or gamers. It doesnít matter what the dev team say to accountant, all he is looking at is his spread sheet for the next 3 months.
Yes, the Devs still have some creative control over content, but they have zero control or influence when it comes to cost or funding. They get told how it is and have to work within the constraints put on them.
Things like server farms, data centres and locations are completely out of their hands and except for suggestions at the time of it happening, they are wasting their own time trying to push it up the food chain.
Keith can see the players leaving, he must know that some of that isnthe forced relocation. Iím sure heís even said to them, ďI told you soĒ. But it would have been brushed off because of the contracts signed and money spent on the data centre. EA just donít care. Itís been proven over and over. They donít even care about their own studios and staff when they can make some extra profit from closing them down. What makes you think they care what Kieth says.

BadHoneyBadger's Avatar


BadHoneyBadger
06.16.2018 , 05:53 PM | #125
And demand the following:
1. 1 West Coast Server
2. If this is not possible, an clear and honest answer, why not?
- Do livestream it, and mainly Keith should do this.
- Also tell what options are on the table and how much you think you can reduce the ping for these people.

1) Demand all you want because this is not going to happen. Its like asking a company on the edge of bankrupting for a raise. They are one more bad game away from closing the door as a whole. They are running SWTOR on the east coast because demographically it is cheaper (smart move). The servers or rather the facilities that were used to run the game are either prepped or are being prepped for another game.

2) Why would you demand that Keith do this he is not even involved with any decision making but rather him and the other forum devs catch the blunt end of being verbally assaulted. At one time one of them was even receiving threatening phone calls at his personal house from players. They have said man times in their stream that they do not have answers because the company completely lacks transparency even with their employees.

3) Whiny Children-
- why can't we have same sex romances
- it's not fair 1 class can beat another in pvp
- I'm mad this part of the story didn't end this way
- threads like this one
- ect aka 90% of the general forums
Like kids not getting their way. They made improvements to the game 10% whined and they listened, then 20%, 30%, and so on. And people wonder why they don't communicate more with the player base?

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
06.16.2018 , 07:11 PM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by BadHoneyBadger View Post
And demand the following:
1. 1 West Coast Server
2. If this is not possible, an clear and honest answer, why not?
- Do livestream it, and mainly Keith should do this.
- Also tell what options are on the table and how much you think you can reduce the ping for these people.

1) Demand all you want because this is not going to happen. Its like asking a company on the edge of bankrupting for a raise. They are one more bad game away from closing the door as a whole. They are running SWTOR on the east coast because demographically it is cheaper (smart move). The servers or rather the facilities that were used to run the game are either prepped or are being prepped for another game.

2) Why would you demand that Keith do this he is not even involved with any decision making but rather him and the other forum devs catch the blunt end of being verbally assaulted. At one time one of them was even receiving threatening phone calls at his personal house from players. They have said man times in their stream that they do not have answers because the company completely lacks transparency even with their employees.

3) Whiny Children-
- why can't we have same sex romances
- it's not fair 1 class can beat another in pvp
- I'm mad this part of the story didn't end this way
- threads like this one
- ect aka 90% of the general forums
Like kids not getting their way. They made improvements to the game 10% whined and they listened, then 20%, 30%, and so on. And people wonder why they don't communicate more with the player base?
I could be wrong here, this is pure speculation but if they felt they needed to close a server on one of the coasts they may have opted to close the west coast because there is a far larger population on the east coast compared to the west coast. The west coast is home to 50 million people while the east coast is home to 112 million people, making the east coast population over twice the size of the west coast.

I'm not saying the handled it well, they shouldn't have sprung that on players the last minute, but assumption a close down was fiscally necessary from their point of view there are likely significantly more subscribers on the East Coast than on the West Coast.

I agree with Trixxie though, it isn't BW, none of it is, its all about EA's BS. BW makes some seriously great games, I don't think this is what they would have wanted for this game if it was all up to them which it isn't, unfortunately for us. Nothing is going to change. EA does not care, they don't need to, they could lose half their interests and they would still be rich as all hell. They're like Disney, you can't hurt them and they both suck at Star Wars and were the worst thing to happen to it.

You couldn't pay me to play Anthem. F Electronic Arts.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.16.2018 , 09:19 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by BadHoneyBadger View Post
And demand the following:
1. 1 West Coast Server
2. If this is not possible, an clear and honest answer, why not?
- Do livestream it, and mainly Keith should do this.
- Also tell what options are on the table and how much you think you can reduce the ping for these people.

1) Demand all you want because this is not going to happen. Its like asking a company on the edge of bankrupting for a raise. They are one more bad game away from closing the door as a whole. They are running SWTOR on the east coast because demographically it is cheaper (smart move). The servers or rather the facilities that were used to run the game are either prepped or are being prepped for another game.

2) Why would you demand that Keith do this he is not even involved with any decision making but rather him and the other forum devs catch the blunt end of being verbally assaulted. At one time one of them was even receiving threatening phone calls at his personal house from players. They have said man times in their stream that they do not have answers because the company completely lacks transparency even with their employees.

3) Whiny Children-
- why can't we have same sex romances
- it's not fair 1 class can beat another in pvp
- I'm mad this part of the story didn't end this way
- threads like this one
- ect aka 90% of the general forums
Like kids not getting their way. They made improvements to the game 10% whined and they listened, then 20%, 30%, and so on. And people wonder why they don't communicate more with the player base?
The only thing they can do to reduce the Ping has has already been done after the moves.

The only thing players can do is use a gaming VPN like WTFast. It reduces mine between 40-60ms

jimmorrisson's Avatar


jimmorrisson
06.18.2018 , 09:38 PM | #128
Everytime there is live stream or interview bring up west coast server

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.19.2018 , 03:40 AM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmorrisson View Post
Everytime there is live stream or interview bring up west coast server
What, so they can just ignore it like they did during and after the move

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
06.19.2018 , 12:02 PM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
You know itís not the dev team that made that decision? Iím willing to bet my subscriptions that the Devs would prefer servers in each region and possibly even argued against the moves.
You might, or might not, be right about this. No way to tell for sure... so this remains speculation that cannot be verified.

Keep in mind everyone.... them consolidating to Virginia is not illogical from an operations perspective. EA, via acquisition of various MMO studios over time... has actually had notable server assets in Virginia for close to 20 years now (starting all the way back when Mythic was independent and home based there). conversely, they have never really had long term infrastructure in California...... even though they have a headquarters presence in Redwood City.

A west coast server provides.. at best.... a 60ms improvement in route times. If 60 ms makes or breaks your game play.... well... I disagree for the most part. I do agree that for some APAC localized players it may have pushed you over a tipping point.... but there are more issues with route times from APAC than just server location on East coast rather than West coast. And any West coast player claiming they cannot play adequately on an East coast server is just silly.

There is a player based reason in some cases for a West coast server... players being players ... but I do not see any rational business reason to maintain infrastructure on the west coast for one single server.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.