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To those against F2P...


LordSkyKnight's Avatar


LordSkyKnight
08.11.2012 , 12:28 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Zwipe View Post
Just because it doesnt have 10 million subs and 8+ years worth of content doesn't make an mmo a failure. Actually, the ones who were really kidding themselves were the ones who expected SWTOR to be some kind of mmo messiah. F2P or not, those who were looking to quit are going to quit no matter what because they plain and simply cannot afford to have 2 gaming subs.
You are right about the success rate vs sub numbers. But there is something you are forgetting. The amount of money, resources, and people they spent on making this game was way higher than any other game from before. When you compare it to that, it was a total failure.

They should change the name of the term this game will become. Free to play. It's a trick really if you think about it and rather clever. They make you think you are playing the game for free but in fact they are controlling you and forcing you to buy stuff from the cash shop to continue to play the game.

jason_ralph's Avatar


jason_ralph
08.11.2012 , 12:28 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by flyersfan View Post
Why what made it worse? Was there something that was added that you didn't like? Was there some kind of intense change in the gameplay? I'd really appreciate some explanation other than "made it worse," "it was bad," or "I don't like this." Otherwise, I just presume that you say it's worse because everyone else told you that that's how you should feel. I really see no reasons on the horizon that would make TOR instantly worse on the day the free-to-play option is added to the game.
When you start having to pay for everything little thing in a game, that's bad. And when that happens to justify a $14.99 charge a month, it's time to move on. In the end, F2P is a scam. It's free to download. Free to login. But pretty much everything after that point you have to pay. Otherwise, you'll be constantly frustrated as you try to progress, in a supposedly "free" game.
(over heard on a bounty hunter's star ship)
"You took down the Mandalorian Killer?".
"Yep. Blasted him and the star ship he flew in on".

Arvig's Avatar


Arvig
08.11.2012 , 12:53 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Zwipe View Post
Just curious, who has actually played a F2P mmo on an at least semi-committed schedule? I've played a couple sub-based MMO's that went FTP, and they actually improved a lot over their prior sub-based models (regular content additions, smaller but more productive community, etc.), which is why I have trouble understanding all the F2P bashing.

Maybe I just got lucky in my choices, but how did F2P leave such bad taste in your mouths?
I also played a Sub based MMO that went F2p late last year, my experience though was less then positive compared to yours. They also had a RMT store but unlike this game, the store existed for a couple years before it went f2p. The store also basically sells fluff items and gives a second way other then the game's webpage to do some account services (like pay for a subscription or one time fees to unlock content, pay for a server transfer, etc). Only items with stats were basically consumable items or temporary items, not counting some mounts that yes had stats, but nothing greater then any stats found on mounts that could be bought from the stables or quested for /dropped from a mob in game. (In fact quested mounts/dropped mounts usually had the best stats).

Anyway, what I personally saw:

1) Developers, although they did still put out "real" content, focus now more on RMT items for development more so then real content.
2) Community has possibly held steady, maybe even gone up in population (I don't have exact numbers) but a much larger percentage of the community has played for six months or less. Otherwise, due to issues like #1 and others, a good percentage of the "old timers" have left. Not saying a community of all newer players is bad per-se, but it does indicate that they will possibly have issues with regards to people continuing to play for more then a few months.
3) A good percentage of people come on to play f2p, then quit when they hit a point where they must either subscribe or start paying one time fees to unlock content to continue. Again, people might get an account, but are less likely to stick with the game in the long term.
4) Maybe not a reason to dislike f2p per-se, but f2p doesn't mean "free" to play the whole game. A LOT of things are locked in the game I am mentioning, such as end game content, item quality (Imagine only being able to wear greeen quality items in SWTOR, the lock is about the same in the other game), total amount of slots one can use, total amount of money one can have, total amount of inventory space in their bank and character sheet one can have, most classes and races are locked, and so forth.
5) This actually didn't happen with the game I saw go f2p, they actually do keep their RTM store mostly fluff items and consumables, along with some account services that cost the same if done via the RTM store as opposed to via their website. But I would be concerned that they start putting items with stats on the RTM store, thus making this game slowly become "play to win" and/or have a huge easymode button for those with the largest wallet.

Mind you, I'm actually FOR having f2p having many, possibly most features crippled or disabled if one never pays to unlock ifeatures or get a subscription. But I think too many people think f2p means never having to pay anything, period.

There's other issues for me, but that's a start.

Now will I just /ragequit the morning this game goes f2p? No. But I will be wary and concerned that the issues that I descibe will happen here. I'm hoping they don't, I'm not truly hating f2p as much as my one experience with it was less then positive.

Zwipe's Avatar


Zwipe
08.11.2012 , 01:04 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by LordSkyKnight View Post
You are right about the success rate vs sub numbers. But there is something you are forgetting. The amount of money, resources, and people they spent on making this game was way higher than any other game from before. When you compare it to that, it was a total failure.

They should change the name of the term this game will become. Free to play. It's a trick really if you think about it and rather clever. They make you think you are playing the game for free but in fact they are controlling you and forcing you to buy stuff from the cash shop to continue to play the game.
You're right about the term F2P, when its actually more like endless trial, or pay as you go.

Even though they spent a ridiculous amount to make this game, i'm sure they were a lot more entities expecting big cuts off the immediate profits than other mmo makers have to deal with. (EA, marketing, Lucas,etc.)

Despite all the naysaying, the fact they are moving to a F2P model shows they have SOME kind of long term plan to keep the game alive. Thats a hell of a lot better than pulling the plug on the SWTOR franchise.

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
08.11.2012 , 01:16 AM | #25
I am currently an active subscriber in a F2P MMO. I never considered about the F2P option for a second.
"What is a Sith? Over time, the beliefs have changed, but one constant has remained. The imposition of one's will on the force, on the environment surrounding one, on the galaxy itself." - Darth Wyyrlok III

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
08.11.2012 , 01:19 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Zwipe View Post
Just curious, who has actually played a F2P mmo on an at least semi-committed schedule? I've played a couple sub-based MMO's that went FTP, and they actually improved a lot over their prior sub-based models (regular content additions, smaller but more productive community, etc.), which is why I have trouble understanding all the F2P bashing.

Maybe I just got lucky in my choices, but how did F2P leave such bad taste in your mouths?

Which ones?

None of the ones I've played have "improved", they've just "survived" (which is a completely different thing).

(actually no arguably DDO "improved", however that was always built like a F2P MMORPG which was part of the reason it bombed as a sub based one and had 3 players left when it went F2P).
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
08.11.2012 , 01:20 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by kiolov View Post
i have played some free to play games. generaly they cost more then sub base games for less content, less customer service, and less updates.
This is the potential downfall, because "Free to Play" is a massive misnomer, really it's the Cashshop model.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

AidenCast's Avatar


AidenCast
08.11.2012 , 01:21 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by flyersfan View Post
Why what made it worse? Was there something that was added that you didn't like? Was there some kind of intense change in the gameplay? I'd really appreciate some explanation other than "made it worse," "it was bad," or "I don't like this." Otherwise, I just presume that you say it's worse because everyone else told you that that's how you should feel. I really see no reasons on the horizon that would make TOR instantly worse on the day the free-to-play option is added to the game.
The fact that the majority of new content was poorly designed with long periods between updates of any substance (i.e. not just ones containing store shinies), very grind orientated and designed to push people into the cash shop. Also a matter of particular concern for people who want to keep subscribing to TOR is the now purged Turbine statements that the sub payers game would be unaffected by F2P. Originally we were told that we could get any character improving items in game as sub payers and wouldn't need to use the store.
The first break of this was stat tomes which were in fairness in game but at such an insanely low drop rate that even if you ground instances 12 hours a day you would had next to no chance of getting a drop, thus making the only viable method of getting them, you guessed it, the store. Before the Turdbine apologists jump in pointing out that since the cap on stats has been removed with RoI these no longer make a massive difference, maybe not but they did when they were originally released and were definitely against the spirit of what developers originally claimed.
Since then they got bored with even keeping up that pretence and put in high quality healing pot that did not share cooldown with those obtained in game. You used to get your relics (slotted items) from Legendary items returned automatically when you broke them up, now they get destroyed along with the LI unless you buy a scroll from the store to save them. Basically what you will see over time in all likelyhood is the slow slide of previous in-game items and mechanisms into the store as they become harder to obtain by gameplay alone or become store only.

This may be fine in a pure F2P model but when sub-payers find the company trying to milk them via the store on top of their sub it starts to grate somewhat. I'd compare letting games companies have cash stores in games as giving a small child the key to a sweetshop and telling them not to use it.
Cancelled 1/8/12
RIP TOR - Another casualty of F2P

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
08.11.2012 , 01:22 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Zwipe View Post
I like the idea of having dedicated servers for subscribers.
If the F2P/cashshop sides takes off then subscriber server may become a lonely place indeed.

If the F2P/cashshop doesn't take off, then conversely all server might be.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Reble-Dog-Squad's Avatar


Reble-Dog-Squad
08.11.2012 , 02:01 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
If the F2P/cashshop sides takes off then subscriber server may become a lonely place indeed.

If the F2P/cashshop doesn't take off, then conversely all server might be.
How would a subscriber server fail if F2P/Cash shop is successful? the Cash shop will be there for both Subscriber and Free loader as well, why do you think that those that are still subscribing will get a Cartel Coins each month?
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