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Congratulations for lvl 50! Here is your ticket to Azeroth, enjoy your flight!


Stradlin

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My original thread got locked due to "Unspecified copmparsions between two games"

 

In cosy TLDR (ok it isnt that TL;DR anymore!) fashion, I adjusted my comparsions every bit as specified as I possibly can.

- - -

I present you a question!

Is it end game of TOR or WoW I speak of here?

 

Any combination of questing, dungeons and PvP took you to max. lvl! Congratulations!

 

Here is your schedule for future:

 

  • Grind repeatable daily quest chains for tokens you use to buy gear and various vanity items.
  • Spend a little time gearing up in max. lvl normal dungeons, then move to hard modes of the said dungeons. While doing so you keep getting various tokens you can use to buy better gear and accessories.
  • Soon enough you are geared enough for raiding! Normal modes are pretty easy and accessible. Hard mode requires more from you and your guild. More effort, better gear, better tactics.
  • Max. lvl PvP is it's own seperate, isolated entity disconnected from rest of the end game. You grind Warzones for reputation and a currency. You can use this curreny to buy PvP gear. It is a rough start and takes a while til you begin to feel remotely competitive. Better gear you have, less painful it is to grind for more gear.
  • You can also acquire PvP items via a zone dedicated for world PvP. It suffers from balance issues and lag. Actual rewards in no way differ from stuff you get through grind in War Zones.
  • A mechanism is in place to ensure most of the PvE gear doesn't make good PvP gear and vice versa.
  • Even on PvP server, there is nothing in game mechanics that would encourage or suppoort any larger scale World PvP outside one or two zones specially dedicated for it.

 

- - -

 

Now, it has been clear TOR is an MMO of "WoW generation" for a very long time. Devs made this much clear pretty early on temselves. With this in mind, I didn't expect to experience some revolution upon dinging 50. However, it greatly bothers me how typical, average day of typical, average lvl 50 char is more or less identical in both ToR and WoW. I didn't expect a revolution but I did ding 50 hoping and believing TOR's lvl cap would have even a hint of it's own, unique flavor. It does not.

 

TOR's "Gzs on lvl cap! This is how we want you to spend your time now: )"-structure looks like a 1:1 copy of what WoW has to offer. Seriously, it is impossible to create lvl cap experience that would remind more of WoW.

 

Both are amusement park MMORPGs so heaptons of similarities are to be expected.Yet I really dared to hope more flavor of it's own from TOR. Did I miss the memo suggesting the experience at lvl cap in two different MMORPGs should differ less from one another than two multiplayer oriented FPS games differ from one another?

 

It would be really nice to see some well chosen, very determined steps away from this WoW mold in future. Based on how fast Bliz lost subs in middle of Cata's run, It is looking pretty clear people are getting tired of WoW's concept for end game. With this in mind, why on earth should you make a 1:1 copy it? Rather expose and abuse WoW's weaknesses by offering something that feels new and/or different.

Edited by Stradlin
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So your last post was shut down due to comparisons to two games...

and you response with a long comparison rant?

 

No, it was specificially stated it got locked due to unspecified and generalized comparsions and lack of suggestions. I made my comparsions very specified and added suggestions. How is my post unconstructive?

 

Mods and admins of various larger online communities may not have many things in common. I wager one of the few is that they all dislike the !!IBL!! lock inc haha! " deputy sheriff type of posting.

Edited by Stradlin
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My original thread got locked due to "Unspecified copmparsions between two games"

 

In cosy TLDR (ok it isnt that TL;DR anymore!) fashion, I adjusted my comparsions every bit as specified as I possibly can.

- - -

I present you a question!

Is it end game of TOR or WoW I speak of here?

 

Any combination of questing, dungeons and PvP took you to max. lvl! Congratulations!

 

Here is your schedule for future:

 

  • Grind repeatable daily quest chains for tokens you use to buy gear and various vanity items
  • Spend a little time gearing up in max lvl normal dungeons, then move to hard modes of the said dungeons. While doing so, you keep getting various tokens you can use to buy better gear and accessories.
  • Soon enough you are geared enough for raiding! Normal modes are pretty easy and accessible. There is hard mode requiring better gear and more effort
  • Max. lvl PvP is it's own seperate, isolated entity disconnected from rest of the end game. You grind Warzones for reputation and a currency. You can use this curreny to buy PvP gear. It is a rough start and takes a while til you begin to feel remotely competitive. Vetter gear you have, easier it is to grind for the next tier.
  • You can also acquire PvP items in a zone dedicated for world PvP. It suffers from balance issues and lag. Actual rewards in no way differ from stuff you get through War Zones.
  • A mechanism is in place to ensure most of the PvE gear doesn't make good PvP gear and vice versa.
  • Even on PvP server, there is nothing in game mechanics that would encourage or suppoort any larger scale World PvP outside one or two zones specially dedicated for it.

 

- - -

 

Now, it has been clear TOR is an MMO of "WoW generation" for a very long time. Devs made this much clear pretty early on temselves. With this in mind, I didn't expect to experience some revolution upon dinging 50. However, it greatly bothers me how typical, average day of typical, average lvl 50 char is more or less identical in both ToR and WoW. I didn't expect a revolution but I did ding 50 hoping and believing TOR's lvl cap would have even a hint of it's own, unique flavor. It does not.

 

TOR's "Gzs on lvl cap! This is how we want you to spend your time now: )"-structure looks like a 1:1 copy of what WoW has to offer. Seriously, it is impossible to create lvl cap experience that would remind more of WoW.

 

Both are amusement park MMORPGs so heaptons of similarities are to be expected.Yet I really dared to hope little much more flavor of it's own from TOR. Did I miss the memo suggesting two MMORPGs should differ less from one another than two multiplayer oriented FPS games?

 

It would be really nice to see some well chosen, very determined steps away from this in future. It is looking pretty clear people are getting tired of WoW's concept for end game. With this in mind, why on earth should you make a 1:1 copy it? Rather expose and abuse it's weaknesses by offering something that feels new and/or different.

 

 

Welcome to MMO's enjoy max level pro tip wow was not the first to do this

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There are things in this game that make me want to rip out my hair.

 

There are things in WoW that make me want to do the same.

 

Generally, online games such as ToR and WoW both have little quips saying something to the effect of " Online experience may change during play".

 

The games a little more than a month old. There is code to write, things to iron out while the servers are operating, and I'm sure CEO's to please.

 

Although the level cap being 50 did surprise me a bit, I've also noticed it takes me twice as long to level here than it does in WoW, so I suppose it evens out. I'm sure with patches, expansions etc things will grow into what most are looking for in an MMO.

 

When WoW started, 60 was the cap, we had like 4 dungeons, a couple of cities, no battlegrounds, and mounts were a pipe dream unless you were a level 40 with thousands of gold.

Anyone with a desire to dungeon dive sat in General chat "Looking for a group".

 

We had to walk to school barefoot, in the snow, uphill BOTH WAYS....wait...sorry that's another story....

 

Anyway...

 

As time went on, Azeroth grew. Its lore grew and things evolved. I suspect that will happen here. Should they take 7 years as well? Hell no. They should learn from Blizzard and implement things faster. But that also doesn't mean tomorrow.

 

Give them time. Bioware is one of the best for a reason.

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l pro tip wow was not the first to do this

 

Yet it is often used as an example in countless threads for countless reasons. Why?`because it is a language more or less all wil understand.

Your point is about as valid as " pro tip English not first language out there speak Latin, it more OG?" would have been.

 

You could always use Ultima Online or SWG or Ashenron's Call or whatever as an example, but it would mean litle to nothing for vast majority. Use something in WoW, and like half of the people reading these forums know exactly what the guy doing the comparsion is saying.

Edited by Stradlin
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See sig.

 

/thread

 

This thread is about end game, so go /threading in threads were your sig isn't off topic.

 

I like TOR pretty much and want to like it much more. This is why I'm pretty eager to be proven wrong here, " shown the light" so to speak. With that in mind, it is mildly depressing al replies I'm getting consist of /threads and "IBLs" and " dont like it, geeet out" type of drivel:l Would be nice if my points were easier to argue against really!

Edited by Stradlin
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My original thread got locked due to "Unspecified copmparsions between two games"

 

In cosy TLDR (ok it isnt that TL;DR anymore!) fashion, I adjusted my comparsions every bit as specified as I possibly can.

- - -

I present you a question!

Is it end game of TOR or WoW I speak of here?

 

Any combination of questing, dungeons and PvP took you to max. lvl! Congratulations!

 

Here is your schedule for future:

 

  • Grind repeatable daily quest chains for tokens you use to buy gear and various vanity items
  • Spend a little time gearing up in max lvl normal dungeons, then move to hard modes of the said dungeons. While doing so, you keep getting various tokens you can use to buy better gear and accessories.
  • Soon enough you are geared enough for raiding! Normal modes are pretty easy and accessible. There is hard mode requiring better gear and more effort
  • Max. lvl PvP is it's own seperate, isolated entity disconnected from rest of the end game. You grind Warzones for reputation and a currency. You can use this curreny to buy PvP gear. It is a rough start and takes a while til you begin to feel remotely competitive. Vetter gear you have, easier it is to grind for the next tier.
  • You can also acquire PvP items in a zone dedicated for world PvP. It suffers from balance issues and lag. Actual rewards in no way differ from stuff you get through War Zones.
  • A mechanism is in place to ensure most of the PvE gear doesn't make good PvP gear and vice versa.
  • Even on PvP server, there is nothing in game mechanics that would encourage or suppoort any larger scale World PvP outside one or two zones specially dedicated for it.

 

- - -

 

Are you talking about WoW or TOR? :)

Edited by GameNirvana
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This thread is about end game, so go /threading in threads were your sig isn't off topic.

 

I like TOR pretty much and want to like it much more. This is why I'm pretty eager to be proven wrong here, " shown the light" so to speak. With that in mind, it is mildly depressing al replies I'm getting consist of /threads and "IBLs" and " dont like it, geeet out" type of drivel:l Would be nice if my points were easier to argue against really!

 

My sig is entirely on topic. Plenty of people (myself included) are enjoying endgame thoroughly, by simply not playing it 4+ hours a day like normal human beings.

 

Point is, you can complain all you want about endgame this, endgame that... but in the end this game succeeds because it starts at level ONE. Not fifty.

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A few 'sandbox' features would set it apart surely?

 

Full space simulator (exploration, free movement etc)

Player housing (even if only inside the ships)

 

Currently enjoying the game as it is but the 2 ideas I mentioned above would have me foaming at the mouth with glee.

Edited by Jamus_Divinus
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This.

 

Also known as reductio ad absurdum.

 

If you play game you must enjoy game.

If you enjoy game you must play game.

 

If you do not enjoy game, do not play game.

 

Granted, the OP's argument was somewhere in the realm of non-sequiteruan strawman, but please, stop answering logical fallacies with more logical fallacies.

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As time went on, Azeroth grew. Its lore grew and things evolved. I suspect that will happen here. Should they take 7 years as well? Hell no. They should learn from Blizzard and implement things faster. But that also doesn't mean tomorrow.

 

I agree with much in your post but but!

When it comes to end game, Azeroth hasn't really evolved anywhere in a good while now. That is part of TOR's issue too. Basic structure of end game in WoW has been more or less exactly what it is today for at least 5 years. People are tired of it. Only real change I can think of from top of my head has to do with accessibility. (As in, Bliz assumes all casual players are one armed ADHD kids who die IRL if the game they play actually challenges them in any way ever)

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so how would you 'fix' the problem you posted about? I can understand your post, but you didn't mention how you'd fix it.

 

I like the idea of doing dailies to get free credits and getting mods for orange gear (sucks to be cybertech however).

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A few 'sandbox' features would set it apart surely?

 

Full space simluator (exploration, free movement etc)

Player housing (even if only inside the ships)

 

Currently enjoying the game as it is but the 2 ideas I mentioned above would have me foaming at the mouth with glee.

 

Agreed.. In perfectr world, BW stops emulating Blizzard's WoW and looks in direction of SWG, Eve Online and other sandboxes.

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You are right! WoW is amazing! End game is amazing! Dragon Soul! What is better than being dropped in a box that has a few mobs in it? I'll tell you what. Multiple that times "8". Sweetest end game content EVER! On top of that you get to GRIND for awesome pets/mounts from DMF, until what? November? So, you have DS (box X8) and DMF for 8-9 months. WoW is truely the end all, be all of non-boring gaming. Edited by SymbioticDJK
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all MMO will be pretty much the same in the end. some variations here and there. The game does come to an end till new content is dropped then you do it again and again. but if you want a game that is nothing like wow as u want. then dont ever play an MMO again its pretty simple i think. but if you want an MMO that isnt as boring as wow then play this. atleast this way you can enjoy a new story. a different pvp system. some slightly different mechanics. O and yes this basically the vanilla version of wow. which is basically an MMO.

 

Seriously its like arguing what a tv is. its LED> LCD PLasma->big ole'tube tv's with the Knobs. it dont matter its still a tv. its a little different but its still a tv.

 

Its obvious y ur first post was shut down. it was pointless to argue it.

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so how would you 'fix' the problem you posted about? I can understand your post, but you didn't mention how you'd fix it.

 

I like the idea of doing dailies to get free credits and getting mods for orange gear (sucks to be cybertech however).

 

I do really think taking elements from Sandboxes would be the way to go. Most people have never tried a sandbox MMO. Even less have tried ne that is functional! Some marriage of sandbox and amusement park could well make them scarred WoW vets less prone to get tired of TOR.

 

Bioware spend significant part of dev time going " Ok..this is what WoW did. It brought them 12 million players. Time to do some cloning" IMO It'd really make a very cool formula if they now turned 180 degrees and went in opposing direction, bring in stuff WoW either doesn't do at all or does poorly.

 

Dynamic content. Some way for players and guilds to carve their mark and/or gain influence within world in fashion game supports and recognizes. Housing(Own ship is a step to this direction for sure) and guild housing prolly makes easiest, most obvious example. Functional, active and entertaining world PvP that gives players feeling they are figting for something that actually matters.

Edited by Stradlin
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